" My Take On Things "

Hi all,

This is a follow on post from last nights thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40298

Just felt I had to post again, as I feel really strongly about the way our club is going at the moment.

Last night I went to the Scottish league 1 game between Dundee and Dunfermline. The stadium, was an absolute wreck - but at the same time beautiful. It was like a throwback to the 90's visiting rundown derelict grounds across the country like Cheltenham, Brentford and Colchester. I loved it.

Upon entering the stadium, I was truely shocked. £19 to go in their equivalent of the Bob Bank [which didn't even have toilets] very steep I thought, but paid it through gritted teeth.

In all honesty, if I would of known what type of night I was to have - I would of paid DOUBLE.

For a crowd of just under 4500 - the atmosphere was breathtaking. It really shocked me as to how passionate and energetic the fans were. Literally, the whole stand I was in would sing non stop with passion and volume.

They also had a massive catalogue of songs to sing, even larger than ours and every song they sang was pumping. There couldn't of been many more than 1500-2000 on my terrace but I tell you something. They were LOUD!!!

As for the game itself, it shocked me just how decent the standard of football was. Some tidy players in both sides... and then there was Rhys Weston who I recognised not long after kick off.

On top of the decent performances, the one thing that stood out for me was just how hard the players worked. Every single man on the pitch worked his nuts off. It was an absolute dogfight. Hounding each other, chasing the ball down, tirelessly sprinting to track back or win the wall back, flying into challenges and all in good spirit too. Every player on both sides, literally worked their nuts off. I'd never seen nothing like it.

Another thing I noticed from the fans was that there was barely any negativity at all, at times Dundee were dire and not in the game - but they kept supporting them. When Dunfermline scored the opener, the Dundee fans were silenced - for about 30 seconds - before breaking into song - this point was one of their liveliest, loudest and most passionate moments of the entire night, it was amazing.

All in all it was an amazing night and I've now a massive soft spot for Dundee and Scottish Football. I'd heard that Scottish football was dieing, a poor standard, a joke and a waste of time. These were not my observations, Scottish Football is alive and well - in actual fact its more like a roaring, screaming, fire breathing dragon thats been blessed with eternal life!

Back at my hotel, I couldn't help but reflect on the evening and comparing the plight of Dundee to our own. It really got me thinking. How can players [some in their late30's] run tirelessly for 90 minutes at an INSANE pace, when the likes of Bothroyd phases out after 70 odd looking tired.

How can these boys on a few hundread quid a week outwork, show more heart and passionate than the players we have?

I came up with two answers.

The first of all is that the players we have are clearly overpaid, their life is too comfortable, too easy and they have nothing to be concerned about and no reason to work hard. They still pickup the pay check. Dundee players on the other hand realise that if Dundee were to be relegated - theres a good chance their career is over or they would have to go part time - what an incentive to play!

Secondly, I strongly believe that the support was a massive factor in the way the clubs performed. It took me back to the passionate city glory days and reminded me of being in an old shithole stand in a shithole stadium somewhere back in the 90's with a big city away following. You can also I guess see the link with how passionate city squads in the past have been compared to now.

Which got me thinking, I do strongly believe one of the main reasons are side lacks heart and passion - is because the fans lack heart and passionate. In general, our support in recent years has been embarrasing. In rare games like Leicester last season when we were down to 10 men defending a lead, the ground was bouncing in the face of adversity and we got the result. I can't say I've seen a repeat of that performance or that atmosphere since.

I genuinely feel whilst the players performances and lack of heart is unacceptable - we also have to look at ourselves and the people around us on matchdays. We could take the side to the Premiership with passion, belief, positivity and NOISE!

My fear is that there are not enough of us left, who appreciate how valuable this is and how big a factor it can play. Not only that - but how proud it makes you feel of supporting a club that is literally soaked in passion.

Sorry for the long post guys, just kinda had to get it off my chest with other boys that I know will totally get where I'm coming from....

When teams play and someone gets sent off, that team is at a massive disadvantage. So when a team tries to play without their 12th man - theres only going to be one outcome...

good post mate...

Thanks mate enjoyed that post it's a real shame that we can't create an atmosphere like the 1 u experienced any more.

REALLY ENJOYED THAT READ

NOW I MISS NINIAN PARK EVEN MORE

Been lurking around your boards from time to time (usually when there's a link from Planet Swans) but never felt the need to register - it's your board, innit

Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your article ...

My mam's from Dundee and we used to go up and visit her family most years when I was a kid in the 70s and early 80s.

Brings back memories of Dens Park ... used to go with my cousin and the place was bouncing back in those days too - pretty sure we were on the now defunct South Terrace ... Proper atmosphere in those days - but still remember the Dundee fans ripping apart one of their own wingers they didn't rate ... never seen a team abuse one of their own as comprehensively before or since ... thought they were a bit harsh, but my cousin who watched him week in week out assured me he deserved it.

My mam and her sister used to go and watch both teams (Dens Park one week, Tannadice the next) as girls - whoever was at home - but was always a Dundee fan first and foremost.

Anyway, you're right about the 12th man ... still miss the North Bank and the Vetch ... and last season at the Liberty sometimes I'd been in libraries with more atmosphere ... at least we're starting to get some singing going again ... next time in Dundee will have to pay another visit to the old ground ...

Although I totally agree with what you've said, whilst we don't have a 12th man this season like years gone by, nor do the away team! And they're always more than up for the game.

Good post 12th man, however, there were loads of times in the 90s we had large away followings and we were still shite.

BARGOEDjack???? mmmm

BARGOEDjack???? mmmm

Born and bred in the West - and you support your local team, don't you? ... then moved to the valleys for work 20 years ago ...

good post m8

Thanks a lot to everyone who took time to read that. It was long winded, but had to get it off my chest.

Also thanks alot bargoedjack who registered after reading the post. It has stunned me just how passionate the locals are about football round here.

Even the glory hunters who support Rangers and Celtic round here are super passionate. They are like a Glory Hunting, Plastic 2.0 model.

Know everything about the clubs and make an effort to try and go to their games as often as possible.

Good read and Dens is a decent place to go these days.

Got to say though, it's only the way it is as a result of the cheating and ripping folk off that Dundee have resorted to.

Will post more later.

Good post mate. I enjoyed the game last night and as a Dunfermline fan as well as Cardiff wondered what you thought of our support?

Cracking post mate and you raised some very good points. I used to love standing on the Old Bob Bank before Rick Wright put the seats in there. My best memories was stood on that Terrace weather it was full to the rafters or just a couple of thousand on there. The maddest time was in 86 when we played Scotland the night Jock Stein died and that atmosphere will remain with me till the day i die. Football is just to nicey nicey now you must sit down singing is frowned on (well it is at our Club) The players are overpaid Prima Donna's. They have or show no passion for the shirt they play for, to them its just a regular job that pays them a mint. Yes its sad but me i haven't given up on getting the atmosphere back it just needs enough fans to say enough is enough and stand sing shout . God i miss the old days but i guess we are just Dinosaurs in a new world

Cracking post mate and you raised some very good points. I used to love standing on the Old Bob Bank before Rick Wright put the seats in there. My best memories was stood on that Terrace weather it was full to the rafters or just a couple of thousand on there. The maddest time was in 86 when we played Scotland the night Jock Stein died and that atmosphere will remain with me till the day i die. Football is just to nicey nicey now you must sit down singing is frowned on (well it is at our Club) The players are overpaid Prima Donna's. They have or show no passion for the shirt they play for, to them its just a regular job that pays them a mint. Yes its sad but me i haven't given up on getting the atmosphere back it just needs enough fans to say enough is enough and stand sing shout . God i miss the old days but i guess we are just Dinosaurs in a new world

That game v Scotland was my first ever football match. It's wierd that I remember it pretty well so I just googled the date and it was in 1985 so I would only have been nine at the time. My dad took me and we stood in the family enclosure which was beneath the grandstand and was full of pissed up Jocks. I stood on a bucket so I could get a view of the game and I remember the atmosphere being amazing too. I think that game got me hooked on Ninian Park because my formative years were then spent standing on the Bob Bank terrace. I actually remember telling my mum that the fenced off corner bit between the Canton Stand and the BB was a children's enclosure so she would let me go to games without an adult and I had to promise to stand in that area ! A few years later in 1991 I went to my first away game in Swansea for the FA cup. I also remember telling my Mum that it would be safe trip because it was only an hour on the train! She didn't know anything about football!

I haven't actually been to the CCS due to living in Aus but it saddens me to think what it might be like compared to NP Came back for the Cup final but obviously that was different. Have loads of great memories of away trips to run down grounds (but full of character) around London when I lived there for Uni. Remember quite a few visits to Barnet, Leyton Orient, Brighton, Brenford, Fulham etc. Awesome atmosphere in the away end at Reading's old ground too for an FA cup tie and a funny trip to Slough Town in the pissing down rain. Great Days

Cracking post mate and you raised some very good points. I used to love standing on the Old Bob Bank before Rick Wright put the seats in there. My best memories was stood on that Terrace weather it was full to the rafters or just a couple of thousand on there. The maddest time was in 86 when we played Scotland the night Jock Stein died and that atmosphere will remain with me till the day i die. Football is just to nicey nicey now you must sit down singing is frowned on (well it is at our Club) The players are overpaid Prima Donna's. They have or show no passion for the shirt they play for, to them its just a regular job that pays them a mint. Yes its sad but me i haven't given up on getting the atmosphere back it just needs enough fans to say enough is enough and stand sing shout . God i miss the old days but i guess we are just Dinosaurs in a new world

That game v Scotland was my first ever football match. It's wierd that I remember it pretty well so I just googled the date and it was in 1985 so I would only have been nine at the time. My dad took me and we stood in the family enclosure which was beneath the grandstand and was full of pissed up Jocks. I stood on a bucket so I could get a view of the game and I remember the atmosphere being amazing too. I think that game got me hooked on Ninian Park because my formative years were then spent standing on the Bob Bank terrace. I actually remember telling my mum that the fenced off corner bit between the Canton Stand and the BB was a children's enclosure so she would let me go to games without an adult and I had to promise to stand in that area ! A few years later in 1991 I went to my first away game in Swansea for the FA cup. I also remember telling my Mum that it would be safe trip because it was only an hour on the train! She didn't know anything about football!

I haven't actually been to the CCS due to living in Aus but it saddens me to think what it might be like compared to NP Came back for the Cup final but obviously that was different. Have loads of great memories of away trips to run down grounds (but full of character) around London when I lived there for Uni. Remember quite a few visits to Barnet, Leyton Orient, Brighton, Brenford, Fulham etc. Awesome atmosphere in the away end at Reading's old ground too for an FA cup tie and a funny trip to Slough Town in the pissing down rain. Great Days

Yeah i was at that FA cup game at Reading what an Evening that was

Great read and i wonder if the passion you write of as gone forever? We are all getting older and as the new fans arrive they have never experienced the type of atmosphere you talk about i remember playing Orient at Ninian Park once and although the crowd was piss poor the atmosphere was fantastic and the Bob Bank was bouncing and this was a relegation battle!

I think there are still pleny of 'old heads' and singers in the CCS who could create some passion but unlike Ninian Park we are now dispersed throughout the stadium and therefore the atmosphere is serverely diluted. Although the Club are trying to do something about it by creating the 'Singing section' in the Canton Stand.

Personally however i don't want to move to the Canton and i fear the atmosphere will take a turn for the worse when they introduce a zero tolerance policy against standing and chanting in the Ninian Stand

Yes Football must move on and new stadiums with better facillities for supporters are a must but somewhere along the line the heart and soul is slowly being sucked from the Club i love

Dundee are in the position they are in because they feel hard done to. Being in administration once again having ripped folk off, and sacked players and managers because they were spending money they didn't have(again). Players and managers who didn't get a penny along with the creditors who got a ridiculous amount of money for what they were owed. They have a very small squad ad have had to pull in retired pro's to make up a squad some days. This has brought the fans together, as they feel as if they have been harshly punished(they were deducted 25 points for the abuse of the rules - or watever way you wish to look at it). Until recently, I have always found them amongst the most fickle fans in Scotland, fans who expect to be in the top division because they were a big team so so long ago. Now, they are all pulling together and it's all down to cheating. Had they been wound up recently, very few would have shed a tear for them up here and in my opinion they are the wrong team to be citing as an example for anything. The board that dragged them down again contained supporters from their trust and if they was willing to let them go down that path, why should they get any sympathy? Again they are putting round the begging bowl expecting help and saying they've been punished unfairly. It's the third time they've been in such a position and it's wrong. Had they been churning along as they were previous to all this coming out, the atmosphere would have been nothing like it was and the fans demanding results. I don't think they would have performed as they have had it not been for what happeend to them.

Good Post. If our team played like that then the support they would get would be unbelievable. Trouble is when you see Jay refusing to try and get to a ball that is not played directly to his feet or watching whittingham afraid to put a foot in and tackle or the lack of any passion from Dave on the sidelines then it is not surprising that we have the current atmosphere at the CCS. Before someone posts about the fans not supporting certain players,I will say that I would single out Bothroyd here because he has received tremendous support from us fans even when he is not playing well yet his lack of effort sometimes is extremely frustrating.The crowd noise is often proportional to the spirit and effort shown by the team so its self explanitory why there have been far too many games when the atmosphere has been poor. At the beginning of the season I was confident that we were going to have an unbelievable season especially with the addition of Bellamy and the support of the Malaysians. Unfortunately the team has underperformed massively, so perhaps we may have more luck in future with players who are not such big names but are prepared to play for each other and work well as a team similar to Dundee and Dunfermline as you described.

Dundee are in the position they are in because they feel hard done to. Being in administration once again having ripped folk off, and sacked players and managers because they were spending money they didn't have(again). Players and managers who didn't get a penny along with the creditors who got a ridiculous amount of money for what they were owed. They have a very small squad ad have had to pull in retired pro's to make up a squad some days. This has brought the fans together, as they feel as if they have been harshly punished(they were deducted 25 points for the abuse of the rules - or watever way you wish to look at it). Until recently, I have always found them amongst the most fickle fans in Scotland, fans who expect to be in the top division because they were a big team so so long ago. Now, they are all pulling together and it's all down to cheating. Had they been wound up recently, very few would have shed a tear for them up here and in my opinion they are the wrong team to be citing as an example for anything. The board that dragged them down again contained supporters from their trust and if they was willing to let them go down that path, why should they get any sympathy? Again they are putting round the begging bowl expecting help and saying they've been punished unfairly. It's the third time they've been in such a position and it's wrong. Had they been churning along as they were previous to all this coming out, the atmosphere would have been nothing like it was and the fans demanding results. I don't think they would have performed as they have had it not been for what happeend to them.

That's what I like about you PtB keeping us informed about Scottish football which I personally have a curiosity about.

Also an excellent OP from 12th Man very interesting hearing about Dundee, so I have decided to nominate this thread for 'Read of the week'

Happy to help Tony!

Good read that. Football fans will recognize the buzz.

I don't think it is about money though. I'm sure the Barcelona players ain't skint and watch how hard they work on the pitch in addition to their magical skills.

What a team needs is a hierarchy who embrace players with a passion for the game and insists upon constant hard work and a desire to win every game they play in and to play the full 90mins+. Fans inevitably respond to this type of team character which improves the atmosphere which again helps improve performance. Warnock, Lambert seem to show that to me and to a certain extent Rodgers but not to the same level. Thats why I would say top two will be QPR and Norwich and I wouldn't fancy a play off game v Swansea.

You can smell the comfort zone behavior throughout our Club. The attitude from DJ is that 'its just a job' - remember the comments before swansea games - its just another 3 point match. I don't think passionate and successful managers like Shankly would ever dream of uttering such words. This transmits to the players who feel they just need to play their game professionally and that success will come from their ability. Bullshit - That's why we always tail off at the end of the season when others start fighting harder in addition to ability at top and bottom of the table. The fans naturally get totally deflated as this happens and the atmosphere mellows to a resigned silence.

Jones is a capable manager no doubt and will always point to the last few years, cup final, play off positions year on year etc. Totally correct - but is he a great manager who will gain you promotion to the richest league in the world, a leader of men who will inspire people to perform above themselves when it matters and put their foot in when they know it is going to hurt. Not in my book and thats why we will do the usual this season and see a great chance for promotion gradually fade away. Again. I assume VT is a winner given his wealth but he's too far away to see the behavior for himself and the track record above can easily blur that judgement unless you are there week in week out. He will see it though I'm sure. It will just be a season too late so lets hope he had the wealth and desire to sort it next season rather than cutting his losses.

Happy days!!

Good read that. Football fans will recognize the buzz.

I don't think it is about money though. I'm sure the Barcelona players ain't skint and watch how hard they work on the pitch in addition to their magical skills.

What a team needs is a hierarchy who embrace players with a passion for the game and insists upon constant hard work and a desire to win every game they play in and to play the full 90mins+. Fans inevitably respond to this type of team character which improves the atmosphere which again helps improve performance. Warnock, Lambert seem to show that to me and to a certain extent Rodgers but not to the same level. Thats why I would say top two will be QPR and Norwich and I wouldn't fancy a play off game v Swansea.

You can smell the comfort zone behavior throughout our Club. The attitude from DJ is that 'its just a job' - remember the comments before swansea games - its just another 3 point match. I don't think passionate and successful managers like Shankly would ever dream of uttering such words. This transmits to the players who feel they just need to play their game professionally and that success will come from their ability. Bullshit - That's why we always tail off at the end of the season when others start fighting harder in addition to ability at top and bottom of the table. The fans naturally get totally deflated as this happens and the atmosphere mellows to a resigned silence.

Jones is a capable manager no doubt and will always point to the last few years, cup final, play off positions year on year etc. Totally correct - but is he a great manager who will gain you promotion to the richest league in the world, a leader of men who will inspire people to perform above themselves when it matters and put their foot in when they know it is going to hurt. Not in my book and thats why we will do the usual this season and see a great chance for promotion gradually fade away. Again. I assume VT is a winner given his wealth but he's too far away to see the behavior for himself and the track record above can easily blur that judgement unless you are there week in week out. He will see it though I'm sure. It will just be a season too late so lets hope he had the wealth and desire to sort it next season rather than cutting his losses.

Happy days!!

Some excellent points in there.

Shadwell, for me i think you have got the the root cause of the main problems affecting Cardiff City's performances under DJ, basically a total lack of passion & personal drive.

An excellent post I agree but wanted to add a touch of realism without being negative. In my opinion Cardiff has more than 4,500 passionate fans who would go and sing their hearts out all game on a wet Tuesday evening in December, probably more like 6,000. But now there are 16,000 other fans who are there to watch a good game of football attracted by the level at which Cardiff are playing, knocking on the door of the premiership, without getting involved in singing etc. A crowd of 6,000 passionate fans can provide an excellent atmosphere but can't support the level of football that the club are currently playing at. However, those 6,000 fans would still be there if we were in he lower tiers of the league.

I believe getting as many like minded fans in the same area of the stadium is an excellent step forward but we all need to enjoy the times we are living in as Cardiff fans more. We are currently competing at the level I believe Cardiff should be, top 6 championship/bottom half premiership. We should have seen promotion in the last few years but the days of Cardiff having over 20,000 regularly and competing in a top league hasn't happened for a long time and if he money men behind the club packed up they may not happen again soon. Keep the faith, keep singing and keep believing.

Cracking point bspark......we're 4th in the chamionship with a great chance of premiership football next season.....let's enjoy it!

I don't know if anyone else has said this already ..???? ............

But is it no coincidence that the Cardiff City players that try their hardest, run the longest and have the best support of the City fans are SCOTTISH and from the Scottish league ?

McNaughton, Burke, Rae , Marshall and Quinn ....all appreciate where they have come from and how fortunate they are to have the lives of professional footballers.

You could even say Ernie benefitted from his stay up there.......Wildig ?