Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:45 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:48 pm
Forever Blue wrote:Got in to a debate in Albany Road Newsagents(Duddens)
I was told yesterday by a ex soldier(now 63 yrs old), Born and Bred in Wales, Very very Patriotic.
That Our Country Name " WALES " was given to us by the England, is this True ?
Also I have always been a person who Supports the Name Britain and that We are All in it together, whatever happens. A lot of Welsh/Scottish/Irish Say they are Not British but Welsh etc.
But this Gentleman told me Britain means Celts ? That did not sound right ?
Anyone Know Both the Answers to the Above ?
I am Sure Sludge will know
Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:51 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:00 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:04 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:16 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:20 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:23 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:37 pm
McMurdo wrote:And Britain is short for Brittania, which is either native Celt, or Roman. I'm not sure. But the Welsh/Scottish are more British than the English because they are the native people of Britain. The English have been invaded by Saxons, Normans and so on, so are bastardized which French and German and so on. Where as Wales and Scotland were largely left alone. Welsh is the closest thing to the original language of Britain I can tell you that much.
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:44 pm
McMurdo wrote:And Britain is short for Brittania, which is either native Celt, or Roman. I'm not sure. But the Welsh/Scottish are more British than the English because they are the native people of Britain. The English have been invaded by Saxons, Normans and so on, so are bastardized which French and German and so on. Where as Wales and Scotland were largely left alone. Welsh is the closest thing to the original language of Britain I can tell you that much.
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:45 pm
brown wrote:Wales is an old english word and was given to us by the english, embarresingly it means "foreigner", think it was the saxons who gave it to us but im not sure.
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:46 pm
streamfeeder wrote:McMurdo wrote:And Britain is short for Brittania, which is either native Celt, or Roman. I'm not sure. But the Welsh/Scottish are more British than the English because they are the native people of Britain. The English have been invaded by Saxons, Normans and so on, so are bastardized which French and German and so on. Where as Wales and Scotland were largely left alone. Welsh is the closest thing to the original language of Britain I can tell you that much.
wales was invaded by romans, and large parts of scotland were settled on by vikings, also britain comes from a tribe the britons, who i think came over from brittony, also, britain was until middle ages a mish mash of tribes from various parts of western europe, and as such the english language evolved from hundreds of different dialects, very few of them like the old welsh language and not at all like the modern version, so in reality there was no original language of england until old english,and up until 1600's someone from kent would be unable to understand someone from london, such was the diversity of language in britain at that time.(if anyone is interested in the history of english language theres a very easy to read book by bill bryson called the mother tongue which i would recommend)
i would love to hear from anyone who claims to have a true welsh blood line going back say, 5 generations, cos with the influx of irish and northern english during the last two centurys i doubt theres any in the vallys or cardiff and the chances of there being an actual celt saxon or britton are less than zero, therefore we are all british
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:47 pm
JONNY012697 wrote:The Anglo-Saxon word for 'foreign' or 'foreigner' was Waelsic and a 'foreign(ers) land' was called Wealas. The modern English forms of these words with respect to the modern country are Welsh (the people) and Wales (the land), respectively.
Historically in Britain the words were not restricted to modern Wales or to the Welsh but wer used indiscriminately to refer to anything that the Anglo-Saxons associated with Celtic Britons, including other foreign lands (e.g CornWALL), places once associated with Celtic Britons (e.g WALworth in County Durham and WALton in West Yorkshire), the surnames of people (e.g. Walsh and Wallace) and various other things that were once new and foreign to the Anglo-Saxons (e.g. the WALnut). None of these historic usages is neccessarily connected to Wales or the Welsh.
So yes our country name was given to us but not from England it was actually Germany if you want to be technical.
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:48 pm
recharding wrote:Good post Annis.
I feel Welsh and British. My heritage is both Welsh and British. That is an undeniable fact. Why should I discard my British side?
The Welsh or the people who have inhabited the land of Wales are more British than the English. We are proper Britons.
The name of Wales is vague but basically means foreigner or outside. It comes from Anglo-Saxons.
Whether people like it or not, our history is comlpex and linked to England's own. We have a shared history with England. Henry V born in Monmouth and Edward Tudor was a quarter Welsh.
We are a complicated little old country.
Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:53 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:07 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:08 pm
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Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:22 pm
ccfcgrangeend wrote:Seems we need to take our country back as well according to my invstigation
The 400 years following the collapse of Roman rule is the most difficult to interpret in the history of Wales.[35] After the Roman departure from Britain in 410, much of the lowlands of Britain to the east and south-east were overrun by various Germanic tribes.[42] However by 500 AD, the land that would become Wales had divided into number of kingdoms free from Anglo-Saxon rule.[35] The kingdoms of Gwynedd, Powys, Dyfed and Seisyllg, Morgannwg and Gwent emerged as independent Welsh successor states.[35] Archaeological evidence, in the Low Countries and what was to become England, shows early Anglo-Saxon migration to Great Britain reversed between 500 to 550, which concurs with Frankish chronicles.[43] John Davies notes this as consistent with the British victory at Badon Hill, attributed to Arthur by Nennius.[43] This tenacious survival by the Romano-Britons and their descendants in the western kingdoms was to become the foundation of what we now know as Wales. With the loss of the lowlands, England's kingdoms of Mercia and Northumbria, and later Wessex, wrestled with Powys, Gwent and Gwynedd to define the frontier between the two peoples.
Having lost much of what is now the West Midlands to Mercia in the 6th and early 7th centuries, a resurgent late-seventh-century Powys checked Mercian advancement. Aethelbald of Mercia, looking to defend recently acquired lands, had built Wat's Dyke. According to John Davies, this endeavour may have been with Powys king Elisedd ap Gwylog's own agreement, however, for this boundary, extending north from the valley of the River Severn to the Dee estuary, gave Oswestry to Powys.[44] Another theory, after carbon-dating placed the dyke's existence 300 years earlier, is that it may have been built by the post-Roman rulers of Wroxeter.[45] King Offa of Mercia seems to have continued this consultative initiative when he created a larger earthwork, now known as Offa's Dyke (Clawdd Offa). Davies wrote of Cyril Fox's study of Offa's Dyke: "In the planning of it, there was a degree of consultation with the kings of Powys and Gwent. On the Long Mountain near Trelystan, the dyke veers to the east, leaving the fertile slopes in the hands of the Welsh; near Rhiwabon, it was designed to ensure that Cadell ap Brochwel retained possession of the Fortress of Penygadden." And, for Gwent, Offa had the dyke built "on the eastern crest of the gorge, clearly with the intention of recognizing that the River Wye and its traffic belonged to the kingdom of Gwent."[44] However, Fox's interpretations of both the length and purpose of the Dyke have been questioned by more recent research.[46] Offa's Dyke largely remained the frontier between the Welsh and English, though the Welsh would recover by the 12th century the area between the Dee (Afon Dyfrdwy), and the Conwy known then as Y Berfeddwlad. By the eighth century, the eastern borders with the Anglo-Saxons had broadly been set.
In 853 the Vikings raided Anglesey, but in 856 Rhodri Mawr defeated and killed their leader, Gorm.[47] The Britons of Wales later made their peace with the Vikings and Anarawd ap Rhodri allied with the Norsemen occupying Northumbria to conquer the north.[48] This alliance later broke down and Anarawd came to an agreement with Alfred, king of Wessex, with whom he fought against the west Welsh. According to Annales Cambriae, in 894, "Anarawd came with the Angles and laid waste Ceredigion and Ystrad Tywi."[49]
Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:08 pm
McMurdo wrote:ccfcgrangeend wrote:Seems we need to take our country back as well according to my invstigation
The 400 years following the collapse of Roman rule is the most difficult to interpret in the history of Wales.[35] After the Roman departure from Britain in 410, much of the lowlands of Britain to the east and south-east were overrun by various Germanic tribes.[42] However by 500 AD, the land that would become Wales had divided into number of kingdoms free from Anglo-Saxon rule.[35] The kingdoms of Gwynedd, Powys, Dyfed and Seisyllg, Morgannwg and Gwent emerged as independent Welsh successor states.[35] Archaeological evidence, in the Low Countries and what was to become England, shows early Anglo-Saxon migration to Great Britain reversed between 500 to 550, which concurs with Frankish chronicles.[43] John Davies notes this as consistent with the British victory at Badon Hill, attributed to Arthur by Nennius.[43] This tenacious survival by the Romano-Britons and their descendants in the western kingdoms was to become the foundation of what we now know as Wales. With the loss of the lowlands, England's kingdoms of Mercia and Northumbria, and later Wessex, wrestled with Powys, Gwent and Gwynedd to define the frontier between the two peoples.
Having lost much of what is now the West Midlands to Mercia in the 6th and early 7th centuries, a resurgent late-seventh-century Powys checked Mercian advancement. Aethelbald of Mercia, looking to defend recently acquired lands, had built Wat's Dyke. According to John Davies, this endeavour may have been with Powys king Elisedd ap Gwylog's own agreement, however, for this boundary, extending north from the valley of the River Severn to the Dee estuary, gave Oswestry to Powys.[44] Another theory, after carbon-dating placed the dyke's existence 300 years earlier, is that it may have been built by the post-Roman rulers of Wroxeter.[45] King Offa of Mercia seems to have continued this consultative initiative when he created a larger earthwork, now known as Offa's Dyke (Clawdd Offa). Davies wrote of Cyril Fox's study of Offa's Dyke: "In the planning of it, there was a degree of consultation with the kings of Powys and Gwent. On the Long Mountain near Trelystan, the dyke veers to the east, leaving the fertile slopes in the hands of the Welsh; near Rhiwabon, it was designed to ensure that Cadell ap Brochwel retained possession of the Fortress of Penygadden." And, for Gwent, Offa had the dyke built "on the eastern crest of the gorge, clearly with the intention of recognizing that the River Wye and its traffic belonged to the kingdom of Gwent."[44] However, Fox's interpretations of both the length and purpose of the Dyke have been questioned by more recent research.[46] Offa's Dyke largely remained the frontier between the Welsh and English, though the Welsh would recover by the 12th century the area between the Dee (Afon Dyfrdwy), and the Conwy known then as Y Berfeddwlad. By the eighth century, the eastern borders with the Anglo-Saxons had broadly been set.
In 853 the Vikings raided Anglesey, but in 856 Rhodri Mawr defeated and killed their leader, Gorm.[47] The Britons of Wales later made their peace with the Vikings and Anarawd ap Rhodri allied with the Norsemen occupying Northumbria to conquer the north.[48] This alliance later broke down and Anarawd came to an agreement with Alfred, king of Wessex, with whom he fought against the west Welsh. According to Annales Cambriae, in 894, "Anarawd came with the Angles and laid waste Ceredigion and Ystrad Tywi."[49]
Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:11 pm
Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:11 pm
ccfcgrangeend wrote:re-posted this under new heading should we take our land back from the english ? Interesting views
Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:16 pm