Did you know that if the 'yes' vote won on March 3rd

then another 20 AM's will be recruited!!!!

Its just money wasted in my opinion.

No matter which lying fucker 'runs' an independant Welsh Assembly, agreement has
already been reached between Plaid Labour and the tories that any regeneration of
the Welsh economy will be built upon a huge influx of foreign labour. they dont care
a f**k about 'The Welsh'... like all other politicians... they just want the power.

The new Welsh Assembly building in Llandudno junction has a dedicated prayer room
for Muslims, complete with foot sinks etc. Not one Muslim works in the building
The room has not been used once. There is no dedicated prayer room for Sikhs or for
Christians or for any other fucker.

I am a Welsh Nationalist. But wouldnt trust ANY of the snakes in the Welsh Assembly
to put Welsh people first.

a big f*cking yes for me even though a few months older i'll be old enough to vote so i miss this vote and the welsh election
20 more am WONT be recruited they are sticking with the ones they got. alot of people said money in wales is wasted...the engerlish pay for nearly everything we get so they are the ones wasting it..

a bit of news you all might not care bout and i may get stick for saying this...but i;m getting a tad bit sick of carpentry and am "interested" in politics...i aint the smartest fella but george bush made it as president of the most paranoid country ever whom nearly started a world war and then went to iraq for the oil (yes i know we were involved too) and the idiot whos gonna run this country to the ground known as cameron with his bum buddy clegg. I'm seriously thinking bout helping out or better getting a job with plaid cymru..and i have my reasons..i dont agree wiith everything they say but i do agree with some things..i havent agreed with a thing the tories have done....

anyway....COME ON CITY LETS HUNT THE FOXES TONIGHT

Votinbg no. It's just putting more money and power into the hands of people who don't need it.

then another 20 AM's will be recruited!!!!

NO IT WON'T

http://www.yesforwales.com/site/?page_id=59

See points 2 and 4. And for those scaremongers and purveyors of misinformation see point 6

then another 20 AM's will be recruited!!!!

NO IT WON'T

http://www.yesforwales.com/site/?page_id=59

See points 2 and 4. And for those scaremongers and purveyors of misinformation see point 6

Thats from the 'yes' campaign and they dont want you to find put about this but its in the small print believe me

easy to say that kind of shit, where's your proof?

show us the small print.....

Thats from the 'yes' campaign and they dont want you to find put about this but its in the small print believe me

easy to say that kind of shit, where's your proof?

show us the small print.....

I work for the Assembly and its a well known FACT!!!

Ok mate, I used to work for the Assembly and it's not a well known fact. How come I cannot find any documents stating what your stating. Not being funny but as devious as politicians are, they cannot say there will be no more Assembly members and then create twenty new ones once/if they get the yes vote.
Maybe in the future they'll create new Assembly members, but as far as I can tell that's only if Westminster cuts the number of Welsh MPs, and therefore it wouldn't cost the tax payer anymore money, especially when AMs cost less money and have consistantly claimed less expenses than their Westminster counterparts.

Anyway, I'll be sending my yes vote by post - I'd rather have Welsh people ruling Welsh people thanks.

Ok mate, I used to work for the Assembly and it's not a well known fact. How come I cannot find any documents stating what your stating. Not being funny but as devious as politicians are, they cannot say there will be no more Assembly members and then create twenty new ones once/if they get the yes vote.
Maybe in the future they'll create new Assembly members, but as far as I can tell that's only if Westminster cuts the number of Welsh MPs, and therefore it wouldn't cost the tax payer anymore money, especially when AMs cost less money and have consistantly claimed less expenses than their Westminster counterparts.

Anyway, I'll be sending my yes vote by post - I'd rather have Welsh people ruling Welsh people thanks.[/quote]



THis so Called Midfield General thinks he knows so much, and think Thatcher was a god after all the things she did to our Valleys and our steel works and she brought in an American guy to advice her. The Cow left our Valleys empty with no future and just a promise, and that turn out to be the 7 years Factorys . where english firms set up in the valleys with all new machines given to them ,out of Welsh money and after 7 years they shut down the Factorys and took all the Machines back to the mother companys back in england,and left workers that turn up for work on a Monday to read letters on the gates that said SHUT DOWN ! All this come from the Thatch that he thinks as a god . He Also had know Idea that Churchill sent in troops and killed Welshmen and then Hang a Welshmen in Public that was inoccent .
I will let NO man and I dont care who the hell they are, BIG or Small run down the people of Wales and Wales the land I love .
PART TIME WELSHMAN !

Thats from the 'yes' campaign and they dont want you to find put about this but its in the small print believe me

easy to say that kind of shit, where's your proof?

show us the small print.....

I work for the Assembly and its a well known FACT!!!

IT'S FROM AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION...see point 2 !! And stop trying to scare people into voting no. Some of us have faith in ourselves and believe that we know better than a bunch of southern toffs how to run our own affairs.

Did you see that Week In, Week Out documentary about how Tories don't give a shit about job cuts and benefit cuts. Even when the documentary showed how the benefit cuts across the board will affect those that genuinely need the benefits rather than those abusing the system, the Tories still didn't give a shit.

They showed video footage of Iain Duncan-Smith going 'I feel the people of Merthyr have become too static. Cardiff has jobs and that's only 1 hour down the ride on a bus'. They then did the trip at a time when they would be asked to work and it took close to 2 hours. That's at least a 12-13 hour day plus take away £4.50 a day for the travel return. It's not as ideal as the Tories make out.

I'm voting yes because Westminster has no grip on reality here in Wales. Yes, I appreciate cuts need to be made but not with black and white reforms. You can't generalise things like benefits and job opportunities. By bringing more power to here it might not change anything but isn't it worth the chance???

Did you see that Week In, Week Out documentary about how Tories don't give a shit about job cuts and benefit cuts. Even when the documentary showed how the benefit cuts across the board will affect those that genuinely need the benefits rather than those abusing the system, the Tories still didn't give a shit.

They showed video footage of Iain Duncan-Smith going 'I feel the people of Merthyr have become too static. Cardiff has jobs and that's only 1 hour down the ride on a bus'. They then did the trip at a time when they would be asked to work and it took close to 2 hours. That's at least a 12-13 hour day plus take away £4.50 a day for the travel return. It's not as ideal as the Tories make out.

I'm voting yes because Westminster has no grip on reality here in Wales. Yes, I appreciate cuts need to be made but not with black and white reforms. You can't generalise things like benefits and job opportunities. By bringing more power to here it might not change anything but isn't it worth the chance???

Also in Merthyr the people there have the lowest expectation of life than anyone in the uk, This town was once sent steel all over the world. Also Fact there was a guy from there that made gift cards and cos he had stamp on the cards that said Made and printed in Wales they would not let them out of the country FACT! he was told he had to put made in UK or GB or england FACT! even the Welsh car made up the Valleys was told by the english government to set it up in the Midlands.
even corgi or dinkys Toys that was made in west of Wales was made to have stamp on them made in uk and GB.
and the people of Wales stand for this ?
This goverment is now telling people to look for work , where the hell is the work when they them selfs are making all the cuts that is putting people out of work ! and it was the big bankers back by the Mp that made the country as it is . These people are now living in the sun with big bank rolls and leaving us people to eat the shit .And the people of this country had to bail them out with public money . then they put up bank charges to the very people that bail them out. FOR GOD SAKE GUY GET A GRIP, LET WELSH PEOPLE TAKE CARE OF WELSH PEOPLE!

Did you see that Week In, Week Out documentary about how Tories don't give a shit about job cuts and benefit cuts. Even when the documentary showed how the benefit cuts across the board will affect those that genuinely need the benefits rather than those abusing the system, the Tories still didn't give a shit.

They showed video footage of Iain Duncan-Smith going 'I feel the people of Merthyr have become too static. Cardiff has jobs and that's only 1 hour down the ride on a bus'. They then did the trip at a time when they would be asked to work and it took close to 2 hours. That's at least a 12-13 hour day plus take away £4.50 a day for the travel return. It's not as ideal as the Tories make out.

I'm voting yes because Westminster has no grip on reality here in Wales. Yes, I appreciate cuts need to be made but not with black and white reforms. You can't generalise things like benefits and job opportunities. By bringing more power to here it might not change anything but isn't it worth the chance???

Im sorry but thousands of people travel to work every single day in the area and a large percentage of them have to pay for their travel so why is it such a bad thing for people to travel to work...? May I remind you that under a LABOUR and PLAID leading Assembly they have set-up an Assembly building in Merthyr however the workforce is actually bussed in from Cardiff every day!!!! So much so for the headlines of the scheme to outscoure the Assembly workforce!!! The iconic Hoovers building left the Merthyr area under a LABOUR UK AND WELSH ASSEMBLY GOVERNMENT yet no talks were ever offered to the management from the politicans yet to other marginal seats in the UK the Labour government offered wads of cash to keep the companies in areas of deprevation. Wake up and smell the coffee the Labour Party with the help of Plaid has offered nothing to the area too!!!

On top of this though, there aren't actually many jobs in Cardiff anyway. Plus, yes, people do commute to work all over the country and yes, there are people who could do it but to just generalise it and dismiss it as Duncan-Smith did was naive and arrogant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making this a Labour vs Conservative argument. I'm not stupid, I know Labour got us into this mess. However, the attitude of Westminster to Wales makes me sick. We are a secondary thought. This isn't necessarily a matter of Welsh identity because that is not in question. This is a matter of us getting a stronger voice and an opportunity to make the changes we want.

Or you could vote no and continue to moan about how things are?

Many flaws in your comment. Firstly these so-called English firms, I remember Japanese and Koran firms being given handouts and not lasting long and I've no doubt that some of them were also English and Welsh. My point being the blame with this scheme lays with the Assembly in making these handouts too easy to obtain and no-one else. Plus I can assure you that Labour were in power at the Assembly within that time and not Thatcher!!!!! You also mention Thatcher leaving the valleys without any future, well tell that to the thousands of people in the valleys who took advantage of her scheme to buy their council home. You can't get any better start in life than owning your own home!!!!
Your comments on Churchill and the Hanging are comical and Im still waiting for actually proof because I know the hanging issue was mentioned in a comedy sketch in the 90's!!!
You mentioned that I am running down the people of Wales which is an incredible statement to make as I am only interested in facts and not comedy sketches like yourself.

I am not a fan of any of the political parties and detest new labour with a passion, but I think you'll find that most of these factories were funded by the WDA and John Majors tories of that time. The Assembly carried on the practise but to a lesser degree and by then had learnt from the many mistakes made by Westminsters government and civil service.

A pathetic policy (to win votes) when not backed with the building of new social housing, this has led not only to a unsustainable housing bubble which stops young people getting on the housing ladder (which you seem to think is so important even though most countries in Europe do rather well by cheap rents all their lives), but has cost the country more in the long term by instead of having social housing for people in need we now have to fund ridiculous rent by housing benefits. A lose lose situation.

Did you see that Week In, Week Out documentary about how Tories don't give a shit about job cuts and benefit cuts. Even when the documentary showed how the benefit cuts across the board will affect those that genuinely need the benefits rather than those abusing the system, the Tories still didn't give a shit.

They showed video footage of Iain Duncan-Smith going 'I feel the people of Merthyr have become too static. Cardiff has jobs and that's only 1 hour down the ride on a bus'. They then did the trip at a time when they would be asked to work and it took close to 2 hours. That's at least a 12-13 hour day plus take away £4.50 a day for the travel return. It's not as ideal as the Tories make out.

I'm voting yes because Westminster has no grip on reality here in Wales. Yes, I appreciate cuts need to be made but not with black and white reforms. You can't generalise things like benefits and job opportunities. By bringing more power to here it might not change anything but isn't it worth the chance???

Im sorry but thousands of people travel to work every single day in the area and a large percentage of them have to pay for their travel so why is it such a bad thing for people to travel to work...? May I remind you that under a LABOUR and PLAID leading Assembly they have set-up an Assembly building in Merthyr however the workforce is actually bussed in from Cardiff every day!!!! So much so for the headlines of the scheme to outscoure the Assembly workforce!!! The iconic Hoovers building left the Merthyr area under a LABOUR UK AND WELSH ASSEMBLY GOVERNMENT yet no talks were ever offered to the management from the politicans yet to other marginal seats in the UK the Labour government offered wads of cash to keep the companies in areas of deprevation. Wake up and smell the coffee the Labour Party with the help of Plaid has offered nothing to the area too!!!

On top of this though, there aren't actually many jobs in Cardiff anyway. Plus, yes, people do commute to work all over the country and yes, there are people who could do it but to just generalise it and dismiss it as Duncan-Smith did was naive and arrogant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making this a Labour vs Conservative argument. I'm not stupid, I know Labour got us into this mess. However, the attitude of Westminster to Wales makes me sick. We are a secondary thought. This isn't necessarily a matter of Welsh identity because that is not in question. This is a matter of us getting a stronger voice and an opportunity to make the changes we want.

Or you could vote no and continue to moan about how things are?

Exactly, I've had to move from my hometown CARDIFF to London for that exact reason.

Also if you want to go into the Health and Wellbeing of people in the Merthyr area then you should also include the biggest opencast coalmine in Europe which WAG put through inside the recommend boundary to peoples homes giving them constant dust particles to breath in each and every day. One of the worst roads in the UK, the A470 which has killed many was actually stopped half way through the widening scheme BEFORE they got to the most danagerous part!!! and now the locals have to put up with a huge incinerator which is being proposed. ALL THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE WELSH ASSEMBLY HAS MADE IT HAPPEN!!!

I thought you worked for the Welsh Assembly? Why work for a institution you hate?

Not being funny but your probably one of the reasons why the Assembly is currently failing in its current aims -

Apathetic staff who whine and moan but don't actually do anything to sort anything out, they'd rather spend their days on forums on the internet than working hard for their employers - THE PEOPLE OF WALES.
My line manager when I worked in the Assembly was the same, should have been sacked years ago, typical tory civil service dinasaur waiting for his pension or pay off.

Many flaws in your comment. Firstly these so-called English firms, I remember Japanese and Koran firms being given handouts and not lasting long and I've no doubt that some of them were also English and Welsh. My point being the blame with this scheme lays with the Assembly in making these handouts too easy to obtain and no-one else. Plus I can assure you that Labour were in power at the Assembly within that time and not Thatcher!!!!! You also mention Thatcher leaving the valleys without any future, well tell that to the thousands of people in the valleys who took advantage of her scheme to buy their council home. You can't get any better start in life than owning your own home!!!!
Your comments on Churchill and the Hanging are comical and Im still waiting for actually proof because I know the hanging issue was mentioned in a comedy sketch in the 90's!!!
You mentioned that I am running down the people of Wales which is an incredible statement to make as I am only interested in facts and not comedy sketches like yourself.

I am not a fan of any of the political parties and detest new labour with a passion, but I think you'll find that most of these factories were funded by the WDA and John Majors tories of that time. The Assembly carried on the practise but to a lesser degree and by then had learnt from the many mistakes made by Westminsters government and civil service.

A pathetic policy (to win votes) when not backed with the building of new social housing, this has led not only to a unsustainable housing bubble which stops young people getting on the housing ladder (which you seem to think is so important even though most countries in Europe do rather well by cheap rents all their lives), but has cost the country more in the long term by instead of having social housing for people in need we now have to fund ridiculous rent by housing benefits. A lose lose situation.

Personally I think the 'right to buy' scheme was fantastic and many families benefited for it ANd may I say communities because it is well known that if you buy your home you look after the street its in more.

I can see where you are coming from on your first point but lets not keep the Welsh Assembly completely 'blame free'.

However its all about opinions and its far better having people to debate rather than being slagged off by a brainwashed few

I totally agree with you, only problem is when you don't build more council houses what the f**k is going to happen to the next generation?

Huge housing benefit bills for the authorities directly due to that policy, and huge amounts of young people who cannot afford to get anywhere near the property ladder.

Short term policies from all goverments since the 70s is why the UK is falling behind the rest of Europe.

Different opinions make the world interesting. I'm not left or right wing, I'm just confused

If you want me to prvoe what I said about Churchill you will wait for a long time, do your own reading about how your england treated Wales , look in the uprise of Wales you will fined it all there. and why we are about it take a look at this and what your england did to welsh people, and one of them familys whos grand parents live there is on this forum ! here the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LX6EbBiUXk

THE LAKE ? it wasnt a lake at one time , it was peoples lives and homes ! Sorry i want NOTHING to do with some one like you !

The 'right to buy' idea was for Councils including the ones in Wales to use the income to build more homes but when the money come in at first they diverted that funding onto other projects.

.......and because of that it was a massive failure, not particularly hard for the government of the time to INSIST what the money was spent on. It should have been set in stone what the money was spent on but it wasn't.

I don't particularly give a shit who run the councils, the last few governments have been as pathetic as each other, councils are always doing things for the short term as they work year by year to a stricter budget than the government, it's up to the government to guarantee that some services aren't destroyed.
I believe that the selling of council properties without any plan for the future was beyond stupid, it was f*cking vandalism of the social state, which is what that c**t Thatcher more than likely intended.

then another 20 AM's will be recruited!!!!

This explains alot regarding you thinking Ali shouldn't be announcer

then another 20 AM's will be recruited!!!!

This explains alot regarding you thinking Ali shouldn't be announcer

Why..?

Isit anything to do with the fact that Ali backs the 'yes' vote?
I could be wrong though, if I am.. Sorry

I don't particularly give a shit who run the councils, the last few governments have been as pathetic as each other, councils are always doing things for the short term as they work year by year to a stricter budget than the government, it's up to the government to guarantee that some services aren't destroyed.
I believe that the selling of council properties without any plan for the future was beyond stupid, it was f*cking vandalism of the social state, which is what that c**t Thatcher more than likely intended.

It provided people from lower down the social spectrum to buy their own homes and many families haven't looked back.

We've already agreed on that, but for me that is not enough to cover all the damage that policy has done.

The children of those families who did benefit are more likely to be fucked than their parents ever were, their rents have to be subsidised by housing benefit (which we pay) as private landlords filled the void left by the lack of council houses, on top of that the idea of young people in south wales these days getting on the housing ladder is more of a pipe dream now than ever before.

Anyway, it's getting a bit repetative, let's agree to disagree.

CF14-SE14 = shit policy by a horrible woman to win votes, with no thought for the future of those communities.
Midfield General - wonderful policy by a wonderful woman who helped many families get on the property ladder.

thanks for the debate

no problem!

then another 20 AM's will be recruited!!!!

NO IT DOESN'T

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12268077

See the third question!! Written by the BBC....neutrals!!

DO YOU MEAN THIS ONE ? Does this mean more AMs?
No. The referendum is solely about part four of the Act, which says nothing about adding to the existing 60 AMs.

thanks for the debate

Fair play lads, really good topic. Some cracking arguments both for and against. I will be voting yes but it has certainly made me realise it's a tougher choice than just ticking a box. If you're voting in the election I recommend you do some background research because you might be better off suited to one vote rather than the one you intend to vote for.

Well played gents.