" DANGEROUS GAME! "

Evening chaps, glad to see some excitement coming back to this board with your latest signings, things look like they could come to an exciting finish, us signing for the rest of the season, yours and our old mate Routledge, Chimbonda and Ismael Miller, with the likelihood of former R's legend Danny Shittu also coming back, and you guys with Thomas, the Israeli from Blackpool (wow a defender), the lump from Preston and the one that have given the whole of south Wales (well apart from Swansea) a semi, Aaron Ramsey. However, as an outsider looking in I would say that if I supported Cardiff I would be concerned about the effects a one month signing may have on the team, especially the player that he replaces for this short period of time and also the fact about which one of your other 'star loanees' will he displace, given that you can only have five loanees in a match day squad. Effectively signing both the Arsenal lads will mean that you have to drop two other loanees, given that Parkin has just signed and Thomas is a forward I would suggest that either or both Chopra and Bothroyd are on their way. Your owners seem very reluctant to back Jones financially, you have spent bugger all this season in terms of fees and now it seems that a third of your squad aren't even Cardiff players. To me this seems a very dangerous game to play and through our own experience it can go wrong big time and the reason why Warnock wanted to limit the amount of loanees this season. We now have two, Routledge who has been signed with the view to a permanent move and Miller, who I have my doubts over. Still it is all going to be very interesting. We have a decent run of games coming up, but yet we are QPR and we can screw anything up, we still think we are just one point from safety as opposed to leading the pack! Would be interested to hear your own unbiased thoughts.

McPhail probably out for about a month and Drinkwater not firing as he was at the start of the season. One month is perfect time to get them both back up to speed. I assume Ramsey will play in the middle with Olifinjana and Whittingham and Burke will fight over the right side midfield when Bellamy isn't being rested.

Evening chaps, glad to see some excitement coming back to this board with your latest signings, things look like they could come to an exciting finish, us signing for the rest of the season, yours and our old mate Routledge, Chimbonda and Ismael Miller, with the likelihood of former R's legend Danny Shittu also coming back, and you guys with Thomas, the Israeli from Blackpool (wow a defender), the lump from Preston and the one that have given the whole of south Wales (well apart from Swansea) a semi, Aaron Ramsey. However, as an outsider looking in I would say that if I supported Cardiff I would be concerned about the effects a one month signing may have on the team, especially the player that he replaces for this short period of time and also the fact about which one of your other 'star loanees' will he displace, given that you can only have five loanees in a match day squad. Effectively signing both the Arsenal lads will mean that you have to drop two other loanees, given that Parkin has just signed and Thomas is a forward I would suggest that either or both Chopra and Bothroyd are on their way. Your owners seem very reluctant to back Jones financially, you have spent bugger all this season in terms of fees and now it seems that a third of your squad aren't even Cardiff players. To me this seems a very dangerous game to play and through our own experience it can go wrong big time and the reason why Warnock wanted to limit the amount of loanees this season. We now have two, Routledge who has been signed with the view to a permanent move and Miller, who I have my doubts over. Still it is all going to be very interesting. We have a decent run of games coming up, but yet we are QPR and we can screw anything up, we still think we are just one point from safety as opposed to leading the pack! Would be interested to hear your own unbiased thoughts.

bspark has answered your question about who gets replaced in his post below.

And I think the risk of losing loan players at the end of the season is one well worth taking. If we or you don`t get promoted , the likelihood is that many of our better players will seek pastures new next season. If we do , and we are honest about it , there will have to be major changes in our "permanent" playing staff anyway as many of them will simply not be good enough for the next level up.

One of the loans, Koumas, will probably not make the squad again unless we hit some desperate injuries he is well off the pace at this level sad to say.

Also can't see any strikers leaving we finally have a squad where we can start naming strikers on the bench which will be interesting, may actually be able to change a game when it's not going our way. If someone does put in a huge bid for chops or jay then DJ has struck early so we don't have to do a Joe Ledley and immediately turn it down because we have no time to replace them in the window (although would hope we would turn it down).

we could have a squad like this

GK: Heaton
RB: McNaughton
CB: Hudson
CB: Keinan
LB: Naylor

RM: JET (LOAN)
CM: Drinkwater (LOAN)
DM: Olofinjana (LOAN)
CM: Ramsey (LOAN)
LM: Bellamy (LOAN)

ST: Keogh (LOAN)

Subs.
Koumas (LOAN)


there are 7 loanees in that squad, but JET, Ramsey and Drinkwater are all 21 or younger so they can be included in the squad regardless of the number of other loanees in there! So there is no problem that way

we could have a squad like this

GK: Heaton
RB: McNaughton
CB: Hudson
CB: Keinan
LB: Naylor

RM: JET (LOAN)
CM: Drinkwater (LOAN)
DM: Olofinjana (LOAN)
CM: Ramsey (LOAN)
LM: Bellamy (LOAN)

ST: Keogh (LOAN)

Subs.
Koumas (LOAN)


there are 7 loanees in that squad, but JET, Ramsey and Drinkwater are all 21 or younger so they can be included in the squad regardless of the number of other loanees in there! So there is no problem that way

No they can't.

It is only 5 loan players of any sort can be included in a match day squad. That includes under 23's over 23's and short term
(emergency) loans

Look at it from the malaysions angle,if we get promoted all wages sorted,if we dont get promoted,7 loan players go back to their clubs no wages to be paid in the long summer months when they have no income; just an observation

Our QPR friend has made a good observation but I think we have been rather canny in our dealings this year and especially this month. Having only spent 100k on the beast and not much more on keinan I think we have saved ourselves the need to sell Jay B if some tempting 2m offer came in.....in other words we wouldnt need to sell. Chops is staying without a doubt, looking more trim and scoring at the right times.

We've added 4 signings, hopefully Gabbs or another defender (LB obviously) may come in if a deal is there and DJ has no excuses. Thats his 5 signings and thats our automatic promotion as this is a very good championship side. If i can bring myself to say it and we slip up.....well DJ and his massive wage will be gone, and a new up and coming manager (the likes of grayson, lambert poyet type) can come in with a clean slate and some money; having a good spine in the team ie chopra hudson heaton.

On another note, i think Warnock has bought well - not mixning it up too much but filling in gaps (chimonda for walker, millar for mackie) and then bring wayne for some fresh impetus. I wasnt too worried about QPR but im starting to change my mind!!

The Kienan signing for you guys will be interesting, given that your defence is dodgy. Again a concern for me would be that he could not get into the Blackpool side or remain as a squad member, and their defence includes the likes of Ian Evatt. Now Evatt isn't a bad footballer, however, we had him for a season and he had the turning circle of a super-tanker. Surely Jones would have been better looking down the leagues than up and gone for a player like Morrison from Swindon who has just moved to Reading for not a massive amount but was highly regarded.

Regarding Ramsey, if he plays instead of McPhail then his inclusion will effectively displace two existing players, not only McPhail but would also have to displace another loanee, same with Thomas and possibly that could put noses out of joint, a difficult balancing act now presents itself for Jones, and as I say, is he and your owners playing a dangerous game?

You make some good points DWQPR but let's don't forget Stoke City got promoted a few seasons back with as many loan players as they could take. They exploited the system to the max and it worked for them. Whether it does for us, well we'll see. Next three games are all proverbial 6 pointers and will define the rest of the season.

we could have a squad like this

GK: Heaton
RB: McNaughton
CB: Hudson
CB: Keinan
LB: Naylor

RM: JET (LOAN)
CM: Drinkwater (LOAN)
DM: Olofinjana (LOAN)
CM: Ramsey (LOAN)
LM: Bellamy (LOAN)

ST: Keogh (LOAN)

Subs.
Koumas (LOAN)


there are 7 loanees in that squad, but JET, Ramsey and Drinkwater are all 21 or younger so they can be included in the squad regardless of the number of other loanees in there! So there is no problem that way

Wrong.

You can only name 5 in a match day lineup, including subs...

Evening chaps, glad to see some excitement coming back to this board with your latest signings, things look like they could come to an exciting finish, us signing for the rest of the season, yours and our old mate Routledge, Chimbonda and Ismael Miller, with the likelihood of former R's legend Danny Shittu also coming back, and you guys with Thomas, the Israeli from Blackpool (wow a defender), the lump from Preston and the one that have given the whole of south Wales (well apart from Swansea) a semi, Aaron Ramsey. However, as an outsider looking in I would say that if I supported Cardiff I would be concerned about the effects a one month signing may have on the team, especially the player that he replaces for this short period of time and also the fact about which one of your other 'star loanees' will he displace, given that you can only have five loanees in a match day squad. Effectively signing both the Arsenal lads will mean that you have to drop two other loanees, given that Parkin has just signed and Thomas is a forward I would suggest that either or both Chopra and Bothroyd are on their way. Your owners seem very reluctant to back Jones financially, you have spent bugger all this season in terms of fees and now it seems that a third of your squad aren't even Cardiff players. To me this seems a very dangerous game to play and through our own experience it can go wrong big time and the reason why Warnock wanted to limit the amount of loanees this season. We now have two, Routledge who has been signed with the view to a permanent move and Miller, who I have my doubts over. Still it is all going to be very interesting. We have a decent run of games coming up, but yet we are QPR and we can screw anything up, we still think we are just one point from safety as opposed to leading the pack! Would be interested to hear your own unbiased thoughts.

As much as I'd like our signings to all be permanent it is not in keeping with the
strategy the Malaysian owners are sticking to right now. They are more concerned
with settling our historical debt than they are with spending on players right now.
Every player we BUY becomes a saleable asset. As it stands our 'contracted squad' is
very small and not worth a great deal. The less assets the club has, the stronger the
Malaysians negotiating position with creditors.

I do agree with you re: Ramsey though. He is immediately the best midfielder in this
division and will be superb for us. But will definitely leave a big hole if he does go after
a month. If we can keep him til the end of the season however, we will overtake QPR
soon and win the division

I think using loanees this way is a very clever stratagy. Signing quality like Bellamy, Oli, JET etc would have cost £Millions in transfer fees, which is basically money chucked down a very large black hole.

This way we get them for free for a short period, pay them only when we need them and then send them back when the job is done/not done and we can start again.

Transfer fees are a luxary that many smaller clubs find they can't afford. Aston Villa have just paid at least £18m for Darren Bent, with the real posibility he will be worth nothing in 4 years time and that's after a further investment of at least £10m in wages. Clubs the size of Cardiff City (& QPR for that matter) can't afford anything like that investment and therefore must find another way of doing things.

Evening chaps, glad to see some excitement coming back to this board with your latest signings, things look like they could come to an exciting finish, us signing for the rest of the season, yours and our old mate Routledge, Chimbonda and Ismael Miller, with the likelihood of former R's legend Danny Shittu also coming back, and you guys with Thomas, the Israeli from Blackpool (wow a defender), the lump from Preston and the one that have given the whole of south Wales (well apart from Swansea) a semi, Aaron Ramsey. However, as an outsider looking in I would say that if I supported Cardiff I would be concerned about the effects a one month signing may have on the team, especially the player that he replaces for this short period of time and also the fact about which one of your other 'star loanees' will he displace, given that you can only have five loanees in a match day squad. Effectively signing both the Arsenal lads will mean that you have to drop two other loanees, given that Parkin has just signed and Thomas is a forward I would suggest that either or both Chopra and Bothroyd are on their way. Your owners seem very reluctant to back Jones financially, you have spent bugger all this season in terms of fees and now it seems that a third of your squad aren't even Cardiff players. To me this seems a very dangerous game to play and through our own experience it can go wrong big time and the reason why Warnock wanted to limit the amount of loanees this season. We now have two, Routledge who has been signed with the view to a permanent move and Miller, who I have my doubts over. Still it is all going to be very interesting. We have a decent run of games coming up, but yet we are QPR and we can screw anything up, we still think we are just one point from safety as opposed to leading the pack! Would be interested to hear your own unbiased thoughts.

7 games in said month I'm sure we will have to rotate said loanee's

I think using loanees this way is a very clever stratagy. Signing quality like Bellamy, Oli, JET etc would have cost £Millions in transfer fees, which is basically money chucked down a very large black hole.

This way we get them for free for a short period, pay them only when we need them and then send them back when the job is done/not done and we can start again.

Transfer fees are a luxary that many smaller clubs find they can't afford. Aston Villa have just paid at least £18m for Darren Bent, with the real posibility he will be worth nothing in 4 years time and that's after a further investment of at least £10m in wages. Clubs the size of Cardiff City (& QPR for that matter) can't afford anything like that investment and therefore must find another way of doing things.

actually we can 'afford' players as much as Villa can. The Malaysians have the wealth.
I find it reassuring the way they are going about the business though. In a couple of
years when the new rules governing football finance come in, Arsenal will win the
premier league every year for ten years. Its a brilliantly run club. Wenger is a genius.
Man Utd and Chelsea are miles behind them. Its good we seem to have owners that
dont want to throw money at things. Safer in the long run after the Sam era!!!

I think using loanees this way is a very clever stratagy. Signing quality like Bellamy, Oli, JET etc would have cost £Millions in transfer fees, which is basically money chucked down a very large black hole.

This way we get them for free for a short period, pay them only when we need them and then send them back when the job is done/not done and we can start again.

Transfer fees are a luxary that many smaller clubs find they can't afford. Aston Villa have just paid at least £18m for Darren Bent, with the real posibility he will be worth nothing in 4 years time and that's after a further investment of at least £10m in wages. Clubs the size of Cardiff City (& QPR for that matter) can't afford anything like that investment and therefore must find another way of doing things.

I wouldn't be suprised if the loan fees of JET, Keogh, Ramsey and Drinkwater are more than the transfer fee we paid for Parkin. I would include Bellamy in that but I think his loan was quite unique.

Still alot cheaper than buying the players, but I still think we've had to stump up some cash up front for these guys.

The Kienan signing for you guys will be interesting, given that your defence is dodgy. Again a concern for me would be that he could not get into the Blackpool side or remain as a squad member, and their defence includes the likes of Ian Evatt. Now Evatt isn't a bad footballer, however, we had him for a season and he had the turning circle of a super-tanker. Surely Jones would have been better looking down the leagues than up and gone for a player like Morrison from Swindon who has just moved to Reading for not a massive amount but was highly regarded.

Regarding Ramsey, if he plays instead of McPhail then his inclusion will effectively displace two existing players, not only McPhail but would also have to displace another loanee, same with Thomas and possibly that could put noses out of joint, a difficult balancing act now presents itself for Jones, and as I say, is he and your owners playing a dangerous game?

So your premise is by putting loan players in the first team, Jones will unsettle McPhail to such an extent that it will scupper our season?

Have a day off, bro.

The Malaysian's are very astute businessmen, they want us to get promoted by spending as little as possible. Overall I am delighted with our loanee's and have used the system well, like someone else mentioned we could have thrown money into a black hole and not get promoted.

I'm also impressed with QPR's signings, Warnock is a quality manager who will no doubt deliver premiership football for you next season.

I think DJ has done well during this window. He has brought in Parkin at a steal, Keinan and Jay Emmanuel-Thomas but to be honest I think QPR have probably strengthened better than anyone during the window so far. We may have brought in the best player to move during January (Rambo), but Routledge, Shittu, Miller and I think the brilliant capture of Chimbonda are players who would walk into 99% of Championship squads, and even some Premier squads. But that poses the same problem as the original poster put our way. They are 4 players who expect to be playing week in, week out. Their arrival may well put a few of the noses of QPR's current squad out of joint.

I think its tha same at any club, as soon as a new player comes in, someones place is threatened and someone is not going to be happy.

its a gamble too but if like stoke go up then the gamble is well worth it

Excellent Debate, Cheers QPR