Train Woman ( the nutter ) Good News

I don't want to seem pedantic here but these lads have not been found innocent as they were never charged with any crime, not even anti social behaviour.

Lets face facts what this story confirms is that there was absolutely no case against them in the first place. I for one will be really interested to see how the Trust will handle this now but I won't be holding my breath.

the trust was first mooted on the valley rams board and gwyn and corky were at the forefront of getting behind it

which is why I sometimes despair at the negativity shown towards it

as for the supporters club , you yourself have many times said " why do we need a trust ..we have a supporters club " so you must think I was born yesterday mate ( I wasnt )

my opinion ..we need both !!

Sludge,

The fact remains, what can a Trust do a well organised Supporters Club can't? There's the obvious legal framework required by a Trust, aim towards board representation.

The Supporters Club has been in decline for a while. The Trust superceded the SC to a fair degree.

As I keep saying, it it was formed during the bad old days, I'd fully agree with it. The fact is, the Trust will never have the power it needs to be effective, in terms of board representation.

As I asked, what if the club cut contact with the trust or simply ignored representations? I'd very much doubt it ever would happen, but the trust would instantly be a lame duck organisation, which is sad.

I don't want to seem pedantic here but these lads have not been found innocent as they were never charged with any crime, not even anti social behaviour.

Lets face facts what this story confirms is that there was absolutely no case against them in the first place. I for one will be really interested to see how the Trust will handle this now but I won't be holding my breath.

WELL AGAIN i WOULD USE YOUR RIGHT AS A FAN TO QUESTION THEM ABOUT IT

SEND EM AN EMAIL OR COME TO A MEETING IF YOU FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IT

the trust was first mooted on the valley rams board and gwyn and corky were at the forefront of getting behind it

which is why I sometimes despair at the negativity shown towards it

as for the supporters club , you yourself have many times said " why do we need a trust ..we have a supporters club " so you must think I was born yesterday mate ( I wasnt )

my opinion ..we need both !!

Sludge,

The fact remains, what can a Trust do a well organised Supporters Club can't? There's the obvious legal framework required by a Trust, aim towards board representation.

The Supporters Club has been in decline for a while. The Trust superceded the SC to a fair degree.

As I keep saying, it it was formed during the bad old days, I'd fully agree with it. The fact is, the Trust will never have the power it needs to be effective, in terms of board representation.

As I asked, what if the club cut contact with the trust or simply ignored representations? I'd very much doubt it ever would happen, but the trust would instantly be a lame duck organisation, which is sad.

THE SUPPORTERS CLUB HAS MORE MEMBERS THAN IT HAS HAD FOR YEARS

IN THE OLD DAYS MIKE LAMBERT WOULD RUN 2 COACHES

Pretty obvious to me[/quote]

Sludge, it's a criticism, are the Trust above criticism, I think by healthy debate and brainstorming it can only help to make things better. I feel strongly that the Trust could have done more in this case and in a few other cases if they want to attract the full spectrum of fans that would make it stronger, you may see that as a criticism, I see it as a positive suggestion. [/quote]

ok agreed

come along to next meeting or send an email outlining your valid points to the trust

pm me if you want to chat[/quote]

Did come close at one time to taking a more active role, but personally I think it's beyond saving what ever help is provided.I think the die as been cast and to much damage to the image of what the Trust stands for.

This sis purely my opinion as an individual, I have no agenda, I actually joined from the very start and part of the reason I did not get more involved then was I thought it would damage the Trust and it would be better for it's conception to have some fresh faces at the helm.

It would have been seen as Valley Rams or Inner circle part two, I did hope to see it succeed for all our benefit, but the direction it's heading is different to the one I want to head towards. I like to be part of a broad church, part of what we tried to do at the rams was try and get even the worse behaved fans to feel part of something and to take some responsibility for their own actions and to realise that their bad behavior did have an impact on the club and had played a big part in holding us back for years.

Sadly I can see a large crop of out of control youngster being created in the current crop of support and without some guidance and control they will possibly hold us back again in the very near future.

I think the Trust should be far more active in getting these type of people on board, I believe us the fans should help self police more and stick together.

For most of my life those in charge of the club were almost seen as the enemy as was in anyone in authority, I'd hate it to get back to those days.

Pretty obvious to me

Sludge, it's a criticism, are the Trust above criticism, I think by healthy debate and brainstorming it can only help to make things better. I feel strongly that the Trust could have done more in this case and in a few other cases if they want to attract the full spectrum of fans that would make it stronger, you may see that as a criticism, I see it as a positive suggestion. [/quote]

ok agreed

come along to next meeting or send an email outlining your valid points to the trust

pm me if you want to chat[/quote]

Did come close at one time to taking a more active role, but personally I think it's beyond saving what ever help is provided.I think the die as been cast and to much damage to the image of what the Trust stands for.

YOU DO REALISE WE HAVE MORE MEMBERS THAN BEFORE NOW ?.....HOW IS THAT CORRELATED TO " ITS BEYOND SAVING ? "

YOUR COMMENTS ARE THOSE OF A SMALL MINORITY OF OUR FANS GWYN ...FOR EVERY PERSON ON HERE WHO SAYS THEY DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE TRUST OR THINK ITS USELESS THERE ARE 850 WHO THINK ITS GOOD ENOUGH TO BE A MEMBER AND REJOIN YEAR ON YEAR ..THATS MORE THAN A MINORITY

This sis purely my opinion as an individual, I have no agenda, I actually joined from the very start and part of the reason I did not get more involved then was I thought it would damage the Trust and it would be better for it's conception to have some fresh faces at the helm.

I THINK THAT THE TRUST NEEDS A BOOT UP THE ARSE , ON THAT WE AGREE

It would have been seen as Valley Rams or Inner circle part two, I did hope to see it succeed for all our benefit, but the direction it's heading is different to the one I want to head towards. I like to be part of a broad church, part of what we tried to do at the rams was try and get even the worse behaved fans to feel part of something and to take some responsibility for their own actions and to realise that their bad behavior did have an impact on the club and had played a big part in holding us back for years.

WHAT DIRECTION IS IT HEADED GWYN THAT YOU DONT LIKE ?..TELL US

Sadly I can see a large crop of out of control youngster being created in the current crop of support and without some guidance and control they will possibly hold us back again in the very near future.

THATS WHAT THE ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR INITIATIVE WAS ABOUT ...BUT SADLY PEOPLE ON HERE TOOK THE PISS ..SORRY BUT THATS A FACT !!

I think the Trust should be far more active in getting these type of people on board, I believe us the fans should help self police more and stick together.

For most of my life those in charge of the club were almost seen as the enemy as was in anyone in authority, I'd hate it to get back to those days.[/quote]

SO WOULD I

pm me gwyn

come along to the next trust meeting and then we can discuss this matter

you have a valid point , lets talk about it

you feel the trust should have got involved , put your points over to the trust at the next meeting

look forward to hearing from you

Sludge, that's a fair enough suggestion and may be it is a good idea that a few of us from AAMB could attend the next Trust open meeting an put our concerns to you.

However, in the meantime would it be OK to discuss our collective misgivings and possible suggestions to the Trust Board on this public message board without being accused of 'Trust Bashing?'

pm me gwyn

come along to the next trust meeting and then we can discuss this matter

you have a valid point , lets talk about it

you feel the trust should have got involved , put your points over to the trust at the next meeting

look forward to hearing from you

Sludge, that's a fair enough suggestion and may be it is a good idea that a few of us from AAMB could attend the next Trust open meeting an put our concerns to you.

However, in the meantime would it be OK to discuss our collective misgivings and possible suggestions to the Trust Board on this public message board without being accused of 'Trust Bashing?'

anybody can attend a trust open meeting


well you can say what you like but if I read them and it seems ( to me ) like its another case of childish trust bashing then you better be aware that I will use my membership of this board to challenge it

pm me gwyn

come along to the next trust meeting and then we can discuss this matter

you have a valid point , lets talk about it

you feel the trust should have got involved , put your points over to the trust at the next meeting

look forward to hearing from you

Sludge, that's a fair enough suggestion and may be it is a good idea that a few of us from AAMB could attend the next Trust open meeting an put our concerns to you.

However, in the meantime would it be OK to discuss our collective misgivings and possible suggestions to the Trust Board on this public message board without being accused of 'Trust Bashing?'

anybody can attend a trust open meeting


well you can say what you like but if I read them and it seems ( to me ) like its another case of childish trust bashing then you better be aware that I will use my membership of this board to challenge it

Fine but you have to understand that no-one or any organisation is above critisim. Being over sensitive isn't always a good thing.

constructive critisism is fine

why dont you come along as an individual tony ?

you are not elected as a " rep " for aamb

this isnt an us v you issue

its asking if the trust should could and can do anything about the train lads

it appears that vince alm dealt with them directly

what did he have to say ?

I think the fact that these ten lads have no case to answer is all that really matters...it looked really bad for them and in this instance CCTV has aided them...imagine the public feeling without this evidence...a 41 year old lady, 5 year old son, and elderly husband supposedly abused by up to 30 lads...the family against 30 pissed up City fans...lol...5 year bans, a police record, possible loss of employment, local bad feeling aimed at them...

I think the trust members should email the Trust board at anytime they feel that the Trust should get involved with anything, especially if they feel strongly about it and the Trust board hav done nothing.

A supporters Trust is a legal nightmare to set up and the constitution and financial aspects of a Trust can only be done by the top legal and finace experts who then have to follow the government guidlines set up and controlled by the supporters Direct organisation...look at their website to understand more about a Trust.

http://www.supporters-direct.coop/home.asp?reg=engwal

Getting it up and running when Ridsdale was here and we were in court every five minutes made things easier for those involved at the time and in a time of crisis that threatens the very existance of a football club membership grows quickly.

Portsmouth were in serious trouble recently and urgently set up a Trust to help the fans there.

So what does a supporters Trust do when you are quite a large club with billionaire owners?

That is the question and its difficult to support something that is basically a safety net in time of crisis, its a similar senario at other clubs like Arsenal but they keep the Trusts going.Keeping good dialect with the club is important as are community projects like the Fred Keenor statue campaign and the proposed memorial garden.

The board members need help and will gladly accept help and advice, in fact anyone can becaome a board member and run the trust providing the follow the constitution of it.

here are the most frequently asked questions and answers

http://www.supporters-direct.coop/page.asp?p=2074

There are over 160 Trusts in England and Wales, should we just give ours up?

Its a voluntary organisation, no pay, no expenses, time consuming and very open to criticism.

You may not like what they do, or don't do in this case, you may not like the volunteers who run it or their views, but in my opinion I am glad its there, hopefully it will never have to be used for the purpose of raising our club from the ashes.

If the Malaysians walk away or

corky , perfectly put

if people are concerned about the trust , feel it should do more for these lads etc then please let them know rather than just post on here

it doesnt get anywhere

best wishes all

I don't want to seem pedantic here but these lads have not been found innocent as they were never charged with any crime, not even anti social behaviour.

Lets face facts what this story confirms is that there was absolutely no case against them in the first place. I for one will be really interested to see how the Trust will handle this now but I won't be holding my breath.

they cant do anything now, IT'S too late. any involvment now would be frown upon as much as all the plastic fans coming out of the woodwork post promotion. ( hope )

the support or, use of a fan based foundation should of happened the moment the incident was reported, then once proven than there was nothing to answer too, the trust could have seeked for a public appologie by all forms of media who condoned their supposed actions to each indiviual. by way of recognition

lets face it the trust didnt have to say we are backing these because they are cardiff fans, they only had to say as a foundation built by cardiff fans they would help to resolve the issue and offer advice to the individuals, and if the offenderes were found GUILTY would support any punishment enforced by the courts FA and club.

I don't want to seem pedantic here but these lads have not been found innocent as they were never charged with any crime, not even anti social behaviour.

Lets face facts what this story confirms is that there was absolutely no case against them in the first place. I for one will be really interested to see how the Trust will handle this now but I won't be holding my breath.

WELL AGAIN i WOULD USE YOUR RIGHT AS A FAN TO QUESTION THEM ABOUT IT

SEND EM AN EMAIL OR COME TO A MEETING IF YOU FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IT

On match days I quite often use this train service from Caerphilly to travel to games and the whole episode has left a bad taste as far as I'm concerned. Do I think the Trust are responsible, NO, do I think the trust could have done more YES.

I have on a number of occasions been handed trust documents outside the ground and I do respect the fact the people involved volunteer for this work, but if I were a member and I would feel let down by the Trust.

As an ordinary fan who uses this train service, never drinks before or after games and in over 40 years supporting the Bluebirds has never been in any sort of trouble I feel branded a "Drunken Cardiff City Hooligan" because of this incident.

I have watched Gwyn on Sky Sports News a few times and IMO he has done more for the image of Cardiff City fans than the trust ever has. I should be a prime target for the supporters trust rather than attend meetings perhaps the trust should ask why it cannot attract someone like myself as a member.

Not intended as trust bashing just saying becoming a member doesn't hold any attraction to me.

I don't want to seem pedantic here but these lads have not been found innocent as they were never charged with any crime, not even anti social behaviour.

Lets face facts what this story confirms is that there was absolutely no case against them in the first place. I for one will be really interested to see how the Trust will handle this now but I won't be holding my breath.

they cant do anything now, IT'S too late. any involvment now would be frown upon as much as all the plastic fans coming out of the woodwork post promotion. ( hope )

the support or, use of a fan based foundation should of happened the moment the incident was reported, then once proven than there was nothing to answer too, the trust could have seeked for a public appologie by all forms of media who condoned their supposed actions to each indiviual. by way of recognition

thats fair enough , I think thats perfectlly valid point

THIS POST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUST SO LET THEM CONCERNTRATE ALL THEIR TIME AND EFFORTS WORRYING ABOUT THE NAME OF A PUB

i would just like to say a big thank you to annis and all the members on this forum for backing us and doing everything possible to get our sides of the story out there, annis has never doubted our story for one second and it means a lot,

at last we have justice !

cheers guys

I don't want to seem pedantic here but these lads have not been found innocent as they were never charged with any crime, not even anti social behaviour.

Lets face facts what this story confirms is that there was absolutely no case against them in the first place. I for one will be really interested to see how the Trust will handle this now but I won't be holding my breath.

WELL AGAIN i WOULD USE YOUR RIGHT AS A FAN TO QUESTION THEM ABOUT IT

SEND EM AN EMAIL OR COME TO A MEETING IF YOU FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IT

On match days I quite often use this train service from Caerphilly to travel to games and the whole episode has left a bad taste as far as I'm concerned. Do I think the Trust are responsible, NO, do I think the trust could have done more YES.

fair enough but we have had very few people directly contacting us and saying we should have done something ....

I have on a number of occasions been handed trust documents outside the ground and I do respect the fact the people involved volunteer for this work, but if I were a member and I would feel let down by the Trust.

in what way .....if you were one of these lads and a trust member ?

As an ordinary fan who uses this train service, never drinks before or after games and in over 40 years supporting the Bluebirds has never been in any sort of trouble I feel branded a "Drunken Cardiff City Hooligan" because of this incident.

I can understand that ...why not write to the echo ..after all they ran this stupid story

I have watched Gwyn on Sky Sports News a few times and IMO he has done more for the image of Cardiff City fans than the trust ever has. I should be a prime target for the supporters trust rather than attend meetings perhaps the trust should ask why it cannot attract someone like myself as a member.

because you are not interested ?

Not intended as trust bashing just saying becoming a member doesn't hold any attraction to me.

THIS POST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUST SO LET THEM CONCERNTRATE ALL THEIR TIME AND EFFORTS WORRYING ABOUT THE NAME OF A PUB

i would just like to say a big thank you to annis and all the members on this forum for backing us and doing everything possible to get our sides of the story out there, annis has never doubted our story for one second and it means a lot,

at last we have justice !

cheers guys

several months ago I was approached by a person who posts on this forum who said he would act on your behalf

as far as I know vince alm did so

[quote="ristey1927"]THIS POST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUST SO LET THEM CONCERNTRATE ALL THEIR TIME AND EFFORTS WORRYING ABOUT THE NAME OF A PUB

yes it has , gwyn has questioned the trust on this issue in this thread ..and he has some valid points which I have taken to the ccmb as well

Don't know if already been posted by Cardiff fans won't get any criminal charges

http://bit.ly/i04Gsd

Hope link works I'm on my phone

Stupid f*cking nutter!

Great to hear and Glad that This Forum and the majority of its Members were able to Show their Support for Fellow CIty Fans , I cant believe the Woman has Not been Charged herself.

lets face it the trust didnt have to say we are backing these because they are cardiff fans, they only had to say as a foundation built by cardiff fans they would help to resolve the issue and offer advice to the individuals, and if the offenderes were found GUILTY would support any punishment enforced by the courts FA and club.

Exactly, but deal with it good or bad.

Sludge, please don't think this is a pop at you, I know you feel passionately about the club and the Trust, lot's of us have different views and opinions. Hope you don't think it's personal, in fact I feel you gain far more support by at least debating the points, I'm sure you are not even a board member of the trust, just a committed member and I'm sure you hope and wish the trust succeeds and are trying to achieve that from within.

I hope you succeed,for all our sakes, but if it intends reaching out to the masses and growing accordingly then there needs to be some radical changes in my opinion, but that is just one person opinion and if the majority of our fans are happy with the direction the Trust is taking then good on them.

One question I will ask, as for present membership, when i joind I signed up for four of us in my family, (I believe Corky got everyone in his family from the third cosuin twice removed up to the next door neighbour (exaggerated for comic value ) what is the true picture of unique household that have a membership. it could be as low as 300or as high as 500 from what I can gather.

I have watched Gwyn on Sky Sports News a few times and IMO he has done more for the image of Cardiff City fans than the trust ever has. I should be a prime target for the supporters trust rather than attend meetings perhaps the trust should ask why it cannot attract someone like myself as a member.

because you are not interested ?

Corrected Sludge's horrendous quoting...

Getting to this point, though, Sludge, surely your attitude is wrong on this?

900 out of the crowds we've been getting, clearly, the vast majority aren't currently interested.

Surely it's more productive for the Trust to ask themselves *why* people aren't interested and what can be done to *get* peoples interest? It just reads to me, intended or not, that you're giving up on getting someone like castleblue into the trust.

I have watched Gwyn on Sky Sports News a few times and IMO he has done more for the image of Cardiff City fans than the trust ever has. I should be a prime target for the supporters trust rather than attend meetings perhaps the trust should ask why it cannot attract someone like myself as a member.

because you are not interested ?

Corrected Sludge's horrendous quoting...

Getting to this point, though, Sludge, surely your attitude is wrong on this?

900 out of the crowds we've been getting, clearly, the vast majority aren't currently interested.

Surely it's more productive for the Trust to ask themselves *why* people aren't interested and what can be done to *get* peoples interest? It just reads to me, intended or not, that you're giving up on getting someone like castleblue into the trust.

hes not interested from what I can see

he says earlier on he doesnt know what the trust is about yet hes said hes been given leaflets outside the stadium and then says if he was a member he would feel let down

pointless trying to continually argue really is it ?

Sludge, please don't think this is a pop at you, I know you feel passionately about the club and the Trust, lot's of us have different views and opinions. Hope you don't think it's personal, in fact I feel you gain far more support by at least debating the points, I'm sure you are not even a board member of the trust, just a committed member and I'm sure you hope and wish the trust succeeds and are trying to achieve that from within.

I hope you succeed,for all our sakes, but if it intends reaching out to the masses and growing accordingly then there needs to be some radical changes in my opinion, but that is just one person opinion and if the majority of our fans are happy with the direction the Trust is taking then good on them.

cheers gwyn

As far as I know we have had very little in the way of emails regarding the train lads issue


they were asked to contact the trust about the matter

One question I will ask, as for present membership, when i joind I signed up for four of us in my family, (I believe Corky got everyone in his family from the third cosuin twice removed up to the next door neighbour (exaggerated for comic value ) what is the true picture of unique household that have a membership. it could be as low as 300or as high as 500 from what I can gather.

ask the membership secretary via the trust e mail gwyn or come along to the next open meeting and ask the board then , I dont have those details

the trust has more members than the bristol city trust that has been going far far longer

as for this incident there was no way a supporters trust could get involved pre any sort of trial

as for a statement gwyn why dont you , as a concerned member , send an email to the trust outlining your concerns ...for they are valid ....and ask the trust to make a statement ?

its surely got to better than complaining about it on a messagebaord ?

''


Made plenty of suggestions at the time,

DIDNT GET ANY OF THEM AT THE TRUST AS FAR AS I AM AWARE , YOU HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT IT ON HERE

and why can't the Trust get involved pre trial, its then the lads neede support, not afterwards when they get found innocent, they don't need defending then.

Surely a fans Trust should support all the fans, or is it just the ones pass an interview panel.
Our fan base like it or not covers the full spectrum, and some of them need guidance, isn't that what we should be doing.

Should we distance ourselves from these people or make them welcome and help them to change for the better and help them fit in as an acceptable member of society.

the trust has more members than the bristol city trust that has been going far far longer

as for this incident there was no way a supporters trust could get involved pre any sort of trial

as for a statement gwyn why dont you , as a concerned member , send an email to the trust outlining your concerns ...for they are valid ....and ask the trust to make a statement ?

its surely got to better than complaining about it on a messagebaord ?

''


Made plenty of suggestions at the time,

DIDNT GET ANY OF THEM AT THE TRUST AS FAR AS I AM AWARE , YOU HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT IT ON HERE

and why can't the Trust get involved pre trial, its then the lads neede support, not afterwards when they get found innocent, they don't need defending then.


SEE CORKYS POINT ...ITS A LEGAL SITUATION .....WE ARE NOT LAWYERS

Surely a fans Trust should support all the fans, or is it just the ones pass an interview panel.
Our fan base like it or not covers the full spectrum, and some of them need guidance, isn't that what we should be doing.

Should we distance ourselves from these people or make them welcome and help them to change for the better and help them fit in as an acceptable member of society.

It's true that once the Police Investigation is under way the Trust would have been prevented from speaking out in defence of the supporters on that train.

However, there was nothing preventing them from issuing a statement pointing out that the matter is under investigation and all those involved had denied any allegations of anti-social behaviour.

Surely the point raised was about the very negative image of ALL our supporters by the malicious claims of this deranged woman. The media including newspapers, radio and television all automatically praised this woman' bravery in standing up to hooligan football fans.

There are good and bad throughout society, this woman proves it, but we all know that the vast majority of city fans are well behaved and have no intention of causing trouble or inconvenience to anyone, let alone women.

The press behaved this way because they want to continue portraying us as all hooligans.

Members of this board contacted the press complaints commission (Taffyapple) being one of them to object to the coverage and try to redress the negative publicity.

So Sludge, should the Trust have got involved, in my humble opinion YES, we all have to try and stop this very negative image and you as a representative body should have been pro-active during this. If you only want to represent your members that's your
decision but please don't forget that your members are also being portrayed as hooligans as well.