" CLUBS IN DEBT/FINANCIAL TROUBLE "

I am starting to Realise that if You want Any Sort of Real Success in Football Nowadays then Your Club has to get in Serious Debt.
We are prob one of at least 40 Clubs, Millions in Debt.
The point I am trying to get across is, to stay in this League and Challenge Every year to try and get to the Premiership, You will get Further and Further in Debt, But if you dont do This, The Fans will turn on the Club they Love and Many just stop going.

I can only think of 2 clubs who never get in Serious Debt ANYMORE.

The Jacks and Fairplay they are challenging for the 2nd yr running and Scunthorpe but will usually always go back down.

Any Comments/Opinions ?

Or Do you know of any other Clubs Not in Debt ?

Our Debt Currently stands at about £30 Mill if All paid before Dec 31st, I found out last night at a meeting, Ours could go to about £50 million after Xmas if Certain Current Debts are not Sorted in Full.

i agree with your post annis,but personally i dont think the jacks are on that good a financial footing they make out.not on the gates they are having.and all these ticket deals that are being offered.

i agree with your post annis,but personally i dont think the jacks are on that good a financial footing they make out.not on the gates they are having.and all these ticket deals that are being offered.

Ive been told they have No Debt whats so ever at the moment.

I always thought Bolton were a well run club but are 94m in debt
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 184148.stm

stand corrected.

what does our debt currently roughly stand at?

Look at Bolton. £90m in debt, looking to sell players in Jan and have been in premier league for a prolonged period. All under the stewardship fo phil gartside, who is involved with various Fa and premier league committees and is supposed to be a sensible chariman.

what does our debt currently roughly stand at?

Milly it Currently stands at about £30 Mill if All paid before Dec 31st, I found out last night at a meeting, Ours could go to about £50 million after Xmas if Certain Current Debts are not Sorted in Full.

scunthorpe just announced a loss of £430.000.id settle for that,

sorry £480.914 year ending 30th june 2010.

scunthorpe just announced a loss of £430.000.id settle for that,

Sorry it must of been the year before when they announced they HAD NO DEBT.

seriously we would all settle for that being a champioship club.

If 30 million then no wonder VT is all guns blazing for premiership. New stadium with gteed 26,000 gates would be a killing for him if he sold us on for say 100 million. And with premiership money could see a lot of people interested in that deal. If we can go up we will be looking good.

scunthorpe just announced a loss of £430.000.id settle for that,

Sorry it must of been the year before when they announced they HAD NO DEBT.

They may still not be in debt, just that they have posted a loss for that year.

Too many clubs chase the deam the expensive way - as we've seen, yet some more shrewd clubs and managers have achieved success on a shoestring budget.

I do believe that a big club will go to the wall within two years. And yes in reality it could end up being us. Yes the Jacks dont have debt but they dont own there own ground either so they are not worth much but if they got to the promised land that would change. Player greed will be the death warrant of many teams, if Sky was to pull the plug it would finish of most clubs and that worries me as it could hold football to ransom.

i agree with your post annis,but personally i dont think the jacks are on that good a financial footing they make out.not on the gates they are having.and all these ticket deals that are being offered.

Ive been told they have No Debt whats so ever at the moment.

They may have no or little debt but the only assets they have are their playing staff. And the main reason they are in debt free is because no banking institute will lend to them.

Clubs who are succeeding will be in debt and it is not just football clubs but nearly all big business' are in debt and the bigger they become the more debt the accrue.

With regards to a football club this is no different and like us and our debt, as we become more successful and hopefully reach the Premier League our borrowings and outgoings become bigger.

i agree with your post annis,but personally i dont think the jacks are on that good a financial footing they make out.not on the gates they are having.and all these ticket deals that are being offered.

Ive been told they have No Debt whats so ever at the moment.

What about debts to police and vetch field stuff?

If the pikeys have no debts the only reason is their cva where they paid 5p in the pound. Had they been made to pay the full debt theyd still be in lower leagues.

I do believe that a big club will go to the wall within two years. And yes in reality it could end up being us. Yes the Jacks dont have debt but they dont own there own ground either so they are not worth much but if they got to the promised land that would change. Player greed will be the death warrant of many teams, if Sky was to pull the plug it would finish of most clubs and that worries me as it could hold football to ransom.

Two clubs have been liquidated up here(Scotland for those of who don't know me!) in the last 8 years and it still doesn't serve as a wake up call., especially to the likes of Dundee who are in administration for the second time in around the same period. There has to be stricter procedures in place, taking into account the current situation. Wage caps and the like have to be considered as well and a leveller playing field brought back in. Chasing the dream doesn't always work, but what price is to be paid beofre we find out how badly it doesn't work?

It really does amuse me when I read about the Jacks being a well run club and debt free, I would agree about being a well run club but being debt free is absolutely nonsense.

It is a fact that SCFC took out a debenture mortgage with OTH Ltd (Hedge Fund) of 20 Bedford Road London on 30th December 2009 secured amongst other things ALL assests including players. Therefore any money received from the sale of say Pratley would go to this company, unless they agree otherwise. If anyone wamts to know how dangerous debenture mortgages are they should call Simon Jordan.

Swansea city also lost just short of £1m for the year ending May 2009, this despite receiving compensation for St Bob and the transfer fee for Jason Scotland from Wigan. I understand their loss is worse, although not on a par with ours, for the year ending May 2010.

I say they are a well run club because of the con that is taking place against the ratepayers of Swansea, who are the owners of the Liberty Stadium.

Besides pay £33m to build the Liberty Stadium the Council also took out a Chattells mortgage for £2.37m to fit out the hospitality area of the Liberty. All tables, Chairs, Plates, Cups, Knives, Forks and off course the ice machine for the home dressing room together with the 350v electric supply was paid for by this mortgage.

To date not a single penny has been paid off this mortgage although SCFC receive approx £1m per year in revenue from the hopspitality areas where the tables, chairs, knives, forks etc are used. The councils auditors have been questioning this situation for years and now the council have agreed to write off the mortgage. How much did Cardiff City pay to fit out the hospitality areas at CCS, I know some are still waiting to be paid, but how much income does our club receive absolutely nothing. PMG gets it all.

That takes you to the next point Swansea Council paid the cost of building the Liberty Stadium and to date have not received a single penny in repayment. Overall to date SCFC have received more money than they have paid for using the Liberty. SCFC also have their club store rent free from the Liberty Stadium or should I say council because the Council pay all the electicity and receive no rates or rent, the council also paid for all signage on the store it's absolutely unbelievable.

All match day stewards, match day policing, ticket office staff are paid for by the Stadium Management Company, Cardiff City pay this themselves. All income from non football events is paid into the stadium management company accounts and used to offset the running costs for sporting events. Whilst the owners still wait to receive a single penny in return for their £33m investment.

Believe me SCFC would be bankrupt without this con but it won't last forever because by the time this government has cut it's support to the Welsh Assembly and they pass the cut onto the local councils in Wales, Swansea County Council will have such a hole in it's finances that they will be forced to do something about it.

Ask yourself this what would a £2-3m annual subsidy from Cardiff Council do for our club.

It really does amuse me when I read about the Jacks being a well run club and debt free, I would agree about being a well run club but being debt free is absolutely nonsense.

It is a fact that SCFC took out a debenture mortgage with OTH Ltd (Hedge Fund) of 20 Bedford Road London on 30th December 2009 secured amongst other things ALL assests including players. Therefore any money received from the sale of say Pratley would go to this company, unless they agree otherwise. If anyone wamts to know how dangerous debenture mortgages are they should call Simon Jordan.

Swansea city also lost just short of £1m for the year ending May 2009, this despite receiving compensation for St Bob and the transfer fee for Jason Scotland from Wigan. I understand their loss is worse, although not on a par with ours, for the year ending May 2010.

I say they are a well run club because of the con that is taking place against the ratepayers of Swansea, who are the owners of the Liberty Stadium.

Besides pay £33m to build the Liberty Stadium the Council also took out a Chattells mortgage for £2.37m to fit out the hospitality area of the Liberty. All tables, Chairs, Plates, Cups, Knives, Forks and off course the ice machine for the home dressing room together with the 350v electric supply was paid for by this mortgage.

To date not a single penny has been paid off this mortgage although SCFC receive approx £1m per year in revenue from the hopspitality areas where the tables, chairs, knives, forks etc are used. The councils auditors have been questioning this situation for years and now the council have agreed to write off the mortgage. How much did Cardiff City pay to fit out the hospitality areas at CCS, I know some are still waiting to be paid, but how much income does our club receive absolutely nothing. PMG gets it all.

That takes you to the next point Swansea Council paid the cost of building the Liberty Stadium and to date have not received a single penny in repayment. Overall to date SCFC have received more money than they have paid for using the Liberty. SCFC also have their club store rent free from the Liberty Stadium or should I say council because the Council pay all the electicity and receive no rates or rent, the council also paid for all signage on the store it's absolutely unbelievable.

All match day stewards, match day policing, ticket office staff are paid for by the Stadium Management Company, Cardiff City pay this themselves. All income from non football events is paid into the stadium management company accounts and used to offset the running costs for sporting events. Whilst the owners still wait to receive a single penny in return for their £33m investment.

Believe me SCFC would be bankrupt without this con but it won't last forever because by the time this government has cut it's support to the Welsh Assembly and they pass the cut onto the local councils in Wales, Swansea County Council will have such a hole in it's finances that they will be forced to do something about it.

Ask yourself this what would a £2-3m annual subsidy from Cardiff Council do for our club.

What an excellent posy, very informative and quite startling, I think I may just bookmark this one for future reference

It really does amuse me when I read about the Jacks being a well run club and debt free, I would agree about being a well run club but being debt free is absolutely nonsense.

It is a fact that SCFC took out a debenture mortgage with OTH Ltd (Hedge Fund) of 20 Bedford Road London on 30th December 2009 secured amongst other things ALL assests including players. Therefore any money received from the sale of say Pratley would go to this company, unless they agree otherwise. If anyone wamts to know how dangerous debenture mortgages are they should call Simon Jordan.

Swansea city also lost just short of £1m for the year ending May 2009, this despite receiving compensation for St Bob and the transfer fee for Jason Scotland from Wigan. I understand their loss is worse, although not on a par with ours, for the year ending May 2010.

I say they are a well run club because of the con that is taking place against the ratepayers of Swansea, who are the owners of the Liberty Stadium.

Besides pay £33m to build the Liberty Stadium the Council also took out a Chattells mortgage for £2.37m to fit out the hospitality area of the Liberty. All tables, Chairs, Plates, Cups, Knives, Forks and off course the ice machine for the home dressing room together with the 350v electric supply was paid for by this mortgage.

To date not a single penny has been paid off this mortgage although SCFC receive approx £1m per year in revenue from the hopspitality areas where the tables, chairs, knives, forks etc are used. The councils auditors have been questioning this situation for years and now the council have agreed to write off the mortgage. How much did Cardiff City pay to fit out the hospitality areas at CCS, I know some are still waiting to be paid, but how much income does our club receive absolutely nothing. PMG gets it all.

That takes you to the next point Swansea Council paid the cost of building the Liberty Stadium and to date have not received a single penny in repayment. Overall to date SCFC have received more money than they have paid for using the Liberty. SCFC also have their club store rent free from the Liberty Stadium or should I say council because the Council pay all the electicity and receive no rates or rent, the council also paid for all signage on the store it's absolutely unbelievable.

All match day stewards, match day policing, ticket office staff are paid for by the Stadium Management Company, Cardiff City pay this themselves. All income from non football events is paid into the stadium management company accounts and used to offset the running costs for sporting events. Whilst the owners still wait to receive a single penny in return for their £33m investment.

Believe me SCFC would be bankrupt without this con but it won't last forever because by the time this government has cut it's support to the Welsh Assembly and they pass the cut onto the local councils in Wales, Swansea County Council will have such a hole in it's finances that they will be forced to do something about it.

Ask yourself this what would a £2-3m annual subsidy from Cardiff Council do for our club.

add to that the £4.3m they owe neath port talbot council

It really does amuse me when I read about the Jacks being a well run club and debt free, I would agree about being a well run club but being debt free is absolutely nonsense.

It is a fact that SCFC took out a debenture mortgage with OTH Ltd (Hedge Fund) of 20 Bedford Road London on 30th December 2009 secured amongst other things ALL assests including players. Therefore any money received from the sale of say Pratley would go to this company, unless they agree otherwise. If anyone wamts to know how dangerous debenture mortgages are they should call Simon Jordan.

Swansea city also lost just short of £1m for the year ending May 2009, this despite receiving compensation for St Bob and the transfer fee for Jason Scotland from Wigan. I understand their loss is worse, although not on a par with ours, for the year ending May 2010.

I say they are a well run club because of the con that is taking place against the ratepayers of Swansea, who are the owners of the Liberty Stadium.

Besides pay £33m to build the Liberty Stadium the Council also took out a Chattells mortgage for £2.37m to fit out the hospitality area of the Liberty. All tables, Chairs, Plates, Cups, Knives, Forks and off course the ice machine for the home dressing room together with the 350v electric supply was paid for by this mortgage.

To date not a single penny has been paid off this mortgage although SCFC receive approx £1m per year in revenue from the hopspitality areas where the tables, chairs, knives, forks etc are used. The councils auditors have been questioning this situation for years and now the council have agreed to write off the mortgage. How much did Cardiff City pay to fit out the hospitality areas at CCS, I know some are still waiting to be paid, but how much income does our club receive absolutely nothing. PMG gets it all.

That takes you to the next point Swansea Council paid the cost of building the Liberty Stadium and to date have not received a single penny in repayment. Overall to date SCFC have received more money than they have paid for using the Liberty. SCFC also have their club store rent free from the Liberty Stadium or should I say council because the Council pay all the electicity and receive no rates or rent, the council also paid for all signage on the store it's absolutely unbelievable.

All match day stewards, match day policing, ticket office staff are paid for by the Stadium Management Company, Cardiff City pay this themselves. All income from non football events is paid into the stadium management company accounts and used to offset the running costs for sporting events. Whilst the owners still wait to receive a single penny in return for their £33m investment.

Believe me SCFC would be bankrupt without this con but it won't last forever because by the time this government has cut it's support to the Welsh Assembly and they pass the cut onto the local councils in Wales, Swansea County Council will have such a hole in it's finances that they will be forced to do something about it.

Ask yourself this what would a £2-3m annual subsidy from Cardiff Council do for our club.

add to that the £4.3m they owe neath port talbot council

Is that a fact? Hope it is

It really does amuse me when I read about the Jacks being a well run club and debt free, I would agree about being a well run club but being debt free is absolutely nonsense.

It is a fact that SCFC took out a debenture mortgage with OTH Ltd (Hedge Fund) of 20 Bedford Road London on 30th December 2009 secured amongst other things ALL assests including players. Therefore any money received from the sale of say Pratley would go to this company, unless they agree otherwise. If anyone wamts to know how dangerous debenture mortgages are they should call Simon Jordan.

Swansea city also lost just short of £1m for the year ending May 2009, this despite receiving compensation for St Bob and the transfer fee for Jason Scotland from Wigan. I understand their loss is worse, although not on a par with ours, for the year ending May 2010.

Both these points are inaccurate.

The Mortgage taken out was with Martin Morgan, not a hedge fund.

The compensation for Martinez and transfer of Scotland both took place after May 2009 therefore it would have been rather tricky to include them in the accounts up to May 2009 don't you think?

add to that the £4.3m they owe neath port talbot council

This is nonsesne as shown by the fact that this supposed debt doesn't now, nor has ever shown up on SCFC accounts?

It really does amuse me when I read about the Jacks being a well run club and debt free, I would agree about being a well run club but being debt free is absolutely nonsense.

It is a fact that SCFC took out a debenture mortgage with OTH Ltd (Hedge Fund) of 20 Bedford Road London on 30th December 2009 secured amongst other things ALL assests including players. Therefore any money received from the sale of say Pratley would go to this company, unless they agree otherwise. If anyone wamts to know how dangerous debenture mortgages are they should call Simon Jordan.

Swansea city also lost just short of £1m for the year ending May 2009, this despite receiving compensation for St Bob and the transfer fee for Jason Scotland from Wigan. I understand their loss is worse, although not on a par with ours, for the year ending May 2010.

Both these points are inaccurate.

The Mortgage taken out was with Martin Morgan, not a hedge fund.

The compensation for Martinez and transfer of Scotland both took place after May 2009 therefore it would have been rather tricky to include them in the accounts up to May 2009 don't you think?

Not according to the copy filed at Companies House I have a copy it cost me £1. But if you know differently I would be glad to inform Companies House that SCFC have filed a false document.

Last edited by castleblue on Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

It really does amuse me when I read about the Jacks being a well run club and debt free, I would agree about being a well run club but being debt free is absolutely nonsense.

It is a fact that SCFC took out a debenture mortgage with OTH Ltd (Hedge Fund) of 20 Bedford Road London on 30th December 2009 secured amongst other things ALL assests including players. Therefore any money received from the sale of say Pratley would go to this company, unless they agree otherwise. If anyone wamts to know how dangerous debenture mortgages are they should call Simon Jordan.

Swansea city also lost just short of £1m for the year ending May 2009, this despite receiving compensation for St Bob and the transfer fee for Jason Scotland from Wigan. I understand their loss is worse, although not on a par with ours, for the year ending May 2010.

Both these points are inaccurate.

The Mortgage taken out was with Martin Morgan, not a hedge fund.

Not according to the copy filed at Companies House I have a copy it cost me £1. But if you know differently I would be glad to inform Companies House that SCFC have filed a flase document.

The compensation for Martinez and transfer of Scotland both took place after May 2009 therefore it would have been rather tricky to include them in the accounts up to May 2009 don't you think?

Do a little research as to who owns that company.

Here you go

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/69e8a ... order?ft=1

Do a little research as to who owns that company.[/quote]


I have OTH is a hedgefund, high risk investment for high profit. I notice you haven't challenged anything relating to the con on the ratepayers of Swansea.

I understand that the jacks have no debt - well all I can say about that is its a bloody good job they don't!!!!! - They have no tangeable assets to sell if they were !! They rent their ground from the council, and have no other business deals on the go !!! their gate is not good to say the least and they have no potential for making money for their future.... They would have to sell their players!! This would leave them without any kind of hope to further their position within football..... In this day and age you have to speculate to survive in the business of football....... Its not good to have debt, but lets be honest - how many people can honestly say that they run a business without any debt what so ever !!!????? -

It would be excellent if we were debt free - however we would prob be in the lower leagures or even out of them completely ...... IMO