John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

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John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Bluebina » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:32 pm

What an ego, trying to stop parliament doing its job, it may not make any difference anyway, because they are making a hash of it anyway, but he is overstepping the mark IMO.

I expect they will find a loophole to have another vote, or maybe Europe will give a bit more on the backstop, to change things enough for one more vote before an extension?
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John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Bluebina » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:39 pm

Bluebina wrote:What an ego, trying to stop parliament doing its job, it may not make any difference anyway, because they are making a hash of it anyway, but he is overstepping the mark IMO.

I expect they will find a loophole to have another vote, or maybe Europe will give a bit more on the backstop, to change things enough for one more vote before an extension?



Sorry Bercow - or maybe I was right the first time Berk-ow :laughing6:

Here's what came up on google
What does Berk mean in English slang
Etymology. The usage dates from the 1930s; berk is a shortened version of Berkeley Hunt, the hunt based at Berkeley Castle, in Gloucestershire. In Cockney rhyming slang, hunt is a rhyme for c**t, giving the word its original slang meaning.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby wez1927 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:22 pm

good her deal is shit
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby worcester_ccfc » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:28 pm

If the house vote on anything and it’s rejected, does the same thing unaltered go back to the house a second or third time? No.

Bercow is right here, and just following what the house has done since 1604.

Nobody wants May’s deal anyway.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby phildavies » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:29 pm

He’s not stopping the vote he is doing his job the PM can’t keep bringing back the same deal to try to bully it through it’s an awful deal and has rightly been rejected. It needs to be improved or we need to leave without a deal.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Bridgend_bluebird » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:33 pm

Good on him. And as others pointed out. He's doing what he's payed for, she's had had 2 votes on the exact same thing. She's useless and needs to go along with Corbyn (rumours are he's stepping down).
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:14 pm

He is suppose to be impartial but he is a remainer and on 2 separate occasions recently as turned down amendments for leave to be debated in favour of remain amendments even though one had over a hundred mps in favour of debate...! And he actually went against parliament democracy to interfere previously? The man is a joke and should be removed :old:
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:20 pm

pembroke allan wrote:He is suppose to be impartial but he is a remainer and on 2 separate occasions recently as turned down amendments for leave to be debated in favour of remain amendments even though one had over a hundred mps in favour of debate...! And he actually went against parliament democracy to interfere previously? The man is a joke and should be removed :old:



If he vould he would sabatage any attempts for leave to happen that is not impartiality. :roll:
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby NIBluebird » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:22 pm

We need to renegotiate.

Euro think they have upper hand , we need to start dictating .

He's made a great decision
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby ReesWestonSuperMare » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:22 pm

If you want a no deal Brexit - you will be happy with what Berkow did
If you want an extension to article 50 - you will be happy with what Berkow did

The only people not happy is the PM who wants her deal.

BUT - they can call a halt to parliament and re start it - and bring the deal bag as it is and Berkow cant do anything about it - according to LBC radio.

It seems though his strings are being pulled though by the majority Remainers in Westminster, to postpone it and then let it die.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby psw78 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:30 pm

NIBluebird wrote:We need to renegotiate.

Euro think they have upper hand , we need to start dictating .

He's made a great decision


The EU do have the upper hand - they’ve always had the upper hand, even from before the vote in 2016. Despite what the likes of Farage, Johnson and Davies might have claimed beforehand, we were never in a position to ‘dictate’ to them ‘our terms’. Even less so now after 3 years of not actually knowing what we want as a nation (surprise, surprise)
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby TheHangedMan » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:40 pm

As I see it he might well be right.

So the only legally binding possibility in front of parliament is we leave on 29th March, ratified by the head of Sate......that's the only thing they actually voted for and agreed on 2 years ago.

Simples.....
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:10 pm

ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:If you want a no deal Brexit - you will be happy with what Berkow did
If you want an extension to article 50 - you will be happy with what Berkow did

The only people not happy is the PM who wants her deal.

BUT - they can call a halt to parliament and re start it - and bring the deal bag as it is and Berkow cant do anything about it - according to LBC radio.

It seems though his strings are being pulled though by the majority Remainers in Westminster, to postpone it and then let it die.



He is openly a remainer so doesn't need anything pulled! Hes probably right with what he says but you can bet your bottom dollar he was grinning like Cheshire cat when he announced it. :roll:
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby ffs » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:46 pm

Funny how there's allowed to be 2+ votes on her deal however we are only allowed one on Leave or Remain
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Bridgend_bluebird » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:00 am

ffs wrote:Funny how there's allowed to be 2+ votes on her deal however we are only allowed one on Leave or Remain


Yup. And apparently the first one wasn't official, it was more of a test (can't think of word) referendum.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:44 am

ffs wrote:Funny how there's allowed to be 2+ votes on her deal however we are only allowed one on Leave or Remain



So you want anothet vote so that So you can vote remain again? Then if you win thats final referendum because people said no? : what happened to 1st vote it was just a test run? :laughing6: as for parliament voting twice thats what it does all the time just depends on what it is?
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby worcester_ccfc » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:46 am

pembroke allan wrote:
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:If you want a no deal Brexit - you will be happy with what Berkow did
If you want an extension to article 50 - you will be happy with what Berkow did

The only people not happy is the PM who wants her deal.

BUT - they can call a halt to parliament and re start it - and bring the deal bag as it is and Berkow cant do anything about it - according to LBC radio.

It seems though his strings are being pulled though by the majority Remainers in Westminster, to postpone it and then let it die.



He is openly a remainer so doesn't need anything pulled! Hes probably right with what he says but you can bet your bottom dollar he was grinning like Cheshire cat when he announced it. :roll:


He followed the rules. Whatever his opinions are were always going to be irrelevant.

I’ve seen the video of him reading out his statement to the house, and his face is neutral - not smiling like a Cheshire Cat.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:51 am

worcester_ccfc wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:If you want a no deal Brexit - you will be happy with what Berkow did
If you want an extension to article 50 - you will be happy with what Berkow did

The only people not happy is the PM who wants her deal.

BUT - they can call a halt to parliament and re start it - and bring the deal bag as it is and Berkow cant do anything about it - according to LBC radio.

It seems though his strings are being pulled though by the majority Remainers in Westminster, to postpone it and then let it die.



He is openly a remainer so doesn't need anything pulled! Hes probably right with what he says but you can bet your bottom dollar he was grinning like Cheshire cat when he announced it. :roll:


He followed the rules. Whatever his opinions are were always going to be irrelevant.

I’ve seen the video of him reading out his statement to the house, and his face is neutral - not smiling like a Cheshire Cat.


No well picture in paper as him smirking! Also he used a very little used 400yr old rule to stop vote and didn't tell anyone what he was doing... everyman and his dog knows this man wants to stop brexit, like said hes got history of putting obstacles in way of this gvnmt and is openly opposed to brexit and is using his power to this aim :thumbup:
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby dogfound » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:27 am

worcester_ccfc wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:If you want a no deal Brexit - you will be happy with what Berkow did
If you want an extension to article 50 - you will be happy with what Berkow did

The only people not happy is the PM who wants her deal.

BUT - they can call a halt to parliament and re start it - and bring the deal bag as it is and Berkow cant do anything about it - according to LBC radio.

It seems though his strings are being pulled though by the majority Remainers in Westminster, to postpone it and then let it die.



He is openly a remainer so doesn't need anything pulled! Hes probably right with what he says but you can bet your bottom dollar he was grinning like Cheshire cat when he announced it. :roll:


He followed the rules. Whatever his opinions are were always going to be irrelevant.

I’ve seen the video of him reading out his statement to the house, and his face is neutral - not smiling like a Cheshire Cat.



a 400 year old rule last used almost a 100 years ago..the whole Brexit thing is strange including this fellas contribution
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby ffs » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:39 am

pembroke allan wrote:
ffs wrote:Funny how there's allowed to be 2+ votes on her deal however we are only allowed one on Leave or Remain



So you want anothet vote so that So you can vote remain again? Then if you win thats final referendum because people said no? : what happened to 1st vote it was just a test run? :laughing6: as for parliament voting twice thats what it does all the time just depends on what it is?


The elderly and weak, easily led people had the wool pulled over their eyes by the rich elites for the first vote. Now everyone knows what they are voting for it will be a far more genuine result
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Bonner » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:45 am

It’s not him stopping it, it’s constitutional law.
Shows how out of touch kostnof the MP’s are,!they were not even aware of the law.
An embarrassment to this whole shambles .
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:10 am

ffs wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
ffs wrote:Funny how there's allowed to be 2+ votes on her deal however we are only allowed one on Leave or Remain



So you want anothet vote so that So you can vote remain again? Then if you win thats final referendum because people said no? : what happened to 1st vote it was just a test run? :laughing6: as for parliament voting twice thats what it does all the time just depends on what it is?


The elderly and weak, easily led people had the wool pulled over their eyes by the rich elites for the first vote. Now everyone knows what they are voting for it will be a far more genuine result



So 17.5m people had the wool pulled over their eyes and the other 15m or so people new what they were doing? Typical remain attitude everyone lied except them? :laughing6: at end of day ask this question who benefits from this decision ? Its The remainers/EU who are hoping brexit doesn't happen? :o
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby epping blue » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:39 am

Bonner wrote:It’s not him stopping it, it’s constitutional law.
Shows how out of touch kostnof the MP’s are,!they were not even aware of the law.
An embarrassment to this whole shambles .



Its not law, its not even rules, its precedent and his interpretation of it. On the basis that we've never been in this position before there is no precedent for this.

Not withstanding that, his interpretation is flawed. The precedent is there to prevent similar votes being asked with the certainty of the same results. The deal maybe similar but the circumstances surrounding this vote have changed enormously. Now that No Deal has effectively been ruled out this has become a binary choice. There's now 2 options support it or the barely Brexit / no Brexit option.

He's lost any claim to impatialty over this and reaaly needs to be voted out of office at the first opportunity.

We need a general election in my opinion. If Corbyn fights on his view of Brexit and he gets to form the next government then so be it. If he stands on the ticket of having a second referendum then we have it.

In 2017 4 parties stood on the basis of holding another referendum, they all saw significant reductions in their vote share. Both Labour and the Tories stood on the basis of respecting the decision and both had their highest share of the vote for years. On that basis there is no basis for a second referendum without a general election and it forming part of the campaigning for that.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby castleblue » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:56 am

pembroke allan wrote:
worcester_ccfc wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:If you want a no deal Brexit - you will be happy with what Berkow did
If you want an extension to article 50 - you will be happy with what Berkow did

The only people not happy is the PM who wants her deal.

BUT - they can call a halt to parliament and re start it - and bring the deal bag as it is and Berkow cant do anything about it - according to LBC radio.

It seems though his strings are being pulled though by the majority Remainers in Westminster, to postpone it and then let it die.



He is openly a remainer so doesn't need anything pulled! Hes probably right with what he says but you can bet your bottom dollar he was grinning like Cheshire cat when he announced it. :roll:


He followed the rules. Whatever his opinions are were always going to be irrelevant.

I’ve seen the video of him reading out his statement to the house, and his face is neutral - not smiling like a Cheshire Cat.


No well picture in paper as him smirking! Also he used a very little used 400yr old rule to stop vote and didn't tell anyone what he was doing... everyman and his dog knows this man wants to stop brexit, like said hes got history of putting obstacles in way of this gvnmt and is openly opposed to brexit and is using his power to this aim :thumbup:



In fairness to John Berkow he did tell Parliament last Wednesday when he was asked a question by Labour MP Angela Eagle regarding TM looking to bring back the "Same" deal for a 3rd meaningful vote would that be "Out Of Order" in terms of Parliamentary procedure. His reply in the commons was:

“There are historical precedents for the way such matters are regarded. I don’t need to treat of them now and no ruling is required now. There may be people who have an opinion about it, I’m not really preoccupied with that, but a ruling would be made at the appropriate time, and I’m grateful for [Ms Eagle] for reminding me that such a ruling might at some point in the future be required.”

In fairness he told Parliament last week he would make a ruling should the Government attempt to bring this "Deal" back for a "3rd Meaningful Vote" and the Government chose to ignore the warning so, in my opinion, John Berkow has done absolutely the right thing by telling the Government his ruling at this time. It's simple if you want another vote then bring something different back to the commons.

Parliament has now decided "twice" that it cannot support TM negotiated deal and "In her own words" "No Deal Is Better Than A Bad Deal" we need to move on and leave the EU on the 29th March without a deal as that's the only thing Parliament has really agreed upon and it's the LAW.

However last week Parliament passed a non binding vote against leaving the EU without a deal so as I see it sometime over the next week the Government will need to bring a vote before Parliament to revoke Article 50 or to extend Article 50 as Berkow will not allow another vote on TM BAD DEAL.

John Berkow is not the bad guy here he is just showing tremendous courage to stand up to TM.

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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby epping blue » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:58 am

ffs wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
ffs wrote:Funny how there's allowed to be 2+ votes on her deal however we are only allowed one on Leave or Remain



So you want anothet vote so that So you can vote remain again? Then if you win thats final referendum because people said no? : what happened to 1st vote it was just a test run? :laughing6: as for parliament voting twice thats what it does all the time just depends on what it is?


The elderly and weak, easily led people had the wool pulled over their eyes by the rich elites for the first vote. Now everyone knows what they are voting for it will be a far more genuine result



I was lied too. 95% of the establishment, political leaders past and present, leaders of financial institutions almost without exception stood up and told me of the financial armageddon that would immediately ensue should we vote to leave. Well despite their promises of doom, we're 3 years on and its pretty where we were.

That despite government as a whole being determined to thwart the democratic vote of the people. Where could we be now if they really had excepted the result, stopped talking down the economy and got on with it.

Lets be honest, they were finger in the air predictions to suit their individual positions and in many cases a serious abuse of their positions of influence.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Bluebina » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:19 am

pembroke allan wrote:He is suppose to be impartial but he is a remainer and on 2 separate occasions recently as turned down amendments for leave to be debated in favour of remain amendments even though one had over a hundred mps in favour of debate...! And he actually went against parliament democracy to interfere previously? The man is a joke and should be removed :old:



He's a tool and completely biased, trying to manipulate Parliament into a No Brexit, him running the house of Commons is like having Alistair Campbell referee the Burnley - Cardiff game.

I would love it is May said f u then we will crash out on 29th March, but she doesn't have the balls !!!
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby JJBluebird98 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:09 am

worcester_ccfc wrote:If the house vote on anything and it’s rejected, does the same thing unaltered go back to the house a second or third time? No.

Bercow is right here, and just following what the house has done since 1604.

Nobody wants May’s deal anyway.




I agree with you that that mays deal isn't popular. Personally I think we are better off in the EU then out (personal opinion) but all my family are hardline brexitiers and they hate the deal, in fact its the only thing that unites us all on brexit :lol: . However I believe this is the only deal we will get because this is not a deal negotiated by the Government but by the Civil Service and they priority is as little change as possible. I honestly don't believe that they will ever allow no deal to happen, whether a extension allows for a peoples vote on the governments deal vs remain if they cant vote through the governments deal next week. I would even suggest that should we not get granted a extension by the EU that the government will collapse and a interim government will revoke article 50 without a peoples vote, this is something I would find concerning but more likely then a no deal Brexit.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Northwalesblues » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:34 pm

When is a Deal not a Deal?

John Bercow’s ruling could turn out to be one of the few examples of common sense in this whole Brexit fiasco and it will highlight that our bunch of Parliamentary light weights are failing dismally to carry out the request of the 2016 “People’s" Vote; though it’s not surprising, as for many years all our Countries major policies have been handed down from Brussels!

Mrs. May, a staunch Remainer, has agreed a “Deal” with the EU, that far from being engineered by ERG Brexiteers, is one that actually tries to appease the huge number of Parliamentary “Remainers”, though because the Labour leader makes a “headless chicken” appear focused, they’ve failed to realise it! Today what we are faced with is not a deal but an arrangement, essentially decided, written and handed to Mrs. May by the EU, akin to a “punishment” for having the audacity to leave their “club” and Mrs. May as the autocratic “headmistress” has made it her mission to “stuff it down our throats” to make us pay for making a wrong and stupid decision to leave. Whatever your opinion of her 599 page deal, if agreed, it will place us in a considerably worse position than remaining, ergo this is not a deal but an arrangement and a bad one at that!

However, consider this, leaving on the 29th, without an “arrangement” is actually the “deal” we voted for, why call it “crashing out" everything we currently do is aligned with the EU, so on March 30th if it isn’t broken don’t fix it, if or when things need sorting then we have 10’s of thousands of very highly paid individuals, in both the Private and Public sector, who can get off their cosseted backsides and earn their corn for a change and deal with it, after all 599 pages is smaller than a software licence agreement!

No-one can predict the future, apart from, apparently, Cabinet Ministers and Government Experts and lets be straight on this, we have been bombarded with their “shock and awe” predictions that endlessly "crash and burn”. In actuality only 5% of our companies deal with Europe whilst we take 20% of all EU exports, am I alone in believing that all these people who the media constantly quote espousing doom are the privileged and grotesquely highly paid pen pushers from EU based or owned corporations that are doing very nicely from their UK workforce.

If Mrs. May’s deal does get through, a deal that focuses predominately on rules that we need to adhere to, reparations we need to make and the huge amount of money we need to pay, slowly but surely both sides will realises that we have shamefully capitulated, that in time will cause increasing anger and resentment. A successful future relationship needs both parties to work for it, all we've heard to date, is that which we need to do. So let’s leave and see how our Neighbours react, hopefully better than the way the French are dealing with travel currently! When we leave Ireland will become a foreign country, perhaps in time they’ll follow our lead; the Eu has to realise we have a complex connection, we won’t build a physical barrier, neither will the Irish or the Eu. The Eu need to trust that we can make this work.

Apart from Mrs. May and a few sycophant followers, all our MP’s believe her deal is rubbish, but by being resolute in not deviating from her cynical end game she has herded them into the “agree” pen, shame on them! The “buffer’s” are coming and these inept duplicate Politicians cannot get off the train, to quote a film; “they’ve been measured, they’ve been weighed and they’ve been found wanting. Change is a-coming.

If we don’t get Brexit now, we’ll get EU elections in May and we’ll get a General Election, we then get the opportunity to choose higher quality representatives, whom we deserve, to uphold the will of the people.
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:35 pm

Bluebina wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:He is suppose to be impartial but he is a remainer and on 2 separate occasions recently as turned down amendments for leave to be debated in favour of remain amendments even though one had over a hundred mps in favour of debate...! And he actually went against parliament democracy to interfere previously? The man is a joke and should be removed :old:



He's a tool and completely biased, trying to manipulate Parliament into a No Brexit, him running the house of Commons is like having Alistair Campbell referee the Burnley - Cardiff game.

I would love it is May said f u then we will crash out on 29th March, but she doesn't have the balls !!!



No deal will put the willies up the EU thats for sure! As a matter of interest this rule was last used in 1920!! My beef with this crap is the people voted leave its then upto MPS to get it done its not up to sef opinionated mps to block or deny the democratic will off the people as they are obviously doing now!
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Re: John Berkow stopping the Brexit vote.

Postby Steve Zodiak » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:47 pm

epping blue wrote:
ffs wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
ffs wrote:Funny how there's allowed to be 2+ votes on her deal however we are only allowed one on Leave or Remain



So you want anothet vote so that So you can vote remain again? Then if you win thats final referendum because people said no? : what happened to 1st vote it was just a test run? :laughing6: as for parliament voting twice thats what it does all the time just depends on what it is?


The elderly and weak, easily led people had the wool pulled over their eyes by the rich elites for the first vote. Now everyone knows what they are voting for it will be a far more genuine result



I was lied too. 95% of the establishment, political leaders past and present, leaders of financial institutions almost without exception stood up and told me of the financial armageddon that would immediately ensue should we vote to leave. Well despite their promises of doom, we're 3 years on and its pretty where we were.

That despite government as a whole being determined to thwart the democratic vote of the people. Where could we be now if they really had excepted the result, stopped talking down the economy and got on with it.

Lets be honest, they were finger in the air predictions to suit their individual positions and in many cases a serious abuse of their positions of influence.


They also forecast soaring unemployment and our FTSE crashing. A bit out with that prediction, particularly with today's news of the number of people now in employment and the lowest unemployment figures since just before we joined the Common Market. A coincidence I'm sure, but if things were the other way around, the remainers would most certainly blame Brexit. Odd that the remainers never mention employment figures or the recent highs of our stock market, wages rising quicker than inflation etc., and they all appear to have forgotten Osborne's emergency budget which never happened despite being needed to prevent our economy from collapsing. Difficult to work out which side told the biggest pack of lies, not much between them I suspect.
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