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NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:20 am

Emiliano Sala transfer cash row rumbles on after fresh Cardiff registration revelation
By Matt Maltby

Cardiff did not meet two specific provisions relating to the transfer when they filed the paperwork for his £15million move.



Saturday 16th March 2019


The Bluebirds are refusing to pay Nantes while investigations into the tragic striker’s transfer continue

The dispute over Emiliano Sala’s transfer to Cardiff has taken another twist after it emerged that his move had not been given the green light by the Premier League.


The Bluebirds are refusing to pay Nantes while investigations into the tragic striker’s transfer continue, while FIFA are also looking into the move.

And the Premier League club have now found out that they did not fully comply with Premier League regulations.


The Sun claim that Cardiff did not meet two specific provisions relating to the transfer when they filed the paperwork for his £15million move.

This is despite Cardiff announcing the signing and the Premier League posting the move on their website.

The report goes on to claim that Sala would have been unavailable to play for Cardiff until the issues were resolved.


The Argentine died when the plane carrying him from Nantes to Cardiff crashed in the English Channel, shortly after signing for the club.

His body was later recovered from the wreckage, while pilot David Ibbotson remains missing.


FIFA are now investigating Sala’s transfer from Nantes to Cardiff City following a claim from the French club.


Cardiff City chairman Mehmet Dalman has said the club will pay the £15m transfer fee to Nantes for Sala “if contractually obliged”.

The clubs had become involved in a dispute over when the first instalment of the fee should be paid although Cardiff City manager Neil Warnock said last month he believed that Nantes had agreed to an extension.
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Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:42 am

For me, if this is true, it will depend from where the 'issue' arose...

Was it City's error? Was it FC Nantes error? The FAW? The FA? Or UEFA itself? :?

Clearly, we don't know 100% yet but the report above states (quote) "Cardiff did not meet two specific provisions relating to the transfer when they filed the paperwork"

This seems to suggest the error might have laid at the Cardiff City end and IF (and I mean IF at this point) the 'issue' was an error on Cardiff's part rather than elsewhere in the process, then Mehmet Dalman's claim that City would pay FC Nantes (quote) "if contractually obliged" would surely also take on the adage 'if morally obliged'?

However, if the 'fault' lies elsewhere, then it will strengthen City's hand and justify their decision to 'hold back' payments to FC Nantes

It has been suggested for some time that the club's hierarchy are actively seeking (notwithstanding certain obligations to Emiliano Sala's family and estate) to avoid payment for the player, if it can be proved he was not 'officially' or 'contractually' the club's player and the apparent premature announcement of his signing would have no credibility in Law

I understand why the clubs (City holding back and FC Nantes putting in a claim) have done what they've done to date but this, I believe, is going to get even messier before it is sorted and (as someone told me in a recent conversation) the club (City) are not going to come out of this too favourably regardless of how it ends :(

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:52 am

Whatever the issues with not complying to Premier League regulations. They would have been minor and sorted out within a day or two with amended paperwork.

We MUST pay the fee.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:36 am

All the good will that was shown towards us is in danger of evaporating if we continue to pursue this line. Regardless of whether the paperwork was complete or not, we announced him as our player and Warnock confirmed this by saying Sala was his player. I really think that we need to draw a line under this and pay at least the first installment:-

a] because it seems like the right thing to do

b] to ensure that it doesn't affect things on the field during these vital games in the run in.

If it is found that we acted above board during this whole sorry saga then we will be vindicated by FIFA/UEFA and the good name of the club that has been developed in recent years will remain intact regardless of what others might suggest.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:24 am

Well I'm glad some have £5 - £15 m to give away ! Any chance of chipping in for a striker next season.

Can you honestly say that Nantes or anyone for that matter would fork out before investigation was completed.

I will say again CARDIFF HAVE NEVER REFUSED TO PAY. :ayatollah:

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:39 am

Personally, I think the club is doing everything in the correct way by waiting for the official outcome.
If he wasn’t officially our player and that is sanctioned by the FA or whoever then we shouldn’t pay. Obviously, if vice verse then we should pay

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:51 am

JulesK wrote:Well I'm glad some have £5 - £15 m to give away ! Any chance of chipping in for a striker next season.

Can you honestly say that Nantes or anyone for that matter would fork out before investigation was completed.

I will say again CARDIFF HAVE NEVER REFUSED TO PAY. :ayatollah:



Cardiff have refused to pay until they are satisfied there are no more loopholes they can persue..
you ,i or uncle tom cobly would not be at all happy if you had sold something to someone who then did this...
as for the new twist...its hardly news.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:52 am

There is nothing new written there, we’ve heard it all before. With regards to paying, why would we hand over 15m if he isn’t our player? Our insurance on him certainly wouldn’t pay if he isn’t officially ours.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:57 am

KBK-13 wrote:There is nothing new written there, we’ve heard it all before. With regards to paying, why would we hand over 15m if he isn’t our player? Our insurance on him certainly wouldn’t pay if he isn’t officially ours.


In a nutshell... spot on.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:12 am

So if you buy a car from a garage and ask them to deliver it after all paperwork is nearly completed, and they write it off on the way to delivering it, you are going to say never mind, here is the money anyway as you are jolly nice people. I don't think anyone would part with the cash until it was proved that they are contractually obliged to pay out, even if they were telling everyone that they have bought a nice shiny new car. Personally, I have a feeling that Cardiff will probably have to pay, but I would not expect them to fork out the cash if the legalities were not completed, and if he was not officially a City player. Can't blame them for exercising caution, and I am sure every other club would be checking things out in exactly the same way.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:12 am

Sven wrote:For me, if this is true, it will depend from where the 'issue' arose...

Was it City's error? Was it FC Nantes error? The FAW? The FA? Or UEFA itself? :?

Clearly, we don't know 100% yet but the report above states (quote) "Cardiff did not meet two specific provisions relating to the transfer when they filed the paperwork"

This seems to suggest the error might have laid at the Cardiff City end and IF (and I mean IF at this point) the 'issue' was an error on Cardiff's part rather than elsewhere in the process, then Mehmet Dalman's claim that City would pay FC Nantes (quote) "if contractually obliged" would surely also take on the adage 'if morally obliged'?

However, if the 'fault' lies elsewhere, then it will strengthen City's hand and justify their decision to 'hold back' payments to FC Nantes

It has been suggested for some time that the club's hierarchy are actively seeking (notwithstanding certain obligations to Emiliano Sala's family and estate) to avoid payment for the player, if it can be proved he was not 'officially' or 'contractually' the club's player and the apparent premature announcement of his signing would have no credibility in Law

I understand why the clubs (City holding back and FC Nantes putting in a claim) have done what they've done to date but this, I believe, is going to get even messier before it is sorted and (as someone told me in a recent conversation) the club (City) are not going to come out of this too favourably regardless of how it ends :(


Whatever the reason why this transfer was not completed, and I still believe it surrounds the ITC not being issued, before the tragic death of Emiliano Sala it is going to become increasingly difficult for the club to maintain this "Not Contractually Obliged" to make payment for the player because you only have to ask one question. Why was Emiliano Sala on that plane?

The answer is simple it was because Cardiff City and Nantes FC had agreed a fee for the transfer of the player and the player himself had agreed terms with Cardiff City. Therein lies the "Moral Obligation" and I believe eventually both clubs will come to an agreement about who pays what and if they cannot reach agreement then either FIFA or the CAS will make the decision.

Having said that I still believe that Cardiff City are not the bad guys in all this because it is clear that the club had attempted to arrange a commercial flight for the player but "He" decided to go with the flight offered by the agent acting on behalf of Nantes FC.We now know that whilst the plane used was capable of making the flight the pilot was not trained to make the flight and did not have the licence required either. Is that Cardiff City fault?

This is why Cardiff City are absolutely right to say let's wait until we get the FULL report into this accident before making any decision on making any payments.


:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:15 am

dogfound wrote:
JulesK wrote:Well I'm glad some have £5 - £15 m to give away ! Any chance of chipping in for a striker next season.

Can you honestly say that Nantes or anyone for that matter would fork out before investigation was completed.

I will say again CARDIFF HAVE NEVER REFUSED TO PAY. :ayatollah:



Cardiff have refused to pay until they are satisfied there are no more loopholes they can persue..
you ,i or uncle tom cobly would not be at all happy if you had sold something to someone who then did this...
as for the new twist...its hardly news.



I wouldn't be happy if you told my uncle Tom Cobly he owes you £15m on what well may be worthless bit of paper and my uncle Tom Cobly certainly wouldn't be demanding monies when bodies are at the bottom of the channel.

Opinions eh?

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:34 am

Are we seriously trying to get out of paying the money we owe, yet we made the mistakes and told the world Sala was our player :shock: :shock: :? :? :evil:

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:16 am

grange_end1927 wrote:Are we seriously trying to get out of paying the money we owe, yet we made the mistakes and told the world Sala was our player :shock: :shock: :? :? :evil:




More like we are not going to pay for something we were not legally required to do so because contract was not legal? You wouldnt do so would you? At end day if we are liable we will pay if not we won't, as for saying was our player believe that was done before the contract issue came about in hindsight should waited until all the dots and ts was crossed before announcing him as ours but cannot change that now....

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:34 am

castleblue wrote:
Whatever the reason why this transfer was not completed, and I still believe it surrounds the ITC not being issued, before the tragic death of Emiliano Sala it is going to become increasingly difficult for the club to maintain this "Not Contractually Obliged" to make payment for the player because you only have to ask one question. Why was Emiliano Sala on that plane?

The answer is simple it was because Cardiff City and Nantes FC had agreed a fee for the transfer of the player and the player himself had agreed terms with Cardiff City. Therein lies the "Moral Obligation" and I believe eventually both clubs will come to an agreement about who pays what and if they cannot reach agreement then either FIFA or the CAS will make the decision.

Having said that I still believe that Cardiff City are not the bad guys in all this because it is clear that the club had attempted to arrange a commercial flight for the player but "He" decided to go with the flight offered by the agent acting on behalf of Nantes FC.We now know that whilst the plane used was capable of making the flight the pilot was not trained to make the flight and did not have the licence required either. Is that Cardiff City fault?

This is why Cardiff City are absolutely right to say let's wait until we get the FULL report into this accident before making any decision on making any payments.


:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:


TBH we all know why ES was on the plane but I don't think that is materially important. This comes down to contract law which has six basic elements which form a legally binding contract.

(1) offer (2) acceptance (3) consideration (4) mutuality of obligation (5) competency and capacity and in certain circumstances (6) a written instrument.

Almost certainly (1), (2) and (5) were in place.

It is consideration, mutuality of obligation and possibly a written instrument which is where the contract may not be legally binding.

Consideration is something of value and is exchanged for the performance or a promise of performance by the other party. In this case it was ES (a player) exchanged for £15m so the something of value (ES) must be delivered in tact and able to perform as was promised under the terms of the contract. Unfortunately he wasn't because he died in transit.

Mutuality of Obligation means both parties are bound to perform their obligations or the law will treat the agreement as if neither party is bound to perform. This is similar to consideration and means unless Nantes transferred ES to CCFC in tact and he was able to perform as under the terms of the contract then CCFC is not bound to pay Nantes £15m.

The written instrument in this case revolves around whether the contract was completed. To complete the contract we needed to register the player. It is technical but we all know if we buy a house, car or land we need to transfer the registration before we become the legal owners.

Until a contract is finalised both parties have the right to withdraw. In theory even though ES was flying to Cardiff the club could have still pulled out of the deal because the paperwork sent to the PL was not properly completed and therefore no contract existed. Almost certainly this will affect whether our insurers will pay out and TBH they seem to have good reason not to as technically their was no legally binding contract between CCFC and Nantes at the time of ES death.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:40 am

grange_end1927 wrote:Are we seriously trying to get out of paying the money we owe, yet we made the mistakes and told the world Sala was our player :shock: :shock: :? :? :evil:


There are several ways of looking at this. Nantes had a legal obligation to deliver the goods intact before we had an obligation to pay £15m. It is arguable that Nantes should have taken out specific insurance on ES during the transit period to guard against injury or tragic death.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:49 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
grange_end1927 wrote:Are we seriously trying to get out of paying the money we owe, yet we made the mistakes and told the world Sala was our player :shock: :shock: :? :? :evil:


There are several ways of looking at this. Nantes had a legal obligation to deliver the goods intact before we had an obligation to pay £15m. It is arguable that Nantes should have taken out specific insurance on ES during the transit period to guard against injury or tragic death.



I remember Ken Choo saying on TV when Emiliano first went missing that it was not in Cardiff Citys jurisdiction to sort out the method of him getting here and imo it was FC Nantes duty.

A totally and avoidable tragedy :bluebird:

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:13 pm

[quote="Sven"]Emiliano Sala transfer cash row rumbles on after fresh Cardiff registration revelation
By Matt Maltby

CARDIFF DID NOT MEET two specific provisions relating to the transfer when they filed the paperwork for his £15million move. :o

Bad practice by a Professional club when filing the paperwork.
If this shite drags on what clubs would want to deal with us come the summer transfer window??.


Saturday 16th March 2019



The dispute over Emiliano Sala’s transfer to Cardiff has taken another twist after it emerged that his move had not been given the green light by the Premier League.



And the Premier League club have now found out that THEY DID NOT FULLY COMPLY with Premier League regulations.] :oops:

No mention of Nantes did not fully comply with things their end.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:31 pm

Explains why he wasn’t a Cardiff player on FIFA then.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:42 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
castleblue wrote:
Whatever the reason why this transfer was not completed, and I still believe it surrounds the ITC not being issued, before the tragic death of Emiliano Sala it is going to become increasingly difficult for the club to maintain this "Not Contractually Obliged" to make payment for the player because you only have to ask one question. Why was Emiliano Sala on that plane?

The answer is simple it was because Cardiff City and Nantes FC had agreed a fee for the transfer of the player and the player himself had agreed terms with Cardiff City. Therein lies the "Moral Obligation" and I believe eventually both clubs will come to an agreement about who pays what and if they cannot reach agreement then either FIFA or the CAS will make the decision.

Having said that I still believe that Cardiff City are not the bad guys in all this because it is clear that the club had attempted to arrange a commercial flight for the player but "He" decided to go with the flight offered by the agent acting on behalf of Nantes FC.We now know that whilst the plane used was capable of making the flight the pilot was not trained to make the flight and did not have the licence required either. Is that Cardiff City fault?

This is why Cardiff City are absolutely right to say let's wait until we get the FULL report into this accident before making any decision on making any payments.


:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:


TBH we all know why ES was on the plane but I don't think that is materially important. This comes down to contract law which has six basic elements which form a legally binding contract.

(1) offer (2) acceptance (3) consideration (4) mutuality of obligation (5) competency and capacity and in certain circumstances (6) a written instrument.

Almost certainly (1), (2) and (5) were in place.

It is consideration, mutuality of obligation and possibly a written instrument which is where the contract may not be legally binding.

Consideration is something of value and is exchanged for the performance or a promise of performance by the other party. In this case it was ES (a player) exchanged for £15m so the something of value (ES) must be delivered in tact and able to perform as was promised under the terms of the contract. Unfortunately he wasn't because he died in transit.

Mutuality of Obligation means both parties are bound to perform their obligations or the law will treat the agreement as if neither party is bound to perform. This is similar to consideration and means unless Nantes transferred ES to CCFC in tact and he was able to perform as under the terms of the contract then CCFC is not bound to pay Nantes £15m.

The written instrument in this case revolves around whether the contract was completed. To complete the contract we needed to register the player. It is technical but we all know if we buy a house, car or land we need to transfer the registration before we become the legal owners.

Until a contract is finalised both parties have the right to withdraw. In theory even though ES was flying to Cardiff the club could have still pulled out of the deal because the paperwork sent to the PL was not properly completed and therefore no contract existed. Almost certainly this will affect whether our insurers will pay out and TBH they seem to have good reason not to as technically their was no legally binding contract between CCFC and Nantes at the time of ES death.


Good read that Tony and is a super explanation of why Cardiff City shouldn't pay a penny to Nantes because I believe that an ITC had not been issued and receipt confirmed by the FA, until that had happened the transfer could not be completed. Cardiff City mat have announced the signing of ES but the official statement did carry the caveat "Subject To International Clearance"

I have been lucky enough to see transfer documentation and where it involves a player moving between different National Associations the contract ALWAYS contains a clause "Subject to receipt of an International Transfer Certificate". In fact, unless we sign a player attached to a Welsh club (Except Swansea & Newport) ALL transfers our club is involved with require an ITC.

My gut instinct here is that our club may very well agree some sort of payment here, but not the full £15m, and I think they may very well offer such payment to the estate of ES and not Nantes FC.


:bluescarf: :bluescarf:

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:45 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:So if you buy a car from a garage and ask them to deliver it after all paperwork is nearly completed, and they write it off on the way to delivering it, you are going to say never mind, here is the money anyway as you are jolly nice people. I don't think anyone would part with the cash until it was proved that they are contractually obliged to pay out, even if they were telling everyone that they have bought a nice shiny new car. Personally, I have a feeling that Cardiff will probably have to pay, but I would not expect them to fork out the cash if the legalities were not completed, and if he was not officially a City player. Can't blame them for exercising caution, and I am sure every other club would be checking things out in exactly the same way.




really...you buy the car it GETS DELIVERED..


he arrived here and passed a medical ....this lost in transit or written off belongs in another story.
ye id pay..youd pay..and so would most on this board..how about some honesty..

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:40 pm

dogfound wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:So if you buy a car from a garage and ask them to deliver it after all paperwork is nearly completed, and they write it off on the way to delivering it, you are going to say never mind, here is the money anyway as you are jolly nice people. I don't think anyone would part with the cash until it was proved that they are contractually obliged to pay out, even if they were telling everyone that they have bought a nice shiny new car. Personally, I have a feeling that Cardiff will probably have to pay, but I would not expect them to fork out the cash if the legalities were not completed, and if he was not officially a City player. Can't blame them for exercising caution, and I am sure every other club would be checking things out in exactly the same way.




really...you buy the car it GETS DELIVERED..


he arrived here and passed a medical ....this lost in transit or written off belongs in another story.
ye id pay..youd pay..and so would most on this board..how about some honesty..

and so would our club have paid if we had sufficient insurance cover.


Simple answer to that is if we are liable, we will pay. If we are not, the club is not £15m out of pocket for nothing. I know contract law is a complicated subject (at least it was for me), and what seems logical and fair is irrelevant when it comes to what is actually the legalities of a particular situation. I am sure once the authorities have passed judgement, Cardiff will do whatever they are instructed to do.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:09 pm

Sven wrote:For me, if this is true, it will depend from where the 'issue' arose...

Was it City's error? Was it FC Nantes error? The FAW? The FA? Or UEFA itself? :?

Clearly, we don't know 100% yet but the report above states (quote) "Cardiff did not meet two specific provisions relating to the transfer when they filed the paperwork"

This seems to suggest the error might have laid at the Cardiff City end and IF (and I mean IF at this point) the 'issue' was an error on Cardiff's part rather than elsewhere in the process, then Mehmet Dalman's claim that City would pay FC Nantes (quote) "if contractually obliged" would surely also take on the adage 'if morally obliged'?

However, if the 'fault' lies elsewhere, then it will strengthen City's hand and justify their decision to 'hold back' payments to FC Nantes

It has been suggested for some time that the club's hierarchy are actively seeking (notwithstanding certain obligations to Emiliano Sala's family and estate) to avoid payment for the player, if it can be proved he was not 'officially' or 'contractually' the club's player and the apparent premature announcement of his signing would have no credibility in Law

I understand why the clubs (City holding back and FC Nantes putting in a claim) have done what they've done to date but this, I believe, is going to get even messier before it is sorted and (as someone told me in a recent conversation) the club (City) are not going to come out of this too favourably regardless of how it ends :(


What do you know Gestapo Sven? more presumptions?

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:19 pm

Sven wrote:For me, if this is true, it will depend from where the 'issue' arose...

Was it City's error? Was it FC Nantes error? The FAW? The FA? Or UEFA itself? :?

Clearly, we don't know 100% yet but the report above states (quote) "Cardiff did not meet two specific provisions relating to the transfer when they filed the paperwork"

This seems to suggest the error might have laid at the Cardiff City end and IF (and I mean IF at this point) the 'issue' was an error on Cardiff's part rather than elsewhere in the process, then Mehmet Dalman's claim that City would pay FC Nantes (quote) "if contractually obliged" would surely also take on the adage 'if morally obliged'?

However, if the 'fault' lies elsewhere, then it will strengthen City's hand and justify their decision to 'hold back' payments to FC Nantes

It has been suggested for some time that the club's hierarchy are actively seeking (notwithstanding certain obligations to Emiliano Sala's family and estate) to avoid payment for the player, if it can be proved he was not 'officially' or 'contractually' the club's player and the apparent premature announcement of his signing would have no credibility in Law

I understand why the clubs (City holding back and FC Nantes putting in a claim) have done what they've done to date but this, I believe, is going to get even messier before it is sorted and (as someone told me in a recent conversation) the club (City) are not going to come out of this too favourably regardless of how it ends :(


In view of your thoughts Gestapo Sven have you considered these.

1. He was registered correctly with the FAW although not the premier league, does this not mean he was a Cardiff player but not eligible to play in the English Premier League until correct registration?

2. How can it be anyone elses fault as it has to be the buying club Cardiff to register him in the league they wish to play him?

3. Don't you find it quite shocking the administration of Cardiff City couldn't even register a player correctly?

4.You mean when Annis bumped into Choo in the Indian restaurant and said he was concerned.

5. It won't get messy, simply be decided by a panel who decide who owned the player at the time of his sad death.? Where is the mess in that?

6. Could the mess be that if its decided he's a Cardiff player at the time of his death Cardiff City don't have enough insurance cover to cover the loss as again the admin side messed up and didn't cover it off?

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:23 pm

Wayne S wrote:Whatever the issues with not complying to Premier League regulations. They would have been minor and sorted out within a day or two with amended paperwork.

We MUST pay the fee.


I'm sure that will be the case. He apparently was registered as he had to be with the FAW which meant he was a Cardiff player. The premiership registration i for him to play in the EPL?

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:30 pm

Charlie Harper wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
grange_end1927 wrote:Are we seriously trying to get out of paying the money we owe, yet we made the mistakes and told the world Sala was our player :shock: :shock: :? :? :evil:


There are several ways of looking at this. Nantes had a legal obligation to deliver the goods intact before we had an obligation to pay £15m. It is arguable that Nantes should have taken out specific insurance on ES during the transit period to guard against injury or tragic death.



I remember Ken Choo saying on TV when Emiliano first went missing that it was not in Cardiff Citys jurisdiction to sort out the method of him getting here and imo it was FC Nantes duty.

A totally and avoidable tragedy :bluebird:


How does that work then?

He had already been to Cardiff and signed. So it would never be Nantes duty, and at the same time it would not have been Cardiff duty either, the player was having the weekend off and was to report to work on Tuesday so it was the players duty no one elses.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:41 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:So if you buy a car from a garage and ask them to deliver it after all paperwork is nearly completed, and they write it off on the way to delivering it, you are going to say never mind, here is the money anyway as you are jolly nice people. I don't think anyone would part with the cash until it was proved that they are contractually obliged to pay out, even if they were telling everyone that they have bought a nice shiny new car. Personally, I have a feeling that Cardiff will probably have to pay, but I would not expect them to fork out the cash if the legalities were not completed, and if he was not officially a City player. Can't blame them for exercising caution, and I am sure every other club would be checking things out in exactly the same way.


In the situation you quote, in that instance if the garage were delivering it they would claim on their insurance and supply another car. The garage would no doubt have the correct insurance in place unlike Cardiff City who didn't and hence seek loopholes not to have to pay.

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:46 pm

KBK-13 wrote:There is nothing new written there, we’ve heard it all before. With regards to paying, why would we hand over 15m if he isn’t our player? Our insurance on him certainly wouldn’t pay if he isn’t officially ours.


I would reverse that question and ask if Cardiff City knew he wasn't their player, why would they allow their fans to believe he was, allow them to make and fly the flags they did and the memorials as well as allow the manager to say he was my player?

Your insurance won't cover either way anyway because just like the registration to the premier league admin wasn't reportedly correct neither was the insurance apparently with not enough cover. :roll:

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:58 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
castleblue wrote:
Whatever the reason why this transfer was not completed, and I still believe it surrounds the ITC not being issued, before the tragic death of Emiliano Sala it is going to become increasingly difficult for the club to maintain this "Not Contractually Obliged" to make payment for the player because you only have to ask one question. Why was Emiliano Sala on that plane?

The answer is simple it was because Cardiff City and Nantes FC had agreed a fee for the transfer of the player and the player himself had agreed terms with Cardiff City. Therein lies the "Moral Obligation" and I believe eventually both clubs will come to an agreement about who pays what and if they cannot reach agreement then either FIFA or the CAS will make the decision.

Having said that I still believe that Cardiff City are not the bad guys in all this because it is clear that the club had attempted to arrange a commercial flight for the player but "He" decided to go with the flight offered by the agent acting on behalf of Nantes FC.We now know that whilst the plane used was capable of making the flight the pilot was not trained to make the flight and did not have the licence required either. Is that Cardiff City fault?





This is why Cardiff City are absolutely right to say let's wait until we get the FULL report into this accident before making any decision on making any payments.


:bluescarf: :bluescarf: :bluescarf:


TBH we all know why ES was on the plane but I don't think that is materially important. This comes down to contract law which has six basic elements which form a legally binding contract.

(1) offer (2) acceptance (3) consideration (4) mutuality of obligation (5) competency and capacity and in certain circumstances (6) a written instrument.

Almost certainly (1), (2) and (5) were in place.

It is consideration, mutuality of obligation and possibly a written instrument which is where the contract may not be legally binding.

Consideration is something of value and is exchanged for the performance or a promise of performance by the other party. In this case it was ES (a player) exchanged for £15m so the something of value (ES) must be delivered in tact and able to perform as was promised under the terms of the contract. Unfortunately he wasn't because he died in transit.

Mutuality of Obligation means both parties are bound to perform their obligations or the law will treat the agreement as if neither party is bound to perform. This is similar to consideration and means unless Nantes transferred ES to CCFC in tact and he was able to perform as under the terms of the contract then CCFC is not bound to pay Nantes £15m.

The written instrument in this case revolves around whether the contract was completed. To complete the contract we needed to register the player. It is technical but we all know if we buy a house, car or land we need to transfer the registration before we become the legal owners.

Until a contract is finalised both parties have the right to withdraw. In theory even though ES was flying to Cardiff the club could have still pulled out of the deal because the paperwork sent to the PL was not properly completed and therefore no contract existed. Almost certainly this will affect whether our insurers will pay out and TBH they seem to have good reason not to as technically their was no legally binding contract between CCFC and Nantes at the time of ES death.


Couple of points here Tony

You Say "the club could have still pulled out of the deal because the paperwork sent to the PL was not properly completed and therefore no contract existed."

Is it not the case the contract between the clubs was completed and signed?

Is it not the case he was registered as a Cardiff player with the FAW which means he was now owned by Cardiff City ?

Is it not the case the registration with the premier league is to allow the player to play in the premier league?

You say " Almost certainly this will affect whether our insurers will pay out"

Is it also not the case that your insurers will not pay out as there was inadequate cover on your new asset which wouldn't cover the loss fully ?

Re: NEW REVELATION AS EMILIANO SALA TRANSFER SAGA RUMBLES ON

Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:29 am

And I thought the virus had gone :?: you know nothing more than most common folk,stop pretending you do,to get you're attention fix,you so obviously crave :banghead: let me say something I know for definite, the inventors of a certain sport,blew a 31 point advantage today :oops: and the littlest nation (you know who we are :laughing6: )recorded a grand slam(again) :occasion5: :old: :bluebird: