Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:39 am
Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Help us avoid Emiliano Sala payment: Cardiff seek Premier League clubs' advice on escaping £15m transfer fee
Daily Mail
16/02/19
Cardiff City have contacted other Premier League clubs in an attempt to establish whether there may be grounds to avoid paying the full £15million transfer fee being demanded by Nantes for Emiliano Sala, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Letters sent in the past few days by lawyers acting for the club request help in ‘fighting off Nantes’ legal claim’, according to one source. They ask clubs for assistance in ‘sharing your knowledge of Sala as a player’.
The correspondence from a Cardiff law firm describes Sala as ‘the player that Cardiff tried to sign’, phrasing which makes it clear that the club believe they may not have to pay all — or indeed any — of the record transfer fee.
Details of the letters — which Cardiff on Saturday confirmed were sent — emerged as manager Neil Warnock and chief executive Ken Choo arrived in Argentina for the player’s wake and funeral.
The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Cardiff’s decision to approach Premier League clubs publicly linked with Sala is partly motivated by transfer broker Willie McKay’s admission in an email to the striker that he had sought to artificially inflate the price. McKay told Sala he had told the media of rival interest ‘just to stimulate interest in you’.
The club are seeking to establish whether there was indeed any interest at all from other clubs. McKay’s email to Sala listed Everton and West Ham as clubs he had linked the player to, though Crystal Palace, Fulham, Burnley and Wolves were also reported to be keen.
Seems they are going to go after the agents
But,
My big worry is Wez, in my opinion the agents are totally corrupt and know how to go under at the right time.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:42 am
wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Help us avoid Emiliano Sala payment: Cardiff seek Premier League clubs' advice on escaping £15m transfer fee
Daily Mail
16/02/19
Cardiff City have contacted other Premier League clubs in an attempt to establish whether there may be grounds to avoid paying the full £15million transfer fee being demanded by Nantes for Emiliano Sala, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Letters sent in the past few days by lawyers acting for the club request help in ‘fighting off Nantes’ legal claim’, according to one source. They ask clubs for assistance in ‘sharing your knowledge of Sala as a player’.
The correspondence from a Cardiff law firm describes Sala as ‘the player that Cardiff tried to sign’, phrasing which makes it clear that the club believe they may not have to pay all — or indeed any — of the record transfer fee.
Details of the letters — which Cardiff on Saturday confirmed were sent — emerged as manager Neil Warnock and chief executive Ken Choo arrived in Argentina for the player’s wake and funeral.
The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Cardiff’s decision to approach Premier League clubs publicly linked with Sala is partly motivated by transfer broker Willie McKay’s admission in an email to the striker that he had sought to artificially inflate the price. McKay told Sala he had told the media of rival interest ‘just to stimulate interest in you’.
The club are seeking to establish whether there was indeed any interest at all from other clubs. McKay’s email to Sala listed Everton and West Ham as clubs he had linked the player to, though Crystal Palace, Fulham, Burnley and Wolves were also reported to be keen.
Seems they are going to go after the agents
But,
My big worry is Wez, in my opinion the agents are totally corrupt and know how to go under at the right time.
It still doesn't matter if they go under they will have insurance ,I put a company through , 3 years later I got a claim for injury off a customer ,I passed it on to my insurance company at the time and they paid out to the claimant ,all this at the moment is trying to pass liability once liability gets established then insurance will have to pay out
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:52 am
Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:Cardiff will most likely will be forced to pay the transfer money on the agreed terms.
What Cardiff need to do is invetigate who organised the flight and what precautions they took. If what is being said it was a gas engineer who was the pilot then Cardiff will have a case against the organisers. If the organisers are connected to Nantes then yes I can see the transfer being nullified. This could take time, Cardiff will pay a couple of installments then the subject will come ot a close.
Ian, the problem is suing the agents, I have heard the main one is virtually bankrupt on paper.
The three instalments are £5mill every year for three years, plus £3mill if we stay up this season. £5mill was was frozen over 3weeks ago by City.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:53 am
Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Help us avoid Emiliano Sala payment: Cardiff seek Premier League clubs' advice on escaping £15m transfer fee
Daily Mail
16/02/19
Cardiff City have contacted other Premier League clubs in an attempt to establish whether there may be grounds to avoid paying the full £15million transfer fee being demanded by Nantes for Emiliano Sala, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Letters sent in the past few days by lawyers acting for the club request help in ‘fighting off Nantes’ legal claim’, according to one source. They ask clubs for assistance in ‘sharing your knowledge of Sala as a player’.
The correspondence from a Cardiff law firm describes Sala as ‘the player that Cardiff tried to sign’, phrasing which makes it clear that the club believe they may not have to pay all — or indeed any — of the record transfer fee.
Details of the letters — which Cardiff on Saturday confirmed were sent — emerged as manager Neil Warnock and chief executive Ken Choo arrived in Argentina for the player’s wake and funeral.
The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Cardiff’s decision to approach Premier League clubs publicly linked with Sala is partly motivated by transfer broker Willie McKay’s admission in an email to the striker that he had sought to artificially inflate the price. McKay told Sala he had told the media of rival interest ‘just to stimulate interest in you’.
The club are seeking to establish whether there was indeed any interest at all from other clubs. McKay’s email to Sala listed Everton and West Ham as clubs he had linked the player to, though Crystal Palace, Fulham, Burnley and Wolves were also reported to be keen.
Seems they are going to go after the agents
But,
My big worry is Wez, in my opinion the agents are totally corrupt and know how to go under at the right time.
It still doesn't matter if they go under they will have insurance ,I put a company through , 3 years later I got a claim for injury off a customer ,I passed it on to my insurance company at the time and they paid out to the claimant ,all this at the moment is trying to pass liability once liability gets established then insurance will have to pay out
Interesting, thankfully I don't know much about legal stuff regarding putting a company under, if your right,then good news all around regarding payments etc.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:54 am
epping blue wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Bakedalasker wrote:Cardiff will most likely will be forced to pay the transfer money on the agreed terms.
What Cardiff need to do is invetigate who organised the flight and what precautions they took. If what is being said it was a gas engineer who was the pilot then Cardiff will have a case against the organisers. If the organisers are connected to Nantes then yes I can see the transfer being nullified. This could take time, Cardiff will pay a couple of installments then the subject will come ot a close.
Ian, the problem is suing the agents, I have heard the main one is virtually bankrupt on paper.
The three instalments are £5mill every year for three years, plus £3mill if we stay up this season. £5mill was was frozen over 3weeks ago by City.
It could be a case of Nantes suing the agent over the lack of dillegence in the flight arrangements. As I have always seen it, its all about the appointment o the agent in the deal and whether or not that arrangement covers the flight.
If the flight was organised by a third party then theres no question we bear the brunt and claim from our insurers / operators insurance.
If Sala seperately contracted the agants to supply the transport then its a grey area and we probably bear the brunt.
The fact that it was a freebie makes it part of the deal in my view. He would not reasonably have been providing that plane, bar for the remuneration he was getting through the deal. So as I see it, its part of the deal. If this the scenario then Nantes are responsible in line for this flight assuming they appointed the agent to act in the deal.
The insurance for the flight operator is a huge issue. If your flying very valuable / high net worth individuals around you need to be carrying substantial insurance cover. I dont see that being extended to pilots with out the correct experience and licences. I fear we may might learn that the operators insurance was inadeaute, in effective and possibly not even in place. That could negate all insurance claims up the line. If the agent is using this operator on a regular basis he would surely have confirmed that the operator had the correct cover n place.
In my view Cardiff are playing it exactly as they should. We had no contractual link to the flight. Nantes may have. Thats not saying it was their fault. Fault and responsibilty are different things here.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:55 am
Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:58 am
JulesK wrote:Annis, I know it's splitting hairs, but that is how insurance works, although he might have been registered with FAW was he registered with the FA at time of death?
Personally don't blame the club at all in questioning this as do you not think it strange how quickly Nantes were after money? For Christ's sake they hadn't got the poor lad out of wreckage..
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:02 am
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:07 am
Sven wrote:Cardiff may sue Nantes for negligence over Sala
Daily Telegraph
Sunday 17th February 2019
Cardiff City could launch a negligence claim against Nantes as soon as this week if an official report finds Emiliano Sala was flown to his death by a pilot who did not have the correct licence.
Senior figures at Cardiff are bracing themselves for an escalation in a legal row in which they were given until the end of last week to pay the first instalment of his £15 million ($A27 million) transfer fee.
Cardiff have frozen all payments while they wait for answers about how their record signing died and whether anyone could be held liable. Some of those answers could be provided this week, the Air Accidents Investigations Bureau having said it intended to publish an interim report into the January 21 crash within a month of it occurring.
Cardiff have also conducted an internal investigation that The Telegraph has been told has found no evidence pilot David Ibbotson held the licence necessary to carry passengers on a commercial basis.
If the AAIB confirms Ibbotson was not qualified for the trip, senior figures believe that would constitute negligence on the part of whoever recruited the part-time gas boiler engineer.
They also believe liability for that could be extended to cover Willie and Mark McKay - who admitted arranging Sala's flight but not selecting the plane or pilot - and, in turn, Nantes, for whom the duo had been working.
A successful negligence claim against the French club would slash the transfer fee owed to them for the player, where they have threatened legal action.
Cardiff could attempt to reduce the figure further by arguing the change of ownership of Sala was incomplete when he died as he had yet to be registered to play in the Premier League.
CARDIFF CITY CHAIRMAN MEHMET DALMAN:
Chairman Mehmet Dalman said: "We believe that the player was not registered with the Premier League".
It can also be revealed that Cardiff broke their transfer record to sign Sala despite major concerns about the deal at boardroom level.
More than one source has said that City's four-man transfer committee was split over buying the striker, with a vote ending 3-1 in favour of doing so.
When asked about the split, Dalman said: "I really don't think it is appropriate for me to comment at this stage but your line of inquiry is not necessarily wrong."
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:12 am
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:14 am
Pembroke bluebird wrote:In a interview with the press NW said he was my player
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:16 am
wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Help us avoid Emiliano Sala payment: Cardiff seek Premier League clubs' advice on escaping £15m transfer fee
Daily Mail
16/02/19
Cardiff City have contacted other Premier League clubs in an attempt to establish whether there may be grounds to avoid paying the full £15million transfer fee being demanded by Nantes for Emiliano Sala, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Letters sent in the past few days by lawyers acting for the club request help in ‘fighting off Nantes’ legal claim’, according to one source. They ask clubs for assistance in ‘sharing your knowledge of Sala as a player’.
The correspondence from a Cardiff law firm describes Sala as ‘the player that Cardiff tried to sign’, phrasing which makes it clear that the club believe they may not have to pay all — or indeed any — of the record transfer fee.
Details of the letters — which Cardiff on Saturday confirmed were sent — emerged as manager Neil Warnock and chief executive Ken Choo arrived in Argentina for the player’s wake and funeral.
The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Cardiff’s decision to approach Premier League clubs publicly linked with Sala is partly motivated by transfer broker Willie McKay’s admission in an email to the striker that he had sought to artificially inflate the price. McKay told Sala he had told the media of rival interest ‘just to stimulate interest in you’.
The club are seeking to establish whether there was indeed any interest at all from other clubs. McKay’s email to Sala listed Everton and West Ham as clubs he had linked the player to, though Crystal Palace, Fulham, Burnley and Wolves were also reported to be keen.
Seems they are going to go after the agents
But,
My big worry is Wez, in my opinion the agents are totally corrupt and know how to go under at the right time.
It still doesn't matter if they go under they will have insurance ,I put a company through , 3 years later I got a claim for injury off a customer ,I passed it on to my insurance company at the time and they paid out to the claimant ,all this at the moment is trying to pass liability once liability gets established then insurance will have to pay out
Interesting, thankfully I don't know much about legal stuff regarding putting a company under, if your right,then good news all around regarding payments etc.
Whoever is the insurance company at the time will be liable, different if the company had already gone through before the event
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:17 am
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:20 am
Forever Blue wrote:JulesK wrote:Annis, I know it's splitting hairs, but that is how insurance works, although he might have been registered with FAW was he registered with the FA at time of death?
Personally don't blame the club at all in questioning this as do you not think it strange how quickly Nantes were after money? For Christ's sake they hadn't got the poor lad out of wreckage..
I thought it was awful how quickly Nantes went for Cardiff regarding the money as it really was not the right time.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:25 am
BiglicksMcGoo wrote:
Taking the business reality view,
Essentially Cardiff have bought a £15 million asset from Nantes, this asset was then subsequently lost in transit. This asset had all the contracts signed, and the paperwork was in the process of being registered.
There would be a question of Cardiff City's insurance being valid, hence the comment about not being registered with the PL.
The agents were acting for Nantes in the transfer and arranged the flight, there is certainly a good question that for all intents and purposes the "asset" was still in the process of being transferred to Cardiff.
He was at Nantes training ground, most likely collecting personal belongings and kit, as well as tying up loose ends before finally transferring. Which may physically imply that the transfer of the asset was not fully complete. Yes contracts are signed but this would not take effect until the asset had been fully physically transferred.
Nantes as a seller may have a liability for insurance on the transfer the asset to Cardiff.
This should have been kept of of the media, and Cardiff maybe should have paid the first installment, but that's easy for me to say as a fan as it not my money.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:31 am
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:34 am
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:35 am
Forever Blue wrote:dogfound wrote:Forever Blue wrote:It is what I thought would happen all along.
It could well end up with Nantes being grateful for receiving a reduced amount for the deceased Sala and Cardiff suing agent McKay for any amount they do pay.
What I struggle to see is how could Cardiff claim any money for Sala from their Lloyds of London insurance policy if Sala is deemed not to be their player? If, indeed, there is now a claim been put in.
My opinion, Sadly I don't think Cardiff will come out of this with much credit, which will take away all the good we have built up.
it sounds as if there is no insurance mate.
if something goes wrong and your covered you just pass it on to who covers you. its their job to argue the technicalities of who is responsible for what.
I was told with in 48hrs of this terrible tragedy, City were going to come unstuck regarding insurance, I hoped that it was wrong and still is wrong.
Emiliano Sala was registered with the Welsh FA as our player, the first people you need to roster a player with if your Cardiff City
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:40 am
snoopystorm wrote:Forever Blue wrote:dogfound wrote:Forever Blue wrote:It is what I thought would happen all along.
It could well end up with Nantes being grateful for receiving a reduced amount for the deceased Sala and Cardiff suing agent McKay for any amount they do pay.
What I struggle to see is how could Cardiff claim any money for Sala from their Lloyds of London insurance policy if Sala is deemed not to be their player? If, indeed, there is now a claim been put in.
My opinion, Sadly I don't think Cardiff will come out of this with much credit, which will take away all the good we have built up.
it sounds as if there is no insurance mate.
if something goes wrong and your covered you just pass it on to who covers you. its their job to argue the technicalities of who is responsible for what.
I was told with in 48hrs of this terrible tragedy, City were going to come unstuck regarding insurance, I hoped that it was wrong and still is wrong.
Emiliano Sala was registered with the Welsh FA as our player, the first people you need to roster a player with if your Cardiff City
I think this is the key part that’s going to go against us, regardless of not being registered as a PL player we all know that was a matter of time, the fact that FAW accepted the transfer shows that the PL would have done the same. This would be part of the defence. Yes it’s going tight ugly, and it’s going to go on for a while, it’s going to pull the club apart, looks like it’s causing fractures already with what MD and NW have both said
Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:59 am
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:07 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Pembroke bluebird wrote:In a interview with the press NW said he was my player
But that doesn't mean that whoever is responsible for arranging the flight didn't have a duty of care. It would seem that the club believe that Nantes have vicarious liability as the agent who arranged the flight was working on their behalf.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:37 pm
Forever Blue wrote:wez1927 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:Help us avoid Emiliano Sala payment: Cardiff seek Premier League clubs' advice on escaping £15m transfer fee
Daily Mail
16/02/19
Cardiff City have contacted other Premier League clubs in an attempt to establish whether there may be grounds to avoid paying the full £15million transfer fee being demanded by Nantes for Emiliano Sala, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
Letters sent in the past few days by lawyers acting for the club request help in ‘fighting off Nantes’ legal claim’, according to one source. They ask clubs for assistance in ‘sharing your knowledge of Sala as a player’.
The correspondence from a Cardiff law firm describes Sala as ‘the player that Cardiff tried to sign’, phrasing which makes it clear that the club believe they may not have to pay all — or indeed any — of the record transfer fee.
Details of the letters — which Cardiff on Saturday confirmed were sent — emerged as manager Neil Warnock and chief executive Ken Choo arrived in Argentina for the player’s wake and funeral.
The Mail on Sunday can reveal that Cardiff’s decision to approach Premier League clubs publicly linked with Sala is partly motivated by transfer broker Willie McKay’s admission in an email to the striker that he had sought to artificially inflate the price. McKay told Sala he had told the media of rival interest ‘just to stimulate interest in you’.
The club are seeking to establish whether there was indeed any interest at all from other clubs. McKay’s email to Sala listed Everton and West Ham as clubs he had linked the player to, though Crystal Palace, Fulham, Burnley and Wolves were also reported to be keen.
Seems they are going to go after the agents
But,
My big worry is Wez, in my opinion the agents are totally corrupt and know how to go under at the right time.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:47 pm
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:54 pm
Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:21 pm
Sun Feb 17, 2019 3:44 pm
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:56 pm
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:57 pm
Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:59 pm
nins27 wrote:How can some say this will pull the club apart ffs do you have a crystal ball, why should it pull the club apart? the club as never been as strong as it is now, We have a strong boardroom, strong manager, and fans united as one.
Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:11 pm
BobbyBlue wrote:nins27 wrote:How can some say this will pull the club apart ffs do you have a crystal ball, why should it pull the club apart? the club as never been as strong as it is now, We have a strong boardroom, strong manager, and fans united as one.
Exactly mate few of the usual suspects on here who haven’t a clue, if we stay up all will soon be forgotten and everyone will be jumping on the glory wagon.