“ Winston Churchill was a villain “

It's a great pity to see that some posters here have become so brainwashed and attached to the secular pseudo moralities of a treacherous political elite that they have become permanently detached from the realities of the natural world and the practicalities of surviving in it.
Those who follow the teachings of the insane tyrants who constantly strive to disprove nature and replace it with their own self serving version of the human perspective will inevitably get a terrible shock. Of course, when that happens they will hide behind the sofa and scream for men like Churchill to face and beat the enemy for them - trouble is there might be none of them left by that time

He was asked for one word. Should have just answered next. By mentioning Tonypandy as his 2nd word he has created faff when he didn’t need to.

I agree with him mind. On Tonypandy he was a villain.

If you asked me about Churchill and Bomber Command I would go even further than villain.

However as a war leader? Unsurpassed.

It's a great pity to see that some posters here have become so brainwashed and attached to the secular pseudo moralities of a treacherous political elite that they have become permanently detached from the realities of the natural world and the practicalities of surviving in it.
Those who follow the teachings of the insane tyrants who constantly strive to disprove nature and replace it with their own self serving version of the human perspective will inevitably get a terrible shock. Of course, when that happens they will hide behind the sofa and scream for men like Churchill to face and beat the enemy for them - trouble is there might be none of them left by that time

Welcome to the 'Wikipedia Generation' where fact finding and truth no longer matter; false explanations, ready made excuses and answers to fit the agenda are just a finger tap away...!

Can you imagine most of today's pampered yoof standing up for anything of real consequence?

Winston Churchill was a true British hero and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go revisit history and (maybe) speak to those few who are still left to tell the real story from a true 'ITK' position

It's a great pity to see that some posters here have become so brainwashed and attached to the secular pseudo moralities of a treacherous political elite that they have become permanently detached from the realities of the natural world and the practicalities of surviving in it.
Those who follow the teachings of the insane tyrants who constantly strive to disprove nature and replace it with their own self serving version of the human perspective will inevitably get a terrible shock. Of course, when that happens they will hide behind the sofa and scream for men like Churchill to face and beat the enemy for them - trouble is there might be none of them left by that time

So people aren’t allowed an opinion now?

It's a great pity to see that some posters here have become so brainwashed and attached to the secular pseudo moralities of a treacherous political elite that they have become permanently detached from the realities of the natural world and the practicalities of surviving in it.
Those who follow the teachings of the insane tyrants who constantly strive to disprove nature and replace it with their own self serving version of the human perspective will inevitably get a terrible shock. Of course, when that happens they will hide behind the sofa and scream for men like Churchill to face and beat the enemy for them - trouble is there might be none of them left by that time

Welcome to the 'Wikipedia Generation' where fact finding and truth no longer matter; false explanations, ready made excuses and answers to fit the agenda are just a finger tap away...!

Can you imagine most of today's pampered yoof standing up for anything of real consequence?

Winston Churchill was a true British hero and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to go revisit history and (maybe) speak to those few who are still left to tell the real story from a true 'ITK' position

I have spoken to members of Bomber Command. They don’t see him as a hero.

Churchill shit on Bomber Command even leaving them without a campaign medal.Harris took the blame and buggered off to South Africa.As far as winning the war ask the 27 million Russian war dead about that.Ninety per cent of Wehrmacht casualties were inflicted on the Eastern front.Yet Stalin wiped out 40 million of his own including a deliberate famine in the Ukraine which 5 million starved to death, an attempt to snuff out Ukranian Nationalism.Churchill was the right man of course; Halifax would have sought terms with the Germans, I have no doubt.Our troops did a splendid job with what they had, but we ought to avoid simplistic, jingoistic sloganism when it come to the historical process.Quite frankly it is lazy.The people showed Churchill what they really thought in 1945, no more slums, full employment, healthcare, education ,old age pensions.After the first war none of this was even considered the Churchill's of this world let men who fought in WW1 be unemployed.

Churchill shit on Bomber Command even leaving them without a campaign medal.Harris took the blame and buggered off to South Africa.As far as winning the war ask the 27 million Russian war dead about that.Ninety per cent of Wehrmacht casualties were inflicted on the Eastern front.Yet Stalin wiped out 40 million of his own including a deliberate famine in the Ukraine which 5 million starved to death, an attempt to snuff out Ukranian Nationalism.Churchill was the right man of course; Halifax would have sought terms with the Germans, I have no doubt.Our troops did a splendid job with what they had, but we ought to avoid simplistic, jingoistic sloganism when it come to the historical process.Quite frankly it is lazy.The people showed Churchill what they really thought in 1945, no more slums, full employment, healthcare, education ,old age pensions.After the first war none of this was even considered the Churchill's of this world let men who fought in WW1 be unemployed.

yes people felt they needed changes a new different country. was that showing Churchill what they really though ?
he was voted back in in 1951.

Hero no question about it.

It's a great pity to see that some posters here have become so brainwashed and attached to the secular pseudo moralities of a treacherous political elite that they have become permanently detached from the realities of the natural world and the practicalities of surviving in it.
Those who follow the teachings of the insane tyrants who constantly strive to disprove nature and replace it with their own self serving version of the human perspective will inevitably get a terrible shock. Of course, when that happens they will hide behind the sofa and scream for men like Churchill to face and beat the enemy for them - trouble is there might be none of them left by that time

So people aren’t allowed an opinion now?

I didn't say anything like that . Clearly people are entitled to opinions, but those with opposing opinions are equally entitled to state them . I'd be most interested what I said there which you consider to be suggesting that anyone isn't allowed an opinion.

It depends under what context and who this question is being put forward to. From a British perspective, I think it's a no brainer when discussing his contribution to WW2, one of the most significant victories in our entire history and for that he should be held in very high regard; he was the leader Britain needed at the time. (Although I would argue that it really didn't take a lot of moral fiber to oppose the Nazi regime, like millions of others did at the time)

But John McDonnell's comments are in the context of the Tonypandy riots and Churchill's role in that, and I fully understand the perspective of those who witnessed those events at the time. I'm sure if you asked the Polish the same question, their minds would wander to the Katyn Massacre and Churchill's involvement in covering that up. His role in WW2 does not give him a blind pass on the many skeletons in his closet.

In my opinion, a necessary evil, for want of a better word.

It depends under what context and who this question is being put forward to. From a British perspective, I think it's a no brainer when discussing his contribution to WW2, one of the most significant victories in our entire history and for that he should be held in very high regard; he was the leader Britain needed at the time. (Although I would argue that it really didn't take a lot of moral fiber to oppose the Nazi regime, like millions of others did at the time)

But John McDonnell's comments are in the context of the Tonypandy riots and Churchill's role in that, and I fully understand the perspective of those who witnessed those events at the time. I'm sure if you asked the Polish the same question, their minds would wander to the Katyn Massacre and Churchill's involvement in covering that up. His role in WW2 does not give him a blind pass on the many skeletons in his closet.

In my opinion, a necessary evil, for want of a better word.

couple of things. didn't take a lot of moral fibre to oppose the Nazis ????? millions EVENTUALLY did.
and the Katyn massacre. not quite sure what anyone that knocks him and Roosevelt over this would have done themselves or expected them to do. the massacre had taken place 4 years earlier , the bodies were found by the Nazis ~{ who were still at war with both ourselves and Russia } and we desperately needed Stalin and Russia onside.

Utterly ridiculous and superficial question which deserved the superficial answer it got. Of course he was a war hero, at least in WW2. Those who know anything about Gallipoli in WW1 would see him in a different light. As Chancellor in the 20's the guy was a comedian and made the Great Depression deeper and longer-lived by trying to control the value of money through re-introducing the "gold standard". Bottom line he was a complete mixed bag and the villain/ hero question is a joke.

"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA".[18]

The words of John McDonnell from 2003 supporting the murderous acts of the IRA and this arsehole has the nerve to question the actions of probably the greatest British man of modern times.

The truth is Winston Churchill was not perfect, who is, but trust me WC scrapped better things off the sole of his shoes than this tosser McDonnell.

good post am a bit shocked there are not more like it. villain ? are people having a laugh or what.
I am of an age where both my grandfathers and some of their brothers served in WW2 ,as did their mates, and as I got older I worked and drank with ex servicemen who had also fought...never heard a bad word said of him.
and never heard such twisted brainwashed leftie rubbish as some have posted on here and can only presume they are younger.

the bomber command comment in particular. THEY ffs. most are dead but the vast majority of people that actually fought held Churchill in high regard you only need to look at his funeral ,how many attended, the tv audience figures to figure out what high regard he was held in by the nation and how out of step some are now with those who actually sacrificed .

shame on you.
wir sprechen kein deutsch , sieg heil

couple of things. didn't take a lot of moral fibre to oppose the Nazis ????? millions EVENTUALLY did.
and the Katyn massacre. not quite sure what anyone that knocks him and Roosevelt over this would have done themselves or expected them to do. the massacre had taken place 4 years earlier , the bodies were found by the Nazis ~{ who were still at war with both ourselves and Russia } and we desperately needed Stalin and Russia onside.

Hence 'necessary evil'. Same applies to his role in the four million plus Bengalis starving to death.

Ultimately he was a product of a time that many of us can never truly comprehend. I think many are too quick to judge him by modern standards, but also too quick to blindly label him a hero.

good post am a bit shocked there are not more like it. villain ? are people having a laugh or what.
I am of an age where both my grandfathers and some of their brothers served in WW2 ,as did their mates, and as I got older I worked and drank with ex servicemen who had also fought...never heard a bad word said of him.
and never heard such twisted brainwashed leftie rubbish as some have posted on here and can only presume they are younger.

the bomber command comment in particular. THEY ffs. most are dead but the vast majority of people that actually fought held Churchill in high regard you only need to look at his funeral ,how many attended, the tv audience figures to figure out what high regard he was held in by the nation and how out of step some are now with those who actually sacrificed .

shame on you.
wir sprechen kein deutsch , sieg heil[/quote]

I said in a previous post he was a complete mixed bag and such a stupid superficial question around hero or villain can't be answered in two minutes of airtime. Regarding "leftie" stuff, I suppose it's a bit ironic the "righties" were bricking it over going into WW2 and were behind appeasement of Hitler. It was the "lefties" who heavily supported Churchill as war leader and helped get him the job. Not really well advertised but then the TV idiots who ask idiotic questions assume that people are either incapable of reading or have studied modern history.

couple of things. didn't take a lot of moral fibre to oppose the Nazis ????? millions EVENTUALLY did.
and the Katyn massacre. not quite sure what anyone that knocks him and Roosevelt over this would have done themselves or expected them to do. the massacre had taken place 4 years earlier , the bodies were found by the Nazis ~{ who were still at war with both ourselves and Russia } and we desperately needed Stalin and Russia onside.

Hence 'necessary evil'. Same applies to his role in the four million plus Bengalis starving to death.

Ultimately he was a product of a time that many of us can never truly comprehend. I think many are too quick to judge him by modern standards, but also too quick to blindly label him a hero.

Good points. I might add that those who study history and philosophy holistically will quickly conclude that our own current "modern standards" are no more than a localised glitch in the nature of mankind. As in some previous brief regimes, a politically fictionalised version of the the world has been foisted upon many people by replacing real education with a State information program.
Such regimes begin by contradicting God and nature, move on to contradicting each other and end up contradicting themselves,
and they never last .

Murderer

Murderer

Yes, it’s why we won. Every leader usually is, bit like Blair, and those who voted for him. Blood on their hands.

As the current Labour leadership believe that the only answer is to live in Socialist paradise whilst ignoring the massive negative effect every paradise has had on the people living within them says more about them than Sir Winston Churchill
How many millions did Stalin murder ?

Without the Russians we were screwed.We could not have invaded France without the Americans. We should refer to the joint effort.Bomber command was a huge influence necessitating the concentration of German fighter squadrons to be deployed in defence of the homeland.Equally one million German troops were deployed on flak and other home defence duties. Bomber Command's attrition rate was only second to that of the German U Boat fleet.Churchill to his shame dumped on them.

He was a a racist anti-Welsh villain.

When questioned on the starving Welsh miners, he is reported to have stated “less us fill their bellies with lead”.

For the cucked BritNats mongs amongst us - that means shoot and kill miners who were fighting for decent working hours.

Churchill didn’t win the war, ordinary men lie in random fields across Europe did

Silly question asked to give a one word answer "hero or villain. " Today's media love short sound bites. Very rarely is anything that black or white.
More fool McDonnel for answering it.

He was a a racist anti-Welsh villain.

When questioned on the starving Welsh miners, he is reported to have stated “less us fill their bellies with lead”.

For the cucked BritNats mongs amongst us - that means shoot and kill miners who were fighting for decent working hours.

Churchill didn’t win the war, ordinary men lie in random fields across Europe did

You’re making yourself look silly. Do your research, and stop spouting crap.
Read Will Mainwaring’s account of Tonypandy. He was there, and was in the Cambrian Lodge.

Silly question asked to give a one word answer "hero or villain. " Today's media love short sound bites. Very rarely is anything that black or white.
More fool McDonnel for answering it.

Yep should have diplomatically said next like he did for the previous question.

Or said Great War leader.

Judgment was made about Churchill by the men who returned from war in 1945 and voted him out with a landslide Labour victory. My father was one of those who served 39-45 and didn't have a good word to say about him.
He was known by that generation as a warmonger.

Didn't he stand up against Adolf and play a massive part in the defeat of the Nazi invasion of Europe. Ummm. War criminal. So therefore, he should have sat back smoked his cigar and let Adolf conquer us.

HERO
One of the greatest Britain’s ever

I can name a leader that did good things for our country it was Clement Attlee, bar from winnng the war in a coalition government, Churchill made awful decisions,and racist remarks, there is always a moral code, Clement Attlee was one the best leaders in the 1945 Labour government that made our country better for all the people,who give us our NHS, Welfare state which took millions out of poverty,better housing with a mass house building programme which put Britain on the road to recovery after the war.

Yeah, what a guy !
All those great decisions to promise people free stuff for votes worked out brilliantly didn't they ?
Got rid of poverty, housing shortages , unemployment and poor healthcare for once and all. How we have all benefitted from his brilliant foresight , he knew that scheme could never go wrong unlike silly old Churchill who thought they'd eventually run out of other people's money and wouldn't be able to cope with the stuff they'd promised to do.
Same basic idea as they used in Venezuela , and it's working just as brilliantly there !

Can't wait till Jeremy Corbyn gets in so he can take it to the next stage !