Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 am
dogfound wrote:Scandinavianbluebird wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Dahboy wrote:paulh_85 wrote:nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .
jesus.
cant go throwing shit like that around ffs
And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.
so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club?
the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.
How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..
jumping to conclusions.
what you say is of course possible.
but its also possible Emiliano wanted to stay in Nantes as long as possible and not have the visit curtailed by travelling to and from airports for a commercial flight where times and destination are set., spoke to the agent who actually did sort this out as a{ non billable } favour { after all he probably made small fortune on the deal }
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:14 am
Scandinavianbluebird wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Dahboy wrote:paulh_85 wrote:nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .
jesus.
cant go throwing shit like that around ffs
And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.
so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club?
the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.
How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:24 am
Scandinavianbluebird wrote:dogfound wrote:Scandinavianbluebird wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Dahboy wrote:paulh_85 wrote:nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .
jesus.
cant go throwing shit like that around ffs
And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.
so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club?
the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.
How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..
jumping to conclusions.
what you say is of course possible.
but its also possible Emiliano wanted to stay in Nantes as long as possible and not have the visit curtailed by travelling to and from airports for a commercial flight where times and destination are set., spoke to the agent who actually did sort this out as a{ non billable } favour { after all he probably made small fortune on the deal }
Like I said. I’m not supporting the theory including the club. I would be shocked if tha was true. But it’s how the pilots claim this business operate, and you would not find that flight searching google.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:25 am
Scandinavianbluebird wrote:dogfound wrote:Scandinavianbluebird wrote:paulh_85 wrote:Dahboy wrote:paulh_85 wrote:nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .
jesus.
cant go throwing shit like that around ffs
And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.
so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club?
the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.
How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..
jumping to conclusions.
what you say is of course possible.
but its also possible Emiliano wanted to stay in Nantes as long as possible and not have the visit curtailed by travelling to and from airports for a commercial flight where times and destination are set., spoke to the agent who actually did sort this out as a{ non billable } favour { after all he probably made small fortune on the deal }
Like I said. I’m not supporting the theory including the club. I would be shocked if tha was true. But it’s how the pilots claim this business operate, and you would not find that flight searching google.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:41 am
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:51 am
AV3 wrote:Interesting interview with the pilot who was originally named - A lot of what he says fits in with what is being posted/asked in the various threads:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine- ... erry-pilot
Remember that the lad won't have had big money at his disposal given he'd been playing in France. If he was going to have to pay for the jet that Cardiff were offering, you can see why others could have got involved and sourced cheaper options. I doubt anyone looked too far into why they were cheaper.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:01 am
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:06 am
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:25 am
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:34 am
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?
What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.
However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.
Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.
Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.
Let that sink in
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:05 pm
JulesK wrote:Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?
What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.
However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.
Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.
Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.
Let that sink in
Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??
Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:06 pm
Logie wrote:I'd say its not the club saving money more the agent making money.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:37 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:JulesK wrote:Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?
What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.
However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.
Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.
Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.
Let that sink in
Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??
Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.
I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:43 pm
dogfound wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:JulesK wrote:Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?
What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.
However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.
Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.
Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.
Let that sink in
Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??
Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.
I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.
agree, those are my thoughts exactly. way to many assumptions in there.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:41 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:25 pm
nubbsy wrote:Once again daggers are you and non of you know f**k all but desperate to string someone up. Get a grip of yourselfs.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:28 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:17 pm
marky1927 wrote:Reading about what has gone on is shocking, if any of this is true there will be a large paper trail in emails and texts , i hope the authorities act as quick as possible and start taking phones and computers before these start going missing as well.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:12 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:JulesK wrote:Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?
What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.
However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.
Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.
Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.
Let that sink in
Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??
Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.
I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:26 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:07 pm
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:JulesK wrote:Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?
What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.
However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.
Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.
Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.
Let that sink in
Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??
Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.
I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.
The legal type of charter would be with an air taxi operator operating on a commercial air operators certificate
Using a twin engine (Performance A ) aircraft with two crew up front both commercially licenced and type rated on the
the aircraft they are operating.
It takes a huge amount of work for an air taxi firm to be issued with an Air operators Certificate ,but passengers
Can take comfort in the fact that they company they are travelling with is operating to the same standards as a commercial Airline.
Anything else where money has been exchanged is illegal under the air navigation order.
The pilot involved had a private pilots licence , whereby it is an offence to accept payment for the transport
of passengers for hire and reward. You must hold a commercial licence to do this.
Do you really think no money changed hands ?
Do you think any of this was explained to Emilio ? Unlikely..... his agent cut corners.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:22 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:37 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:08 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:39 pm
Cardiffcitymad wrote:I'm dumbfounded by some of the comments on this thread, do you seriously believe that pilot went out to kill himself??
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:40 pm
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:44 pm
dogfound wrote:Sky High Bluebird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:JulesK wrote:Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?
What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.
However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.
Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.
Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.
Let that sink in
Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??
Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.
I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.
The legal type of charter would be with an air taxi operator operating on a commercial air operators certificate
Using a twin engine (Performance A ) aircraft with two crew up front both commercially licenced and type rated on the
the aircraft they are operating.
It takes a huge amount of work for an air taxi firm to be issued with an Air operators Certificate ,but passengers
Can take comfort in the fact that they company they are travelling with is operating to the same standards as a commercial Airline.
Anything else where money has been exchanged is illegal under the air navigation order.
The pilot involved had a private pilots licence , whereby it is an offence to accept payment for the transport
of passengers for hire and reward. You must hold a commercial licence to do this.
Do you really think no money changed hands ?
Do you think any of this was explained to Emilio ? Unlikely..... his agent cut corners.
THINK ? your last 2 sentences contain think.
its not about thinking its about facts and evidence. and i am afraid your post is based on neither.
you may well be proved right , I am sure its crossed many peoples minds since the beginning ,but at this point in time there is no evidence of it.
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:46 pm
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Cardiffcitymad wrote:I'm dumbfounded by some of the comments on this thread, do you seriously believe that pilot went out to kill himself??
Nope but given his qualifications or rather lack of them , he was an accident waiting to happen.
In general aviation over confidence in your flying abilities combined with a lack of judgement usually ends badly.
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:19 am