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Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 am

dogfound wrote:
Scandinavianbluebird wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
Dahboy wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .




jesus.


cant go throwing shit like that around ffs

And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.




so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club? :banghead: :banghead:

the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.

How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..



jumping to conclusions.
what you say is of course possible.
but its also possible Emiliano wanted to stay in Nantes as long as possible and not have the visit curtailed by travelling to and from airports for a commercial flight where times and destination are set., spoke to the agent who actually did sort this out as a{ non billable } favour { after all he probably made small fortune on the deal }

Like I said. I’m not supporting the theory including the club. I would be shocked if tha was true. But it’s how the pilots claim this business operate, and you would not find that flight searching google.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:14 am

Scandinavianbluebird wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
Dahboy wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .




jesus.


cant go throwing shit like that around ffs

And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.




so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club? :banghead: :banghead:

the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.

How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..


I would be lying if I said that the same thought (stated by Nojac) had not crossed my mind. I said it was probably the agent who arranged th transport. I thought that would be Meissa N'diaye (same agent as Bamba) but I could not understand why on earth he would go for this cheap optuon. City had offered a commercial flight! It is now clear that Mr Mc Kay arranged it. We will have to wait for the facts. Like in most fatal accidents there is likely to be several reasons.
Was the aeroplane airworthy had it has a suitable maintenance / service record? If the wreckage is located was there suitable safety equipment in place etc
Who was responsible for carrying out a suitable and sufficient risk assessment? E.g considering obvious risks - plane used; the alleged difficulties at take off, the experience of the pilot, the icey weather etc.
Should the pilot have carried out a dynamic assessment and not taken off or turned back earlier.Or delay until daylight?
We will have to wait for the investigation results. But
Why a cheap private option chosen after City had offered a commercial flight is very strange and very difficult to understand.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:24 am

Scandinavianbluebird wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Scandinavianbluebird wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
Dahboy wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .




jesus.


cant go throwing shit like that around ffs

And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.




so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club? :banghead: :banghead:

the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.

How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..



jumping to conclusions.
what you say is of course possible.
but its also possible Emiliano wanted to stay in Nantes as long as possible and not have the visit curtailed by travelling to and from airports for a commercial flight where times and destination are set., spoke to the agent who actually did sort this out as a{ non billable } favour { after all he probably made small fortune on the deal }

Like I said. I’m not supporting the theory including the club. I would be shocked if tha was true. But it’s how the pilots claim this business operate, and you would not find that flight searching google.



knowing how to get around rules or laws does not mean you have, it certainly does not mean some one else you do not know has.
ive read the pilots forum, yes its interesting but I am sure that just like me you spotted quite a few { just like on here } who will comment inappropriately on things they know very little about.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:25 am

Scandinavianbluebird wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Scandinavianbluebird wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
Dahboy wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
nojac wrote:If I'm wrong I am sorry.
But I believe it's all about money.
Cardiff city offered to arrange and pay for the flight,but it was declined.
The agent arranged the flight and would bill Cardiff city for it.
It seems to me costs were cut, but he would have billed the club thousands. Where as the flight would only cost hundreds.
Again if I'm wrong I apologise.
I assume this goes on all the time , and if it wasn't for this terrible tragedy no one would know.
But I do know , Tan,Dalman and Choo will not rest until the truth comes out .




jesus.


cant go throwing shit like that around ffs

And he's probably right. I think this McKay has fucked up big time here. Just going on whats been said btw.




so you think its right to accuse the agent of trying to defraud the club? :banghead: :banghead:

the guy has come out and said he and his family dont own the plane, i dont really see how this is his fault.

How do you think the agent came across this deal Paul? It’s not listed as a commercial fligh. The pilot is not registered. Not something you can google up. Not supporting that theory, but I’ve read something similar to how they go arround regulation on commercial flying. “Order something, and pay for something else”..



jumping to conclusions.
what you say is of course possible.
but its also possible Emiliano wanted to stay in Nantes as long as possible and not have the visit curtailed by travelling to and from airports for a commercial flight where times and destination are set., spoke to the agent who actually did sort this out as a{ non billable } favour { after all he probably made small fortune on the deal }

Like I said. I’m not supporting the theory including the club. I would be shocked if tha was true. But it’s how the pilots claim this business operate, and you would not find that flight searching google.



knowing how to get around rules or laws does not mean you have, it certainly does not mean some one else you do not know has.
ive read the pilots forum, yes its interesting but I am sure that just like me you spotted quite a few { just like on here } who will comment inappropriately on things they know very little about.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:41 am

Interesting interview with the pilot who was originally named - A lot of what he says fits in with what is being posted/asked in the various threads:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine- ... erry-pilot

Remember that the lad won't have had big money at his disposal given he'd been playing in France. If he was going to have to pay for the jet that Cardiff were offering, you can see why others could have got involved and sourced cheaper options. I doubt anyone looked too far into why they were cheaper.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:51 am

AV3 wrote:Interesting interview with the pilot who was originally named - A lot of what he says fits in with what is being posted/asked in the various threads:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/magazine- ... erry-pilot

Remember that the lad won't have had big money at his disposal given he'd been playing in France. If he was going to have to pay for the jet that Cardiff were offering, you can see why others could have got involved and sourced cheaper options. I doubt anyone looked too far into why they were cheaper.



Cardiff did not offer a jet, we offered a seat on a commercial flight.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:01 am

Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:06 am

It became apparent quite quickly that the level of accountability reference the flight was negligent.

This will finish these agents if it is proven, which I am sure it will be.
I cannot believe what they were thinking other than saving a few bob

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:25 am

I'd say its not the club saving money more the agent making money.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:34 am

Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in



Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??

Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:05 pm

JulesK wrote:
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in



Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??

Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.


I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:06 pm

Logie wrote:I'd say its not the club saving money more the agent making money.


The above is an excellent example of someone stating their opinion and not painting it up as fact.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:37 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
JulesK wrote:
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in



Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??

Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.


I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.



agree, those are my thoughts exactly. way to many assumptions in there.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:43 pm

dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
JulesK wrote:
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in



Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??

Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.


I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.



agree, those are my thoughts exactly. way to many assumptions in there.

Are they? I´d like to think pro aviators know what they are talking about. And the forum you referred to earlier, they sure have done a lot of digging around. They had it all, long before any newspaper. The number and specs on the plane. Who ownes it. Who sub rented it and so on. Assumptions it is, but based on the information we have at this point. And they are strongly pointing in a direction.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:41 pm

Think we all just have to wait and hope information comes out.

Just reading up about what was said that its not the best getting to and from Nantes and similar cities, long travel times Nearly 3 hour train journey from Nantes to Paris) and having to go through Paris/Amsterdam/London etc

I mean we all think it will never happen to us, it was also said that its common from footballers from that part of france to go via private plane (although im sure it be better with a private jet then single engine prop plane) to the UK as it can save so much time and hassle.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:25 pm

nubbsy wrote:Once again daggers are you and non of you know f**k all but desperate to string someone up. Get a grip of yourselfs.

I know Wullie McKay is known as Wullie McLies in Scotland.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:28 pm

Reading about what has gone on is shocking, if any of this is true there will be a large paper trail in emails and texts , i hope the authorities act as quick as possible and start taking phones and computers before these start going missing as well.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:17 pm

marky1927 wrote:Reading about what has gone on is shocking, if any of this is true there will be a large paper trail in emails and texts , i hope the authorities act as quick as possible and start taking phones and computers before these start going missing as well.


Agree with you and maybe the boys in blue should be asking questions,after all this is 2 people who have gone missing .

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:12 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
JulesK wrote:
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in



Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??

Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.


I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.


The legal type of charter would be with an air taxi operator operating on a commercial air operators certificate
Using a twin engine (Performance A ) aircraft with two crew up front both commercially licenced and type rated on the
the aircraft they are operating.
It takes a huge amount of work for an air taxi firm to be issued with an Air operators Certificate ,but passengers
Can take comfort in the fact that they company they are travelling with is operating to the same standards as a commercial Airline.

Anything else where money has been exchanged is illegal under the air navigation order.

The pilot involved had a private pilots licence , whereby it is an offence to accept payment for the transport
of passengers for hire and reward. You must hold a commercial licence to do this.
Do you really think no money changed hands ?

Do you think any of this was explained to Emilio ? Unlikely..... his agent cut corners.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:26 pm

Regarding accusations in this thread, we all know from history that vincent is incredibly vigilant about matters concerning our club. He has come across to me as an honourable man and I suspect he will not rest until as much as possible is brought to light as to how this tragedy occurred.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:07 pm

Sky High Bluebird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
JulesK wrote:
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in



Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??

Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.


I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.


The legal type of charter would be with an air taxi operator operating on a commercial air operators certificate
Using a twin engine (Performance A ) aircraft with two crew up front both commercially licenced and type rated on the
the aircraft they are operating.
It takes a huge amount of work for an air taxi firm to be issued with an Air operators Certificate ,but passengers
Can take comfort in the fact that they company they are travelling with is operating to the same standards as a commercial Airline.

Anything else where money has been exchanged is illegal under the air navigation order.

The pilot involved had a private pilots licence , whereby it is an offence to accept payment for the transport
of passengers for hire and reward. You must hold a commercial licence to do this.
Do you really think no money changed hands ?

Do you think any of this was explained to Emilio ? Unlikely..... his agent cut corners.



THINK ? your last 2 sentences contain think.
its not about thinking its about facts and evidence. and i am afraid your post is based on neither.
you may well be proved right , I am sure its crossed many peoples minds since the beginning ,but at this point in time there is no evidence of it.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:22 pm

I didn't know any of the pitfalls associated with flying that plane over the channel at night. I dare say that Sala didn't either. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't make such a journey if you paid me a million £.

What shocks me more than anything is that such a risky journey is permitted. Something as risky as that would be outlawed on the roads. It almost beggars belief that in this day and age such risks are permitted.

Certainly, a professional sportsman will never travel in this manner ever again.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:37 pm

Mirror now reporting that pilot only had a private licence ie. Can fly and carry passengers but not for payment.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:00 pm

Emiliano Sala flight to be investigated over 'legality of pilot's licence'
Sala and pilot David Ibbotson were the only men on board the aircraft which went missing earlier this week

The legality the licence of the pilot of Emiliano Sala's missing flight is set to be investigated.

The £15m striker was travelling from Nantes to Cardiff when his private jet went missing on Monday night.


Sala and the plane’s pilot – David Ibbotson – were the only men on board the aircraft but neither have been found after three days of searching.

Guernsey Police have now decided to call off the search despite the desperate pleas of Sala's family.

Air Accident Investigation Branch officials have confirmed they are investigating whether the flight, that was chartered by Sala's agent was legal.


However, the legality of the flight would be brought into question if he profits from any journey.

The 59-year-old would require a commercial licence if he was paid a fee totalling more than his fuel costs and expenses, reports the Sun.

A Civil Aviation Authority source said: “The issue of whether the trip was undertaken on a commercial basis and the level of the pilot’s qualification will be addressed by the investigation.


“But the priority right now is to find the aircraft and what happened to the people on board.”

It is suggested Sala's agent Mark McKay booked Mr. Ibbotson to fly the plane having used the pilot on separate occasions in the past.

Guernsey Police called off the search for the plane on Thursday, insisting the chances of survival were "very slim".

Sala's family and former Nantes teammates have pleaded with Guernsey Police to continue but it appears unlikely.

Cardiff meanwhile have confirmed they will pay tribute to the striker at Arsenal next week.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:08 pm

I'm dumbfounded by some of the comments on this thread, do you seriously believe that pilot went out to kill himself??

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:39 pm

Cardiffcitymad wrote:I'm dumbfounded by some of the comments on this thread, do you seriously believe that pilot went out to kill himself??


Nope but given his qualifications or rather lack of them , he was an accident waiting to happen.

In general aviation over confidence in your flying abilities combined with a lack of judgement usually ends badly.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:40 pm

If only Emiliano had taken up City's offer of arranging a commercial flight for him. Might have taken longer, but this would never have happened. Easy to say that with hindsight, I know. He wanted to go back to Nantes after signing, and get back in time for training on Tuesday. When I was travelling back to Cardiff from Italy a few years ago with KLM, Gabor Gyepes got on the connection at Schiphol, presumably from Hungary, so players do travel on scheduled flights. Just seems that this terrible tragedy is so unnecessary, and could have been avoided.

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:44 pm

dogfound wrote:
Sky High Bluebird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
JulesK wrote:
Sky High Bluebird wrote:Where do you start with this mess ?

What would have been the agents cut of this deal have been ? A couple of hundred thousand to broker a deal between
Two clubs , complete a bit of paperwork possibly , and generally “manage” their client.

However despite this it would appear they were incapable of arranging safe and LEGAL transport for said client and
apparently Lacked the gumption or morals to pick up a phone to a licenced air broker who would have a list of air taxi operators able to provide a safe twin engined aircraft flown by TWO crew ,trained to a high standard and subject to regular 6 monthly examinations and checks like I am at the airline I fly for in order to keep their licences.

Hell we even have one at Cardiff , http://dragonflyac.com/ , or maybe Centreline air charter at Bristol , or Capital air charter at Exeter , Haverfordwest air charter services etc etc....... I could go on.
5k to 7k tops for such a short trip.

Instead these spivs thought it acceptable to play fast and loose with their clients life and get their Mate a recreational private “pilot” but mostly a gas engineer/wedding dj to fly a £15 million pound footballer most likely illegally ,in a single engine piston aircraft in forecast icing conditions , at night over water in the depth of winter to save a few bob out of their couple of 100k cut of the Transfer fee.

Let that sink in



Good post and a serious point has to be how did someone actually come across this pilot unless he was an acquaintance??

Sadly all that matters for now is TWO men have lost their lives.


I have to disagree the above is a terrible post which has used the posters opinion as fact. How does he know the transport was not legal or the agent had not offered the services of flight taxi's to the player? Until the full facts are known we can only offer opinion's on what happened not facts.


The legal type of charter would be with an air taxi operator operating on a commercial air operators certificate
Using a twin engine (Performance A ) aircraft with two crew up front both commercially licenced and type rated on the
the aircraft they are operating.
It takes a huge amount of work for an air taxi firm to be issued with an Air operators Certificate ,but passengers
Can take comfort in the fact that they company they are travelling with is operating to the same standards as a commercial Airline.

Anything else where money has been exchanged is illegal under the air navigation order.

The pilot involved had a private pilots licence , whereby it is an offence to accept payment for the transport
of passengers for hire and reward. You must hold a commercial licence to do this.
Do you really think no money changed hands ?

Do you think any of this was explained to Emilio ? Unlikely..... his agent cut corners.



THINK ? your last 2 sentences contain think.
its not about thinking its about facts and evidence. and i am afraid your post is based on neither.
you may well be proved right , I am sure its crossed many peoples minds since the beginning ,but at this point in time there is no evidence of it.


I’ll make it more clear for you.

Money changed hands
Emilio wasn’t told

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:46 pm

Sky High Bluebird wrote:
Cardiffcitymad wrote:I'm dumbfounded by some of the comments on this thread, do you seriously believe that pilot went out to kill himself??


Nope but given his qualifications or rather lack of them , he was an accident waiting to happen.

In general aviation over confidence in your flying abilities combined with a lack of judgement usually ends badly.


Rubbish, he would have definitely had to have the qualifications to be insured to fly the plane, I'm not sure who is posting this nonsense but the CAA are so strict these days he wouldn't have got anywhere near the aircraft, plus of course if this was your plane which cost ££££'s would you allow him to fly it. :roll:

Re: Agent McKay - Arranged The Flight .

Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:19 am

:( :( :( :( :( :( :(