A second referrendum

A forum for all things Cardiff City

Would you now trust the British Parliament to hold an honest and true referrendum on the EU ?

1. Yes
25
30%
2. No
57
70%
 
Total votes : 82

Re: A second referrendum

Postby snoopystorm » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:40 pm

WelshBluebird wrote:
snoopystorm wrote:Junker already stated that when we leave the funding to the Welsh farmers ceases.... I hear this on a daily basis, so why pay in if they’re not paying out???

I say leave with no deal and they can sort their own finances out without our input


Err well yes of course it would cease. That funding is as part of us being a EU member. Why on earth would we still get that funding once out of the EU?

And why pay in? Because we have committed to. Think of it like a contact. We have already promised to pay that money.


Then if we’re still paying in and not getting anything out we’re still in on their terms and we voted out
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Re: A second referrendum

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Re: A second referrendum

Postby WelshBluebird » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:42 pm

snoopystorm wrote:Then if we’re still paying in and not getting anything out we’re still in on their terms and we voted out


We would no longer be an EU member - so we would be out!
It isn't that hard to understand
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:43 pm

snoopystorm wrote:
WelshBluebird wrote:
snoopystorm wrote:Junker already stated that when we leave the funding to the Welsh farmers ceases.... I hear this on a daily basis, so why pay in if they’re not paying out???

I say leave with no deal and they can sort their own finances out without our input


Err well yes of course it would cease. That funding is as part of us being a EU member. Why on earth would we still get that funding once out of the EU?

And why pay in? Because we have committed to. Think of it like a contact. We have already promised to pay that money.


Then if we’re still paying in and not getting anything out we’re still in on their terms and we voted out



But it's a one way contract we carry on paying after leaving but EU stops paying? Just about sums up the EU perfectly :old:
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby WelshBluebird » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:51 pm

pembroke allan wrote:But it's a one way contract we carry on paying after leaving but EU stops paying? Just about sums up the EU perfectly :old:


They are two different things and have nothing at all to do with each other.

Think of it this way, if there are any EU funded projects that the EU have already committed to funding that won't be due to be completed until say next year, the EU are still committed to funding that and will do so. So why shouldn't we?

Indeed the South Wales Metro project that should help improve train services in the Cardiff and valleys area is being part EU funded, and that money will still be paid despite us not being in the EU when the money is needed.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby snoopystorm » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:01 pm

Taken from Facebook

Billy Leach https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=638178836


Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby WelshBluebird » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:03 pm

snoopystorm wrote:Taken from Facebook


Copying and pasting other people's opinions from Facebook isn't really a good way to discuss issues with people!!
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:12 pm

WelshBluebird wrote:
snoopystorm wrote:Taken from Facebook


Copying and pasting other people's opinions from Facebook isn't really a good way to discuss issues with people!!



No but saves re typing it but point is it's highlighted things that you can respond to if you want to of course :thumbup:
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby WelshBluebird » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:16 pm

pembroke allan wrote:No but saves re typing it but point is it's highlighted things that you can respond to if you want to of course :thumbup:


It basically just blames the managed decline of the UK's manufacturing and engineering sectors on the EU instead of where the blame should lie - successive UK governments.

You do realise that by blaming the EU for a lot of these things you are letting successive right wing Tory and New Labour governments off the hook right? Thatcherites must be laughing their heads off, all this anger at their policies being blamed on the EU instead of the UK MP's who voted for it all.

Companies being owned by European companies has literally nothing to do with the EU for example. They could just as easily be run by an American company (and many are).

And it is easy to forget the UK has also been a beneficiary in some of those cases where EU money has been used to persuade a business to move elsewhere. Look at Sony in Bridgend.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby snoopystorm » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:29 pm

Thatcher and Major have a lot to answer too, we lost a hell of a lot during their time in office....

Effectively we paid our debt to the EU by saving their sorry white flag waving asses from a dictator, we don’t owe them a penny, in fact looking at it for that perspective they owe us...

There is a lot on that post that is spot on and as mentioned we can discuss points from it.

This is something we all have an opinion on and affects our futures, nothing wrong with healthy discussion, just don’t like being undermined or taken the piss out of for my opinion (and I’m not saying you have done WelshBluebird so please don’t take that as aimed at you because it certainly isn’t)
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby epping blue » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:53 pm

snoopystorm wrote:Taken from Facebook

Billy Leach https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=638178836


Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.

OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it




For everything that's wrong with EU its not responsible for most if indeed any of that. Companies have relocated for many years, that's what they do they find the cheapest place to carry out their business. The fact that we've allowed our utilities to fall into foreign ownership is our issue. Not particularly comfortable with it but as a chief economist at Deutsche Bank said in quote I read a few weeks ago. " Britain has always been the easiest place in the world to do business and I have no doubt it will remain " or something along those lines.


My gripe with the European union is simply its bureaucratic costly monster over which we have little control. If we don't like the government policy at Westminster we change it. We cant do that with Brussells. If we don't leave now then we'll be fully integrated before we know it. Only a few weeks ago Macron was promoting his proposals for a centralised budgets. Just about coincided with him having to put his hand in his pocket to buy off the French rioters. Next time he wants to put his hand in your pocket.


I don't have a issue particularly with immigration, having at least 50 eastern Europeans on my payroll over the last 15 years it would be hypocritical. I have just 1 remaining and its pain. On the whole they have a much better work attitude but we cant keep casting British youth aside cause there's a cheaper better alternative available. That's what big business has been doing so its little wonder that in general they're dead against leaving, they don't want the supply of cheap labour to dry up. Interestingly its no longer a cheap. The reduction in the numbers coming in from Europe are creating a supply issue which means that finally market forces are allowing rates to rise.

Like many of you I was in France for the duration of the Euros bar a cuople of meetings and coming back to do my company wages. I never once came across a working eastern european. A good few North Africans driving taxis and some from the far east working in restuarants and bars. The truth the economies not great in France and their far less liberal when it comes to giving work to foreigners. If 2 million eastern europeans had arrived in the workplace in France in the last 15 year, underminning wages, then the European Union would have gone up in flames on the Champs elysees long ago.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:54 pm

:old:
WelshBluebird wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:No but saves re typing it but point is it's highlighted things that you can respond to if you want to of course :thumbup:


It basically just blames the managed decline of the UK's manufacturing and engineering sectors on the EU instead of where the blame should lie - successive UK governments.

You do realise that by blaming the EU for a lot of these things you are letting successive right wing Tory and New Labour governments off the hook right? Thatcherites must be laughing their heads off, all this anger at their policies being blamed on the EU instead of the UK MP's who voted for it all.

Companies being owned by European companies has literally nothing to do with the EU for example. They could just as easily be run by an American company (and many are).

And it is easy to forget the UK has also been a beneficiary in some of those cases where EU money has been used to persuade a business to move elsewhere. Look at Sony in Bridgend.




Yes EU money as helped lots of things in UK but then what they give us is from the money we give them it is not a one way street although at times it is one way to EU with stop sign coming into UK

Ps EU also waste millions on unused cycle tracks in pembs as the eu signs indicate they fund them. :laughing6:
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby rumpo kid » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:44 pm

"And it is easy to forget the UK has also been a beneficiary in some of those cases where EU money has been used to persuade a business to move elsewhere. Look at Sony in Bridgend."

Sony are a Japanese Company, and opened there in 1974, before we joined the EEC.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby pembroke allan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:51 pm

rumpo kid wrote:"And it is easy to forget the UK has also been a beneficiary in some of those cases where EU money has been used to persuade a business to move elsewhere. Look at Sony in Bridgend."

Sony are a Japanese Company, and opened there in 1974, before we joined the EEC.



:laughing5: :laughing5: thanks he needed taking down a peg or two. He reminds me of someone else who was expert on the EU :thumbup:
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby Bananas » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:02 pm

Second referendum ASAP please!! :occasion5: :thumbup:

#wexitnotbrexit

#welshandeuropean
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby dogfound » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:26 pm

Bananas wrote:Second referendum ASAP please!! :occasion5: :thumbup:

#wexitnotbrexit

#welshandeuropean



ddynes rhag Delmonte dweud NA
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby Bluebirdforlife77 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:59 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
snoopystorm wrote:Worth a read....




Said all along germany France are petrified of a no deal as it will bankrupt half of the EU, why do you tThink they are hinting at a no brexit deal? Everyone knows we will be financially better of out of EU in long term and not strapped to a lot of semi bankrupt states like Italy greece and Ireland :old:


Everyone knows?
Well I don’t. Where did you get this from?
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby snoopystorm » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:03 pm

Bluebirdforlife77 wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
snoopystorm wrote:Worth a read....




Said all along germany France are petrified of a no deal as it will bankrupt half of the EU, why do you tThink they are hinting at a no brexit deal? Everyone knows we will be financially better of out of EU in long term and not strapped to a lot of semi bankrupt states like Italy greece and Ireland :old:


Everyone knows?
Well I don’t. Where did you get this from?


The cutting was out of The Telegraph, the article is also online dated 13 January 2018 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/13/eu-lose-500bn-uk-gain-640bn-no-deal-brexit-economist-claims/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby dogfound » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm

Bluebirdforlife77 wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
snoopystorm wrote:Worth a read....




Said all along germany France are petrified of a no deal as it will bankrupt half of the EU, why do you tThink they are hinting at a no brexit deal? Everyone knows we will be financially better of out of EU in long term and not strapped to a lot of semi bankrupt states like Italy greece and Ireland :old:


Everyone knows?
Well I don’t. Where did you get this from?



do you think they would even sit at a table to negotiate ANY sort of deal if Greece had voted to leave.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby stevee1966 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:26 pm

Thought this was a Cardiff City 'football' forum ?

You want to talk brexit then f**k off to a politics forum.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby Ninianman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:49 pm

Heard a great debate on this the other day,Mike Graham of Talk Radio was interviewing Stephen Doughty MP of Cardiff south.
Its on YouTube if you’re interested,Mike says to him,you can’t have another vote before you leave,leave first then if it’s not working then vote again to re-join
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby dogfound » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:05 am

stevee1966 wrote:Thought this was a Cardiff City 'football' forum ?

You want to talk brexit then f**k off to a politics forum.



yes I agree , whatever next , threads about geriatric musicians ?:lol: :lol:
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby WelshBluebird » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:25 am

pembroke allan wrote:Yes EU money as helped lots of things in UK but then what they give us is from the money we give them it is not a one way street although at times it is one way to EU with stop sign coming into UK

Ps EU also waste millions on unused cycle tracks in pembs as the eu signs indicate they fund them. :laughing6:


Yes it is from money the UK government give the EU.
However do you really think the UK government is going to spend any of that money in Wales? Because I don't.
We have been shown time and time again that Westminster does not care about investing in Wales, so what makes you think it will be any different this time?

As for EU investment being a waste, I'll ask you do you think the Pontypridd Lido (that was used by loads of people over last summer) is a waste? Or the already mentioned investment in the South Wales Metro? Or some of the dualling of the Heads Of The Valleys road to make it safer. Or various regeneration projects across South Wales.

Seriously, do a bit of research - Google, or have a look at https://www.myeu.uk and see. Tonnes of projects have been helped with EU money in areas which would not see a dot of money for similar things from Westminster. Sure you may think some of them are a waste, and you can have that opinion, I disagree, but surely have some of that money is better than having none of it?

rumpo kid wrote:
Sony are a Japanese Company, and opened there in 1974, before we joined the EEC.


The fact Sony are a Japanese company has literally nothing to do with it.

Yes they were in Bridged before the EU, but have a look at how much EU money has been used to help support the Sony presence there.

And you have multiple other examples too. Airbus in North Wales, the upcoming investments in the South Wales Metro (that will have some of the rolling stock built in Newport), etc etc. To suggest that the UK has not benefited from businesses being given EU money to base themselves here is insane. Especially from a Welsh point of view where that is even more true.

pembroke allan wrote: :laughing5: :laughing5: thanks he needed taking down a peg or two. He reminds me of someone else who was expert on the EU :thumbup:


I never said I am an expert.
But I am someome who actually looks at the facts and evidence in front of me, who questions what people say (especially when it sounds too good to be true) and likes to call people out when it turns out they were lying.

snoopystorm wrote:The cutting was out of The Telegraph, the article is also online dated 13 January 2018 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/13/eu-lose-500bn-uk-gain-640bn-no-deal-brexit-economist-claims/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget


As I mentioned before, there are literally no sources or evidence for his numbers.
He could be (and probably is) just making them up.

Ninianman wrote:leave first then if it’s not working then vote again to re-join


The problem with that is that the "deal" we currently have of our EU membership is one of the best you could ever want. Opt outs for the things we don't like, rebates on some of the costs of being a member, being pretty much in the driving seat for most of its history. We'd never get that if we wanted to rejoin.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby WelshBluebird » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:37 am

snoopystorm wrote:Thatcher and Major have a lot to answer too, we lost a hell of a lot during their time in office....

Effectively we paid our debt to the EU by saving their sorry white flag waving asses from a dictator, we don’t owe them a penny, in fact looking at it for that perspective they owe us...

There is a lot on that post that is spot on and as mentioned we can discuss points from it.

This is something we all have an opinion on and affects our futures, nothing wrong with healthy discussion, just don’t like being undermined or taken the piss out of for my opinion (and I’m not saying you have done WelshBluebird so please don’t take that as aimed at you because it certainly isn’t)


Sorry but you can't bring the war into this and then expect a serious and healthy discussion.
Literally nothing to do with the issues at hand these days.

epping blue wrote:My gripe with the European union is simply its bureaucratic costly monster over which we have little control. If we don't like the government policy at Westminster we change it. We cant do that with Brussells. If we don't leave now then we'll be fully integrated before we know it. Only a few weeks ago Macron was promoting his proposals for a centralised budgets. Just about coincided with him having to put his hand in his pocket to buy off the French rioters. Next time he wants to put his hand in your pocket.


The thing is, and this is something that leavers seem to be ignoring, we were in a very powerful position within the EU. We have been one of the driving countries for most of its history. A lot of the things the British press whinge about were actually decided by Brits (including Article 50 itself). To claim that the French could do anything to us whilst in the EU like you are is simply not true.

As for it being bureaucratic and that we can't change it. Well we can. We elect MEP's who make up the EU Parliament. Our government ministers (who are elected MP's) make up the EU Council. The council (which for the UK is represented by government ministers who are directly elected MP's from our Parliament) votes for the President and that is approved (or not) by the directly elected Parliament. Many financial topics and foreign policy topics need a unanimous vote so we can block anything we don't like there, and we also have various opt outs and vetos for specific areas too. Too say that isn't democratic and we have no control over it is just not true.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby Steve Zodiak » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:52 am

Seems to me that some people think it's the UK who are the only losers once Brexit happens. We pay in far more than we receive, so who is the net loser with regards to these funds. EU countries, like us, need to export goods. How many British cars do you see on the streets of this country? Who is relying on the UK to continue buying their products in massive numbers. Where are the countries situated who have an economy largely reliant on tourism, and where do a large percentage of these tourists come from. I could go on, but my point is, it is not just in our interest to leave the EU on good terms. This is not a one way discussion where the only loser might be the UK. A messy exit will have repercussions on plenty of other countries, not just us.
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:19 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:Seems to me that some people think it's the UK who are the only losers once Brexit happens. We pay in far more than we receive, so who is the net loser with regards to these funds. EU countries, like us, need to export goods. How many British cars do you see on the streets of this country? Who is relying on the UK to continue buying their products in massive numbers. Where are the countries situated who have an economy largely reliant on tourism, and where do a large percentage of these tourists come from. I could go on, but my point is, it is not just in our interest to leave the EU on good terms. This is not a one way discussion where the only loser might be the UK. A messy exit will have repercussions on plenty of other countries, not just us.




Very true Steve EU does not want no deal at any cost as it could be far worse for them than us :thumbup:
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Re: A second referrendum

Postby captbirdseye » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:09 pm

The Morris Marina, Austin Maestro and Reliant Robin - the pride of Britain.

The futures bright, the futures and Austin Allegro.
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