Cardiff City Forum



A forum for all things Cardiff City

Ireland got more than wales

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:57 pm

Ireland got the better pay off in this group in the end.

We stay in group B for the next tournament playing teams like Germany, Poland and Croatia

Ireland will be drawn against the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia and Belarus

It seems stupid that if you come bottom you get a guaranteed easier route in the next tournament.

Group B winners next time will be pretty much nailed on to be Germany already.

I would have rather been relegated however weird that sounds because if you dont win the group that is your best outcome

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:17 am

thomasblue wrote:Ireland got the better pay off in this group in the end.

We stay in group B for the next tournament playing teams like Germany, Poland and Croatia

Ireland will be drawn against the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia and Belarus

It seems stupid that if you come bottom you get a guaranteed easier route in the next tournament.

Group B winners next time will be pretty much nailed on to be Germany already.

I would have rather been relegated however weird that sounds because if you dont win the group that is your best outcome



its all maybees…....Ireland are now also guaranteed to be in pot 3 for the main EURO draw as opposed to us being in pot 2 which is still the best way to qualify ..the up side for them is yes they WILL have easier opponents in their league C mini league next time...
Germany nailed on winners...I think they will be hot favs to win their mini league and in so doing promotion...as for winning the knock outs to qualify for the finals...personally I think the Germans will not even take part in the knock outs as they will have already qualified via the main group stages...
which brings me back to the Irelands better pay off....although it looks as if we are out of the play offs, are we really.?

Countries who have qualified for their play offs but then win qualification to the finals via the main EURO qualification groups will give up their play off place to the next highest UEFA ranked country, I would imagine at least 12 of the 16 teams 12 from league A plus the 4 group winners from our league will be amongst the 20 qualifiers...which would guarantee us a play off place should we not have qualified..

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:58 am

dogfound wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Ireland got the better pay off in this group in the end.

We stay in group B for the next tournament playing teams like Germany, Poland and Croatia

Ireland will be drawn against the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia and Belarus

It seems stupid that if you come bottom you get a guaranteed easier route in the next tournament.

Group B winners next time will be pretty much nailed on to be Germany already.

I would have rather been relegated however weird that sounds because if you dont win the group that is your best outcome



its all maybees…....Ireland are now also guaranteed to be in pot 3 for the main EURO draw as opposed to us being in pot 2 which is still the best way to qualify ..the up side for them is yes they WILL have easier opponents in their league C mini league next time...
Germany nailed on winners...I think they will be hot favs to win their mini league and in so doing promotion...as for winning the knock outs to qualify for the finals...personally I think the Germans will not even take part in the knock outs as they will have already qualified via the main group stages...
which brings me back to the Irelands better pay off....although it looks as if we are out of the play offs, are we really.?

Countries who have qualified for their play offs but then win qualification to the finals via the main EURO qualification groups will give up their play off place to the next highest UEFA ranked country, I would imagine at least 12 of the 16 teams 12 from league A plus the 4 group winners from our league will be amongst the 20 qualifiers...which would guarantee us a play off place should we not have qualified..



The lower the pot in Euro qualification means ire having two harder teams to face rather than the one we will have? Generally thought nations league was to help lesser teams like Malta to have better chance to qualify for big competition.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:31 am

pembroke allan wrote:
dogfound wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Ireland got the better pay off in this group in the end.

We stay in group B for the next tournament playing teams like Germany, Poland and Croatia

Ireland will be drawn against the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia and Belarus

It seems stupid that if you come bottom you get a guaranteed easier route in the next tournament.

Group B winners next time will be pretty much nailed on to be Germany already.

I would have rather been relegated however weird that sounds because if you dont win the group that is your best outcome



its all maybees…....Ireland are now also guaranteed to be in pot 3 for the main EURO draw as opposed to us being in pot 2 which is still the best way to qualify ..the up side for them is yes they WILL have easier opponents in their league C mini league next time...
Germany nailed on winners...I think they will be hot favs to win their mini league and in so doing promotion...as for winning the knock outs to qualify for the finals...personally I think the Germans will not even take part in the knock outs as they will have already qualified via the main group stages...
which brings me back to the Irelands better pay off....although it looks as if we are out of the play offs, are we really.?

Countries who have qualified for their play offs but then win qualification to the finals via the main EURO qualification groups will give up their play off place to the next highest UEFA ranked country, I would imagine at least 12 of the 16 teams 12 from league A plus the 4 group winners from our league will be amongst the 20 qualifiers...which would guarantee us a play off place should we not have qualified..



The lower the pot in Euro qualification means ire having two harder teams to face rather than the one we will have? Generally thought nations league was to help lesser teams like Malta to have better chance to qualify for big competition.


It is likely to mean that the first year one or two small teams will qualify but after that it will be mainly the teams relegated from group B who will likely win C in the next tournament and so on.

We are guaranteed a hard draw either way by coming second.

We will be in pot 2 for the euros playing at least one team better than us.

The next nations league we have two hard teams again.

Ireland will have 1 top team, one at our level and the rest below them. Im the nations league they will play two poor teams in a group and have a massive chance to qualify for future tournaments.

The way it works is that if you cant win the group you are better off being relegated imo

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:38 am

But if all the teams in the top group qualify for the euros through usual qualifications doesn't that mean it comes to the teams in the second group or something like that, I read something like that :lol:

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:50 am

2blue2handle wrote:But if all the teams in the top group qualify for the euros through usual qualifications doesn't that mean it comes to the teams in the second group or something like that, I read something like that :lol:


I dont think anyone fully understands it.
Surely this play off should be played before the euro draw not after and the winning teams not entered to the main draw

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:53 am

thomasblue wrote:
2blue2handle wrote:But if all the teams in the top group qualify for the euros through usual qualifications doesn't that mean it comes to the teams in the second group or something like that, I read something like that :lol:


I dont think anyone fully understands it.
Surely this play off should be played before the euro draw not after and the winning teams not entered to the main draw


No idea, its lost on me.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:20 pm

2blue2handle wrote:But if all the teams in the top group qualify for the euros through usual qualifications doesn't that mean it comes to the teams in the second group or something like that, I read something like that :lol:



yes it does …

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:24 pm

thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
dogfound wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Ireland got the better pay off in this group in the end.

We stay in group B for the next tournament playing teams like Germany, Poland and Croatia

Ireland will be drawn against the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia and Belarus

It seems stupid that if you come bottom you get a guaranteed easier route in the next tournament.

Group B winners next time will be pretty much nailed on to be Germany already.

I would have rather been relegated however weird that sounds because if you dont win the group that is your best outcome



its all maybees…....Ireland are now also guaranteed to be in pot 3 for the main EURO draw as opposed to us being in pot 2 which is still the best way to qualify ..the up side for them is yes they WILL have easier opponents in their league C mini league next time...
Germany nailed on winners...I think they will be hot favs to win their mini league and in so doing promotion...as for winning the knock outs to qualify for the finals...personally I think the Germans will not even take part in the knock outs as they will have already qualified via the main group stages...
which brings me back to the Irelands better pay off....although it looks as if we are out of the play offs, are we really.?

Countries who have qualified for their play offs but then win qualification to the finals via the main EURO qualification groups will give up their play off place to the next highest UEFA ranked country, I would imagine at least 12 of the 16 teams 12 from league A plus the 4 group winners from our league will be amongst the 20 qualifiers...which would guarantee us a play off place should we not have qualified..



The lower the pot in Euro qualification means ire having two harder teams to face rather than the one we will have? Generally thought nations league was to help lesser teams like Malta to have better chance to qualify for big competition.


It is likely to mean that the first year one or two small teams will qualify but after that it will be mainly the teams relegated from group B who will likely win C in the next tournament and so on.

We are guaranteed a hard draw either way by coming second.

We will be in pot 2 for the euros playing at least one team better than us.

The next nations league we have two hard teams again.

Ireland will have 1 top team, one at our level and the rest below them. Im the nations league they will play two poor teams in a group and have a massive chance to qualify for future tournaments.

The way it works is that if you cant win the group you are better off being relegated imo



all this talk about harder and easier....the whole point is the better teams at a given time progress upwards and the weaker go down ......its like every league in every sport....

for as long as I can remember ive wanted us in a higher pot to make qualification just a bit easier..now we have fans that want to be in a pot as low as possible..crazy :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:32 pm

dogfound wrote:
thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
dogfound wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Ireland got the better pay off in this group in the end.

We stay in group B for the next tournament playing teams like Germany, Poland and Croatia

Ireland will be drawn against the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia and Belarus

It seems stupid that if you come bottom you get a guaranteed easier route in the next tournament.

Group B winners next time will be pretty much nailed on to be Germany already.

I would have rather been relegated however weird that sounds because if you dont win the group that is your best outcome



its all maybees…....Ireland are now also guaranteed to be in pot 3 for the main EURO draw as opposed to us being in pot 2 which is still the best way to qualify ..the up side for them is yes they WILL have easier opponents in their league C mini league next time...
Germany nailed on winners...I think they will be hot favs to win their mini league and in so doing promotion...as for winning the knock outs to qualify for the finals...personally I think the Germans will not even take part in the knock outs as they will have already qualified via the main group stages...
which brings me back to the Irelands better pay off....although it looks as if we are out of the play offs, are we really.?

Countries who have qualified for their play offs but then win qualification to the finals via the main EURO qualification groups will give up their play off place to the next highest UEFA ranked country, I would imagine at least 12 of the 16 teams 12 from league A plus the 4 group winners from our league will be amongst the 20 qualifiers...which would guarantee us a play off place should we not have qualified..



The lower the pot in Euro qualification means ire having two harder teams to face rather than the one we will have? Generally thought nations league was to help lesser teams like Malta to have better chance to qualify for big competition.


It is likely to mean that the first year one or two small teams will qualify but after that it will be mainly the teams relegated from group B who will likely win C in the next tournament and so on.

We are guaranteed a hard draw either way by coming second.

We will be in pot 2 for the euros playing at least one team better than us.

The next nations league we have two hard teams again.

Ireland will have 1 top team, one at our level and the rest below them. Im the nations league they will play two poor teams in a group and have a massive chance to qualify for future tournaments.

The way it works is that if you cant win the group you are better off being relegated imo



all this talk about harder and easier....the whole point is the better teams at a given time progress upwards and the weaker go down ......its like every league in every sport....

for as long as I can remember ive wanted us in a higher pot to make qualification just a bit easier..now we have fans that want to be in a pot as low as possible..crazy :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:


You just made the point perfectly
You said youve always wanted Wales in a higher pot to make qualification easier. This tournament allows you to get relegated to have the easier route not have to win the league.
Ireland have actually come out of this group better than us for future qualification even though we beat them twice

Imagine the league winners
from each of the football leagues divisions got promoted to the premier league every year. Would you rather have to play championship teams to do it or league 2 ?

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:41 pm

thomasblue wrote:
dogfound wrote:
thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
dogfound wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Ireland got the better pay off in this group in the end.

We stay in group B for the next tournament playing teams like Germany, Poland and Croatia

Ireland will be drawn against the likes of Kosovo, Macedonia and Belarus

It seems stupid that if you come bottom you get a guaranteed easier route in the next tournament.

Group B winners next time will be pretty much nailed on to be Germany already.

I would have rather been relegated however weird that sounds because if you dont win the group that is your best outcome



its all maybees…....Ireland are now also guaranteed to be in pot 3 for the main EURO draw as opposed to us being in pot 2 which is still the best way to qualify ..the up side for them is yes they WILL have easier opponents in their league C mini league next time...
Germany nailed on winners...I think they will be hot favs to win their mini league and in so doing promotion...as for winning the knock outs to qualify for the finals...personally I think the Germans will not even take part in the knock outs as they will have already qualified via the main group stages...
which brings me back to the Irelands better pay off....although it looks as if we are out of the play offs, are we really.?

Countries who have qualified for their play offs but then win qualification to the finals via the main EURO qualification groups will give up their play off place to the next highest UEFA ranked country, I would imagine at least 12 of the 16 teams 12 from league A plus the 4 group winners from our league will be amongst the 20 qualifiers...which would guarantee us a play off place should we not have qualified..



The lower the pot in Euro qualification means ire having two harder teams to face rather than the one we will have? Generally thought nations league was to help lesser teams like Malta to have better chance to qualify for big competition.


It is likely to mean that the first year one or two small teams will qualify but after that it will be mainly the teams relegated from group B who will likely win C in the next tournament and so on.

We are guaranteed a hard draw either way by coming second.

We will be in pot 2 for the euros playing at least one team better than us.

The next nations league we have two hard teams again.

Ireland will have 1 top team, one at our level and the rest below them. Im the nations league they will play two poor teams in a group and have a massive chance to qualify for future tournaments.

The way it works is that if you cant win the group you are better off being relegated imo



all this talk about harder and easier....the whole point is the better teams at a given time progress upwards and the weaker go down ......its like every league in every sport....

for as long as I can remember ive wanted us in a higher pot to make qualification just a bit easier..now we have fans that want to be in a pot as low as possible..crazy :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:


You just made the point perfectly
You said youve always wanted Wales in a higher pot to make qualification easier. This tournament allows you to get relegated to have the easier route not have to win the league.
Ireland have actually come out of this group better than us for future qualification even though we beat them twice



no
the MAIN route to the finals is via the qualifiers..and in theory the higher the pot the less chance of drawing better teams..

how on earth is pot 3 better than pot 2?
and how on earth is them being less likely to be brought back into the play offs better..?


and yes I made the point perfectly...anyone that thinks either of the above is good is crazy.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:44 pm

Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:13 pm

thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




Think about it! if what you say is true all top sides would have played 2nd string players to be relegated ? But it's obviously not that simple or it would have happened, relegation can never be better than not being relegated in football :old:
Thought only teams in top groups can qualify for Euro 20 through nations cup with a knock on effect for remaining teams.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:25 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




Think about it! if what you say is true all top sides would have played 2nd string players to be relegated ? But it's obviously not that simple or it would have happened, relegation can never be better than not being relegated in football :old:
Thought only teams in top groups can qualify for Euro 20 through nations cup with a knock on effect for remaining teams.


I have thought about it. And it shows how stupid the format is that a team who finishes bottom of a group has a easier group the next tournament! That is a fact of this format

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:48 pm

thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




Think about it! if what you say is true all top sides would have played 2nd string players to be relegated ? But it's obviously not that simple or it would have happened, relegation can never be better than not being relegated in football :old:
Thought only teams in top groups can qualify for Euro 20 through nations cup with a knock on effect for remaining teams.


I have thought about it. And it shows how stupid the format is that a team who finishes bottom of a group has a easier group the next tournament! That is a fact of this format




Ok so why haven't teams gone for relegation to have easier entry into euro 20? Haven't heared of any team playing weakened side to insure relegation? You could well be right but it flies in the face of all footballing principles that relegation is for losers or have UEFA stumbled across a new idea to reward relegation? :o

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:37 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




Think about it! if what you say is true all top sides would have played 2nd string players to be relegated ? But it's obviously not that simple or it would have happened, relegation can never be better than not being relegated in football :old:
Thought only teams in top groups can qualify for Euro 20 through nations cup with a knock on effect for remaining teams.


I have thought about it. And it shows how stupid the format is that a team who finishes bottom of a group has a easier group the next tournament! That is a fact of this format




Ok so why haven't teams gone for relegation to have easier entry into euro 20? Haven't heared of any team playing weakened side to insure relegation? You could well be right but it flies in the face of all footballing principles that relegation is for losers or have UEFA stumbled across a new idea to reward relegation? :o


The tournament was made to allow the smaller nations a better chance of qualifying for a tournament.

The way it is working out and will in the future makes it better for a team to be relegated than finish second.

As a example

Ireland in the 2024 euro league
Will be in group C - currently as the groups stand will play against any of :

Scotland
Greece
Hungary
Cyprus
Bulgaria
Macedonia
Romania
Georgia
Kosovo
Belarus
N Ireland
Turkey
Slovakia

We will be in group B against :

Germany
Czech Rep
Sweden
Croatia
Iceland
Poland
Austria
Serbia
Norway
Turkey
Israel

I know which group i would rather play against on the next tournament

The relegated team gets a much easier path in the next tournament whilst the second place team stays in the harder group

Not sure how that is fair, groups should be done each time given rankings not on promotion and relegation

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:23 pm

Read simple thing about nations cup whilst ire can qualify for Euro 20 as winners of their nations group which they are relegated to its not a simple route though! Also they will lose out on qualifying at later taunament as they will be further down list because of relegation so in theory will have two highter ranked teams above them Whilst we will have one, think problem is it looks as if relegated teams benefit but in long run they don't. :old:

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:47 am

It appears to me that many do not understand how the Nations League works with the Euro 2020 qualifying. It seems simple to me.
There will be 24 qualifiers for Euro 2020. There will be 10 groups from which the top 2 qualify (20). The remaining 4 will come from the playoffs, 1 from each Nations League group A to D. For example, the winners of the 4 groups in league B will play off to give 1 qualifier, however, if a winner of a Group in League B has already qualified then second in their group will play off. The teams who qualify from the Euro 2020 groups are omitted from the Nations League groups and the remainder move up to fill the gaps to creat playoffs in Leagues A - D. Therefore if Denmark qualify from their Euro 2020 group then we move up and are guaranteed a playoff if we do not. If we do the Ireland move up to play off. This means that there will be Euro finals qualifiers from Nations League groups A, B, C and D. Simples!

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:08 am

sotonblue wrote:It appears to me that many do not understand how the Nations League works with the Euro 2020 qualifying. It seems simple to me.
There will be 24 qualifiers for Euro 2020. There will be 10 groups from which the top 2 qualify (20). The remaining 4 will come from the playoffs, 1 from each Nations League group A to D. For example, the winners of the 4 groups in league B will play off to give 1 qualifier, however, if a winner of a Group in League B has already qualified then second in their group will play off. The teams who qualify from the Euro 2020 groups are omitted from the Nations League groups and the remainder move up to fill the gaps to creat playoffs in Leagues A - D. Therefore if Denmark qualify from their Euro 2020 group then we move up and are guaranteed a playoff if we do not. If we do the Ireland move up to play off. This means that there will be Euro finals qualifiers from Nations League groups A, B, C and D. Simples!




That's not quite correct. If Denmark qualify directly the play off spot doesn't pass to us or indeed on to Ireland in the event that we qualify. The only team guaranteed a play off spot is the group winners, in this case Denmark. If they qualify directly the place is awarded to the highest placed team in the overall league of the Nations League division who hasn't otherwise qualified.

In practice we're almost certain of a play off spot. There are effectively 8 play off spots available for the top 2 divisions. That would taske 8 teams above us in both divisions not to qualify directly before we missed the play offs completely. That wont happen. In fact I'll be surprised if Ireland miss out on the play offs albeit a league A play off. That could be anyone and infact this does provide the potential for an easier route. That play off could easily contain Iceland and if 15 of the top 2 divisions have qualified directly they'll have to promote teams from league C to make up that play off. That would be teams who haven't made the play offs in league C. That may then be easier. On the risk side it could well contain one of the big teams who fouled up in League A.

The play offs themselves are a bit of an arse though especialy for us fans.


1. These are single leg ties. Unless your the highest ranked team in your play off you wont know on the Thursday where your playing tyhe final on the Sunday ( for instance ) Home or away. If you are the higest ranked team at least you know your at home for the first game and final if you get there.

2. If you qualify through the finals you'll be joing 3 teams whose supporters have had 3 months head start on booking accommodation and flights. The finals could be a logstical nightmare nightamre next time anyway without having no time to organise them. 3 months soring out travelling between Rome and Baku or Copenhagen and St Petersburg could be a right arseache on te pocket.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:06 am

thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




Think about it! if what you say is true all top sides would have played 2nd string players to be relegated ? But it's obviously not that simple or it would have happened, relegation can never be better than not being relegated in football :old:
Thought only teams in top groups can qualify for Euro 20 through nations cup with a knock on effect for remaining teams.


I have thought about it. And it shows how stupid the format is that a team who finishes bottom of a group has a easier group the next tournament! That is a fact of this format




Ok so why haven't teams gone for relegation to have easier entry into euro 20? Haven't heared of any team playing weakened side to insure relegation? You could well be right but it flies in the face of all footballing principles that relegation is for losers or have UEFA stumbled across a new idea to reward relegation? :o


The tournament was made to allow the smaller nations a better chance of qualifying for a tournament.

The way it is working out and will in the future makes it better for a team to be relegated than finish second.

As a example

Ireland in the 2024 euro league
Will be in group C - currently as the groups stand will play against any of :

Scotland
Greece
Hungary
Cyprus
Bulgaria
Macedonia
Romania
Georgia
Kosovo
Belarus
N Ireland
Turkey
Slovakia

We will be in group B against :

Germany
Czech Rep
Sweden
Croatia
Iceland
Poland
Austria
Serbia
Norway
Turkey
Israel

I know which group i would rather play against on the next tournament

The relegated team gets a much easier path in the next tournament whilst the second place team stays in the harder group

Not sure how that is fair, groups should be done each time given rankings not on promotion and relegation




Actually its a biannual tournament. The next one is scheduled for sept 2020 to Nov 2020 directly after the 2020 euros. I'm not sure how that will works in with the 2022 world cup qualifiers and in particular the play offs for those. I cant see FIFA wanting to go with the timings. They will want they're qualifying done and dusted in 2021.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:07 am

thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




Think about it! if what you say is true all top sides would have played 2nd string players to be relegated ? But it's obviously not that simple or it would have happened, relegation can never be better than not being relegated in football :old:
Thought only teams in top groups can qualify for Euro 20 through nations cup with a knock on effect for remaining teams.


I have thought about it. And it shows how stupid the format is that a team who finishes bottom of a group has a easier group the next tournament! That is a fact of this format




Ok so why haven't teams gone for relegation to have easier entry into euro 20? Haven't heared of any team playing weakened side to insure relegation? You could well be right but it flies in the face of all footballing principles that relegation is for losers or have UEFA stumbled across a new idea to reward relegation? :o


The tournament was made to allow the smaller nations a better chance of qualifying for a tournament.

The way it is working out and will in the future makes it better for a team to be relegated than finish second.

As a example

Ireland in the 2024 euro league
Will be in group C - currently as the groups stand will play against any of :

Scotland
Greece
Hungary
Cyprus
Bulgaria
Macedonia
Romania
Georgia
Kosovo
Belarus
N Ireland
Turkey
Slovakia

We will be in group B against :

Germany
Czech Rep
Sweden
Croatia
Iceland
Poland
Austria
Serbia
Norway
Turkey
Israel

I know which group i would rather play against on the next tournament

The relegated team gets a much easier path in the next tournament whilst the second place team stays in the harder group

Not sure how that is fair, groups should be done each time given rankings not on promotion and relegation




Actually its a biannual tournament. The next one is scheduled for sept 2020 to Nov 2020 directly after the 2020 euros. I'm not sure how that will works in with the 2022 world cup qualifiers and in particular the play offs for those. I cant see FIFA wanting to go with the timings. They will want they're qualifying done and dusted in 2021.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:50 pm

thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




yes there are 2, one has 4 places the other 20..the one with 4 you get to play teams level with your selves...the one with 20 you get to play 3 or 4 teams lower...
yes we can I HOPE draw ROI from bag 3 and they are far from certainties to win a group down there either let alone a group and the play offs.

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:36 pm

epping blue wrote:
thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
thomasblue wrote:Because there is now two qualifying tournaments

One is the normal route
The other is the nations league where ireland will now be guaranteed no teams from pot 1 or 2 to play against to qualify

How is that not better than Wales situation ?

Even in the normal qualifiers ireland would have a similar draw to wales and could even play each other again which means we would have exactly the same draw




Think about it! if what you say is true all top sides would have played 2nd string players to be relegated ? But it's obviously not that simple or it would have happened, relegation can never be better than not being relegated in football :old:
Thought only teams in top groups can qualify for Euro 20 through nations cup with a knock on effect for remaining teams.


I have thought about it. And it shows how stupid the format is that a team who finishes bottom of a group has a easier group the next tournament! That is a fact of this format




Ok so why haven't teams gone for relegation to have easier entry into euro 20? Haven't heared of any team playing weakened side to insure relegation? You could well be right but it flies in the face of all footballing principles that relegation is for losers or have UEFA stumbled across a new idea to reward relegation? :o


The tournament was made to allow the smaller nations a better chance of qualifying for a tournament.

The way it is working out and will in the future makes it better for a team to be relegated than finish second.

As a example

Ireland in the 2024 euro league
Will be in group C - currently as the groups stand will play against any of :

Scotland
Greece
Hungary
Cyprus
Bulgaria
Macedonia
Romania
Georgia
Kosovo
Belarus
N Ireland
Turkey
Slovakia

We will be in group B against :

Germany
Czech Rep
Sweden
Croatia
Iceland
Poland
Austria
Serbia
Norway
Turkey
Israel

I know which group i would rather play against on the next tournament

The relegated team gets a much easier path in the next tournament whilst the second place team stays in the harder group

Not sure how that is fair, groups should be done each time given rankings not on promotion and relegation




Actually its a biannual tournament. The next one is scheduled for sept 2020 to Nov 2020 directly after the 2020 euros. I'm not sure how that will works in with the 2022 world cup qualifiers and in particular the play offs for those. I cant see FIFA wanting to go with the timings. They will want they're qualifying done and dusted in 2021.



On the basis of what's put above that will mean all the top teams in Europe be in same group A? Far as im aware they have not changed things from the seeding system where a top seed doesn't play another top seed in qualification for Euro qualification? Anyway football must be changing for a relegated team to profit above mid table team? Should be fun with all the sides playing under 23 players to try and get relegated in nations cup 2020. :o

Re: Ireland got more than wales

Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:03 pm

epping blue wrote:
sotonblue wrote:It appears to me that many do not understand how the Nations League works with the Euro 2020 qualifying. It seems simple to me.
There will be 24 qualifiers for Euro 2020. There will be 10 groups from which the top 2 qualify (20). The remaining 4 will come from the playoffs, 1 from each Nations League group A to D. For example, the winners of the 4 groups in league B will play off to give 1 qualifier, however, if a winner of a Group in League B has already qualified then second in their group will play off. The teams who qualify from the Euro 2020 groups are omitted from the Nations League groups and the remainder move up to fill the gaps to creat playoffs in Leagues A - D. Therefore if Denmark qualify from their Euro 2020 group then we move up and are guaranteed a playoff if we do not. If we do the Ireland move up to play off. This means that there will be Euro finals qualifiers from Nations League groups A, B, C and D. Simples!




That's not quite correct. If Denmark qualify directly the play off spot doesn't pass to us or indeed on to Ireland in the event that we qualify. The only team guaranteed a play off spot is the group winners, in this case Denmark. If they qualify directly the place is awarded to the highest placed team in the overall league of the Nations League division who hasn't otherwise qualified.

In practice we're almost certain of a play off spot. There are effectively 8 play off spots available for the top 2 divisions. That would taske 8 teams above us in both divisions not to qualify directly before we missed the play offs completely. That wont happen. In fact I'll be surprised if Ireland miss out on the play offs albeit a league A play off. That could be anyone and infact this does provide the potential for an easier route. That play off could easily contain Iceland and if 15 of the top 2 divisions have qualified directly they'll have to promote teams from league C to make up that play off. That would be teams who haven't made the play offs in league C. That may then be easier. On the risk side it could well contain one of the big teams who fouled up in League A.

The play offs themselves are a bit of an arse though especialy for us fans.


1. These are single leg ties. Unless your the highest ranked team in your play off you wont know on the Thursday where your playing tyhe final on the Sunday ( for instance ) Home or away. If you are the higest ranked team at least you know your at home for the first game and final if you get there.

2. If you qualify through the finals you'll be joing 3 teams whose supporters have had 3 months head start on booking accommodation and flights. The finals could be a logstical nightmare nightamre next time anyway without having no time to organise them. 3 months soring out travelling between Rome and Baku or Copenhagen and St Petersburg could be a right arseache on te pocket.



yep..if the top 20 teams qualify through the qualifiers...thats ALL of lge A and the 8 teams finishing 1st or 2nd in the league B it will mean the 4 countries finishing 2nd in league C will be drawn into play offs...we most defo are not missing out on a play off spot should we not qualify properly.