noisycat wrote:Why do we have to pay £39 billion to leave? For once I agree with Trump, tell them to f..k off or even sue THEM.
We are legally obliged to due to a financial commitment to collaborative projects.
noisycat wrote:Why do we have to pay £39 billion to leave? For once I agree with Trump, tell them to f..k off or even sue THEM.
CityBlue93 wrote:dogfound wrote:moonboots wrote:rumpo kid wrote:Yes, gross impertinence to want to be in charge of your own destiny.
Once we’ve left the eu, we’ll scrap the senedd. Right load of gobbledygog...
I'd rather scrap Westminster. A right load of totally incompetent idiots....as we are now seeing.
Westminster aint great...but seriously what on earth is the WA about...there was no ground swell of demand for it..74% did not vote for it. and since its been there its just been an expensive mistake nobody cares about..
Didn't the '97 devolution vote go in favour of an assembly? what's the 74% you're referring to here?
captbirdseye wrote:dogfound wrote:captbirdseye wrote:welshrarebit wrote:The issue is that as a country we are not unified in a love of the giant burocractic monster called the European Union. We may like being friends and working together but in my experience most people don't like the formal union.
That's what came out in the referendum. Problem is most of the politicians are so firmly entrenched in wanting that monster. Gives them more places to go when national politics gets boring and means they can defer blame easily when they cock up. They are fighting tooth and nail to keep us in Hence the poor excuse of a fudge we have now.
Or maybe it can't actually be delivered because it's all a pipe dream by Boris and all the back bench political charlatans.
Everything we do in daily life and all the supply chains are so deeply in trenches in EU law that picking them apart will hugely affect jobs and the economic safety of the UK.
But hey, sovereignty and all that archaic nationalist bullshit are much more important than people's lively hoods.
scaremongering......in my life time Germany has been re united....czechoslovakia has become 2 countries....the USSR became god knows how many , a war in Yugoslavia resulting in how many new states....plus more countries gaining independence than you can shake a stick at.....yet us leaving the EU is impossible..
its not
More massive self harm than impossible which is all based on some miss guided idea of nationalism.
People expecting a decent deal to be done in 2 years with 40 years worth of EU legislation, now that's impsossible. But hey, Rees and his cronies will blame the evil EU now so it all plays into their hands.
lisvaneblue wrote:dogfound wrote:moonboots wrote:rumpo kid wrote:Yes, gross impertinence to want to be in charge of your own destiny.
Once we’ve left the eu, we’ll scrap the senedd. Right load of gobbledygog...
I'd rather scrap Westminster. A right load of totally incompetent idiots....as we are now seeing.
Westminster aint great...but seriously what on earth is the WA about...there was no ground swell of demand for it..74% did not vote for it. and since its been there its just been an expensive mistake nobody cares about..
As they say ...that's democracy
Remember that our own Welsh Assembly Government was formed by a referendum with a 50% turnout and a margin for it of only 0.6%...Yes 0.6%
But we go with it because that's democracy
A 2% margin to leave the EU, (much larger than that in Wales where I think it was 6%,) and we find it a hard pill to swallow and complain like hell
dogfound wrote:captbirdseye wrote:dogfound wrote:captbirdseye wrote:welshrarebit wrote:The issue is that as a country we are not unified in a love of the giant burocractic monster called the European Union. We may like being friends and working together but in my experience most people don't like the formal union.
That's what came out in the referendum. Problem is most of the politicians are so firmly entrenched in wanting that monster. Gives them more places to go when national politics gets boring and means they can defer blame easily when they cock up. They are fighting tooth and nail to keep us in Hence the poor excuse of a fudge we have now.
Or maybe it can't actually be delivered because it's all a pipe dream by Boris and all the back bench political charlatans.
Everything we do in daily life and all the supply chains are so deeply in trenches in EU law that picking them apart will hugely affect jobs and the economic safety of the UK.
But hey, sovereignty and all that archaic nationalist bullshit are much more important than people's lively hoods.
scaremongering......in my life time Germany has been re united....czechoslovakia has become 2 countries....the USSR became god knows how many , a war in Yugoslavia resulting in how many new states....plus more countries gaining independence than you can shake a stick at.....yet us leaving the EU is impossible..
its not
More massive self harm than impossible which is all based on some miss guided idea of nationalism.
People expecting a decent deal to be done in 2 years with 40 years worth of EU legislation, now that's impsossible. But hey, Rees and his cronies will blame the evil EU now so it all plays into their hands.
I don't believe for one minute people saying these things actually believe them...how did ALL those countries ive mentioned and eluded to do it..magic?..
dogfound wrote:
scaremongering......in my life time Germany has been re united....czechoslovakia has become 2 countries....the USSR became god knows how many , a war in Yugoslavia resulting in how many new states....plus more countries gaining independence than you can shake a stick at.....yet us leaving the EU is impossible..
its not
Lengee wrote:dogfound wrote:
scaremongering......in my life time Germany has been re united....czechoslovakia has become 2 countries....the USSR became god knows how many , a war in Yugoslavia resulting in how many new states....plus more countries gaining independence than you can shake a stick at.....yet us leaving the EU is impossible..
its not
This is a very good argument FOR the EU. The bonds within the EU have held and helped maintain peace. The country within the EU is Germany and it was reunited without bloodshed. The Yugoslav wars (not war) were outside the EU and sadly cost the lives of about 140000 people!
The lack of effective response / action by the UN (and to some extent the EU) to the Yugoslav wars is a related but separate question. Indeed, there is/was a lot that needed improving within the EU.The EU needed improving from within ....rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater!
I think it unwise to untie friendly ties between nations. Silver tongued Charletons feed off ancient grievances between nations and make them rhyme with nationalism and desired for conquest.
However, my opening thread was merely commenting on the unholy mess made of post BREXIT negotiations by the Tories. And that after starting the referendum when the public were not asking for it. Whatever your politics, that is patently clear and obvious
Lengee wrote:Tories set up a BREXIT referendum to sort out splits in their party.
They get an OUT VOTE against what their leaders wanted.
The Prime Minister and key members of his government resign.
A messy leadership battle results in May becoming leader.
They continue to in fight for a couple of years and snipe behind her back..Along the way various members of the Cabinet leaving. Like rats leaving a sinking ship! Many concerned with trying to become leader more than uninterested of the country.
Now the second Credit Secretary resigns on the very day the OUT deal is being presented. We will have right wing dangerous Tories sniffing a chance of leadership.
What an utter shambolic mess.
Bananas wrote:Stupid Welsh voters voting for English political parties and stupid so called 'Brexit' Wales needs to be independent as part of a strong Europe, not part of the stupid English system and it's sponging so called 'royals'
Roll on Independence for our great country Wales. Its not if, it's when
T1JMO wrote:
The question isn't "are we leaving the EU?"... because we are - that is set in stone.
There is however 2 options, take Theresa May's deal and pay the huge divorce bill or walk away and pay nothing.
I know which I'd choose...
Hopski wrote:I voted leave but politicians have made a complete mess of it and I would welcome a second vote now.
Also I'm so disappointed with the calibre of MP's on both sides of the house that when we leave they would be incapable of leading us forward into the big wide world. I'm not afraid of an initial downturn and hardship before we become a trading powerhouse again but look who we could have leading us. May. Boris, Mogg, Corbyn, Abbott. Enough said.
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Hopski wrote:I voted leave but politicians have made a complete mess of it and I would welcome a second vote now.
Also I'm so disappointed with the calibre of MP's on both sides of the house that when we leave they would be incapable of leading us forward into the big wide world. I'm not afraid of an initial downturn and hardship before we become a trading powerhouse again but look who we could have leading us. May. Boris, Mogg, Corbyn, Abbott. Enough said.
And that is exactly the trap the EU planted the moment the UK voted for something they didn't want. What this country needs now is some backbone to stand up to the EU.
A no deal will be disruptive but will pass within a few months. That short pain is worth it to rid ourselves of the undemocratic dictatorial institution which calls itself the European Union,
Bananas wrote:Stupid Welsh voters voting for English political parties and stupid so called 'Brexit' Wales needs to be independent as part of a strong Europe, not part of the stupid English system and it's sponging so called 'royals'
Roll on Independence for our great country Wales. Its not if, it's when
rumpo kid wrote:If anyone wants to know what an independent Wales would look like, go to Albania. We are bankrolled by England to a hefty degree, and would quickly become a basket case without that money.
captbirdseye wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Hopski wrote:I voted leave but politicians have made a complete mess of it and I would welcome a second vote now.
Also I'm so disappointed with the calibre of MP's on both sides of the house that when we leave they would be incapable of leading us forward into the big wide world. I'm not afraid of an initial downturn and hardship before we become a trading powerhouse again but look who we could have leading us. May. Boris, Mogg, Corbyn, Abbott. Enough said.
And that is exactly the trap the EU planted the moment the UK voted for something they didn't want. What this country needs now is some backbone to stand up to the EU.
A no deal will be disruptive but will pass within a few months. That short pain is worth it to rid ourselves of the undemocratic dictatorial institution which calls itself the European Union,
You do realise the consequences of a no deal? Transferring us to WTO rules with 40% tariff on exports, disruption in imports food and medicines. This wouldn't just pass in a few months and a lot of business sectors would have to end being subsidised by UK government to avoid them going under. Take Fishing, you whack a 40% tariff on that sector and it would probably die in few weeks without government intervention because the majority of fish is exported.This is the same for sheep farming which again would crash within days of a no deal with government help. Sometimes I wonder if people understand the real consequences of a no deal.
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Hopski wrote:I voted leave but politicians have made a complete mess of it and I would welcome a second vote now.
Also I'm so disappointed with the calibre of MP's on both sides of the house that when we leave they would be incapable of leading us forward into the big wide world. I'm not afraid of an initial downturn and hardship before we become a trading powerhouse again but look who we could have leading us. May. Boris, Mogg, Corbyn, Abbott. Enough said.
And that is exactly the trap the EU planted the moment the UK voted for something they didn't want. What this country needs now is some backbone to stand up to the EU.
A no deal will be disruptive but will pass within a few months. That short pain is worth it to rid ourselves of the undemocratic dictatorial institution which calls itself the European Union,
dogfound wrote:moonboots wrote:rumpo kid wrote:Yes, gross impertinence to want to be in charge of your own destiny.
Once we’ve left the eu, we’ll scrap the senedd. Right load of gobbledygog...
I'd rather scrap Westminster. A right load of totally incompetent idiots....as we are now seeing.
Westminster aint great...but seriously what on earth is the WA about...there was no ground swell of demand for it..74% did not vote for it. and since its been there its just been an expensive mistake nobody cares about..
glas wrote:captbirdseye wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Hopski wrote:I voted leave but politicians have made a complete mess of it and I would welcome a second vote now.
Also I'm so disappointed with the calibre of MP's on both sides of the house that when we leave they would be incapable of leading us forward into the big wide world. I'm not afraid of an initial downturn and hardship before we become a trading powerhouse again but look who we could have leading us. May. Boris, Mogg, Corbyn, Abbott. Enough said.
And that is exactly the trap the EU planted the moment the UK voted for something they didn't want. What this country needs now is some backbone to stand up to the EU.
A no deal will be disruptive but will pass within a few months. That short pain is worth it to rid ourselves of the undemocratic dictatorial institution which calls itself the European Union,
You do realise the consequences of a no deal? Transferring us to WTO rules with 40% tariff on exports, disruption in imports food and medicines. This wouldn't just pass in a few months and a lot of business sectors would have to end being subsidised by UK government to avoid them going under. Take Fishing, you whack a 40% tariff on that sector and it would probably die in few weeks without government intervention because the majority of fish is exported.This is the same for sheep farming which again would crash within days of a no deal with government help. Sometimes I wonder if people understand the real consequences of a no deal.
Spoken like a true civil servant. No clue how business, trade or deals are accomplished in the real world, outside of the heavily subsidised and protected public service institutes.
rumpo kid wrote:you’ll also know that tariffs work both ways...being in the Civil Service.
Cardiff dyskinesia wrote:noisycat wrote:Why do we have to pay £39 billion to leave? For once I agree with Trump, tell them to f..k off or even sue THEM.
We are legally obliged to due to a financial commitment to collaborative projects.
captbirdseye wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Hopski wrote:I voted leave but politicians have made a complete mess of it and I would welcome a second vote now.
Also I'm so disappointed with the calibre of MP's on both sides of the house that when we leave they would be incapable of leading us forward into the big wide world. I'm not afraid of an initial downturn and hardship before we become a trading powerhouse again but look who we could have leading us. May. Boris, Mogg, Corbyn, Abbott. Enough said.
And that is exactly the trap the EU planted the moment the UK voted for something they didn't want. What this country needs now is some backbone to stand up to the EU.
A no deal will be disruptive but will pass within a few months. That short pain is worth it to rid ourselves of the undemocratic dictatorial institution which calls itself the European Union,
You do realise the consequences of a no deal? Transferring us to WTO rules with 40% tariff on exports, disruption in imports food and medicines. This wouldn't just pass in a few months and a lot of business sectors would have to end being subsidised by UK government to avoid them going under. Take Fishing, you whack a 40% tariff on that sector and it would probably die in few weeks without government intervention because the majority of fish is exported.This is the same for sheep farming which again would crash within days of a no deal with government help. Sometimes I wonder if people understand the real consequences of a no deal.
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