O/T Brexit & Theresa May

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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Jock » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:01 pm

rumpo kid wrote:you’ll also know that tariffs work both ways...being in the Civil Service.

Judging by the absurd 40% WTO Tariff he claims, he doesn’t know his public sector @rse from his elbow.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby captbirdseye » Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:42 pm

Intelligent reply. Lamb and Fish are subject to 40% tariffs under WTO rules.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby northernbluebird » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:04 pm

as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.

may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.

thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure :lol:
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Jock » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:37 pm

northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.

may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.

thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure :lol:

With the leverage we have she shave secured a much better deal. The deal on the table is not Brexit.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby northernbluebird » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:46 pm

Jock wrote:
northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.

may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.

thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure :lol:

With the leverage we have she shave secured a much better deal. The deal on the table is not Brexit.


on paper we have leverage, but in practice we don't.

the reason is the EU will always prioritise keeping together and expanding the union (and it's ridiculous 4 freedoms) over pragmatic economics. hence the euro, eastern european expansion etc.

and hence why david cameron was humiliated when he failed to get any concessions. yes it led to brexit, but this was an acceptable price given that offering a special deal could have caused others to leave.

logically, the only solution was no deal, properly leave the EU and make this clear that this would happen from the start of these ridiculously embarrassing and drawn out 'negotiations'. the EU do not negotiate, we learnt that from david cameron's concessions fiasco.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby rumpo kid » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:48 pm

captbirdseye wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:you’ll also know that tariffs work both ways...being in the Civil Service.


So let's just tariff everyone else then. Its worked well in the US.


Not surprised at crass answers like that from a Civil Servant. They long forgot who they work for, and brains no longer qualify.

The Circumlocution Office indeed.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby captbirdseye » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:00 pm

Yep, we clean up the mess that everyone else leaves behind.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Jock » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:28 pm

northernbluebird wrote:
Jock wrote:
northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.

may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.

thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure :lol:

With the leverage we have she shave secured a much better deal. The deal on the table is not Brexit.


on paper we have leverage, but in practice we don't.

the reason is the EU will always prioritise keeping together and expanding the union (and it's ridiculous 4 freedoms) over pragmatic economics. hence the euro, eastern european expansion etc.

and hence why david cameron was humiliated when he failed to get any concessions. yes it led to brexit, but this was an acceptable price given that offering a special deal could have caused others to leave.

logically, the only solution was no deal, properly leave the EU and make this clear that this would happen from the start of these ridiculously embarrassing and drawn out 'negotiations'. the EU do not negotiate, we learnt that from david cameron's concessions fiasco.

It’s a good point but I think pressure from business would have been colossal and concentrated politicians minds. I said right from the start we should just walk away.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Bananas » Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:43 pm

Jock wrote:
northernbluebird wrote:
Jock wrote:
northernbluebird wrote:as long as we have full control over our borders, and leave the EU, then that's a good thing. northern ireland is a sideshow distracting us from the important stuff - i couldn't care less.

may has been pushed around by the EU, as david cameron was, but read the news from the EU side and they say she's a very tough negotiator. the last thing this country needs is more chaos with may being pushed out.

thankfully i've had a couple of days off from the news - been great for my blood pressure :lol:

With the leverage we have she shave secured a much better deal. The deal on the table is not Brexit.


on paper we have leverage, but in practice we don't.

the reason is the EU will always prioritise keeping together and expanding the union (and it's ridiculous 4 freedoms) over pragmatic economics. hence the euro, eastern european expansion etc.

and hence why david cameron was humiliated when he failed to get any concessions. yes it led to brexit, but this was an acceptable price given that offering a special deal could have caused others to leave.

logically, the only solution was no deal, properly leave the EU and make this clear that this would happen from the start of these ridiculously embarrassing and drawn out 'negotiations'. the EU do not negotiate, we learnt that from david cameron's concessions fiasco.

It’s a good point but I think pressure from business would have been colossal and concentrated politicians minds. I said right from the start we should just walk away.

From a thick jock :laughing6:
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby BlueMoon1974 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:22 pm

Should never have been a vote. People not educated enough on the whole subject. Some of the pub and locker room talk is laughable.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Dave67 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:55 pm

That's the problem with populism.

UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.

Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"

People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.

Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby City Slicker » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:30 am

Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.

UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.

Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"

People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.

Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.


Well done Dave for injecting some realism. Great to have you back :thumbup:
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby dogfound » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:32 am

Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.

UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.

Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"

People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.

Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.



people were all too happy......people conclude.....what are you if not a person?
some people might buy the B/S pedalled by both sides but I think most are capable of sifting through and making up their own minds
and doubt very much your average joe/mary having concluded ALL promises are lies would then choose the biggest lie..
really well thought out ... :roll: :roll:

btw your obsession with bringing Trump up in threads he has no business being in gives you away.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:27 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:Surely most people now see that the referendum was premature and that a 5 year delay while we opened discussions with the EU and did extensive research would have been better. Then at least we could have gone to the polls with a better understanding of what Brexit would look like with short, medium and long term pros and cons laid out as well as they could have been.

Cameron was naive and stupid, the leave campaign was corrupt and misled the people with lies and mistruths and the remain campaign was absolutely useless! The Tories were already damaging this country through austerity measures that will cost us all more money in the long run as we pick up the pieces of cutting investment into preventative health and social care and have shown no leadership, while the Labour party leadership is an absolute disgrace and cannot be trusted.

All in all a complete shambles.

As a nation we will recover but in all honesty we need to prepare for quite a long time of uncertainty.


This narrative that those who voted leave didn't understand the issues does my head in. I knew exactly what I was voting for and the ramifications. What I didn't know was the sheer incompetence of the political class to carry out the referendum result.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:32 am

Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.

UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.

Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"

People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.

Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.


A bit like those who peddle the Trump card as an easy answer :roll: There are terrible problems with the EU the biggest one being the EU Commission (the power base) is appointed and not elected so is not accountable to the electorate. Even Trump has to seek re-election :D
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby SirJimmySchoular » Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:18 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:Surely most people now see that the referendum was premature and that a 5 year delay while we opened discussions with the EU and did extensive research would have been better. Then at least we could have gone to the polls with a better understanding of what Brexit would look like with short, medium and long term pros and cons laid out as well as they could have been.

Cameron was naive and stupid, the leave campaign was corrupt and misled the people with lies and mistruths and the remain campaign was absolutely useless! The Tories were already damaging this country through austerity measures that will cost us all more money in the long run as we pick up the pieces of cutting investment into preventative health and social care and have shown no leadership, while the Labour party leadership is an absolute disgrace and cannot be trusted.

All in all a complete shambles.

As a nation we will recover but in all honesty we need to prepare for quite a long time of uncertainty.


This narrative that those who voted leave didn't understand the issues does my head in. I knew exactly what I was voting for and the ramifications. What I didn't know was the sheer incompetence of the political class to carry out the referendum result.



Don't think it's incompetence is it ? That's a very charitable assessment on your part I should say. I'd say that it was more a case of saboutage and negative spin. The political class as a whole are doing anything possible to put off the fateful day when they are no longer connected to the globalist gravy train and will have to compete for their jobs and positions on merit , which they won't be able to do of course.
At the risk of enraging the professional underdogs amongst us, I know exactly how clever or otherwise these politicians are, and they are certainly no more capable of understanding the issues than anyone else ,( less so actually, since they're bound to be influenced by the fact that the EU is very good for them personally).
In short, I absolutely agree that it's annoying to be told that you didn't understand what you were voting for by a bunch of politicians and journalists with an average I.Q of around room temperature.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby captbirdseye » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:48 pm

It works both ways though. Have a look at the Brexit Conservative back benchers business interests and you'll see why they want out of the EU and its nothing to do with the countries best interests.

There are a lot of genuinely decent politicians out there but sadly you don't hear about them because they are just getting on with their job.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Dave67 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:33 pm

dogfound wrote:btw your obsession with bringing Trump up in threads he has no business being in gives you away.


I have been looking back through my posts for items about Trump as I do not remember bringing up Trump at all in a thread.

Apologies for using facts to challenge your narrative. I am aware that it is a form of argument with which you are not familiar.

A brief review of my posts would seem to show that the main obsession I appear to have is in repeating dogfound is not very bright. I will try to avoid that on this thread.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Dave67 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:39 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:A bit like those who peddle the Trump card as an easy answer :roll: There are terrible problems with the EU the biggest one being the EU Commission (the power base) is appointed and not elected so is not accountable to the electorate. Even Trump has to seek re-election :D


I really have no idea what your point is here. Was there one?
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Dave67 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:59 pm

dogfound wrote:people were all too happy......people conclude.....what are you if not a person?


Okay, I see words here and they appear to be in a sentence format, they are just not coherant.

dogfound wrote:some people might buy the B/S pedalled by both sides but I think most are capable of sifting through and making up their own minds


Really? You think that most people have understood the Brexit negotiations and in 2016 when they voted they understood that two and a half years later the only deal in town on transitional arrangements was dead in the water and that we wouldn't have even started talking about the future deal yet?

or perhaps they heard that Brexit would be the easiest Free Trade Agreement in History

dogfound wrote:and doubt very much your average joe/mary having concluded ALL promises are lies would then choose the biggest lie..really well thought out ... :roll: :roll:


well, here is the thing about muddying the water.....it means that it makes it very difficult to distinguish things in the water. please stop me if I am going to fast for you.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Dave67 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:16 pm

dogfound wrote:some people might buy the B/S pedalled by both sides


People knew what Remain meant - after all we have been in the EU for 40 years.

the lies were about what Brexit meant.....
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby northernbluebird » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:05 pm

Dave67 wrote:That's the problem with populism.

UKIP/Tabloids pedaled easy answers to complex questions and people were all too happy to believe them.

Muddy the water with "Brussels Bureaucrats" "Gravy Train" "EU legislation on Bananas" "Migrants are killing our citizens, raping our children and taking our Jobs" "EU super state" "EU Army"and then blame the opposition for "Project Fear"

People conclude that all politicians lie and pick the one that promises the most.

Not very complicated but effective - take a look at Trump.


interesting how you bring up 'project fear'.

shortly before the vote, george osborne said that the following would happen immediately if britain voted to leave the EU.

house prices down by between 10-18%
unemployment up by between 520,000 and 820,000
gdp down by between 3.6% and 6%
average real wages down by between 2.8% and 4%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36355564

if that isn't project fear, i don't know what is.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby BlueMoon1974 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:59 pm

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/t ... ssion=true


A lot of people are muddying the message. Too many agendas at play.
People need to wake up out the zombie state.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Dave67 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:14 pm

northernbluebird wrote:interesting how you bring up 'project fear'.

shortly before the vote, george osborne said that the following would happen immediately if britain voted to leave the EU.

house prices down by between 10-18%
unemployment up by between 520,000 and 820,000
gdp down by between 3.6% and 6%
average real wages down by between 2.8% and 4%

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36355564

if that isn't project fear, i don't know what is.


If you listen to the clip and read past the headline he is reporting on a Treasury forecast after 2 years whereby there is either
1. There is a bilateral Trade agreement
2. We leave under WTO

as the commentary below it says...

"It might be wrong, or the outcomes might be substantially different once real events take hold - as is true of all forecasts - but it is very much worth the paper it is written on"

I am assuming that these figures are relative to a Remain Vote.

I suspect they probably got GDP, Wages and Exchange rates right and they got House Prices and jobs wrong.

They also were projecting that it would be done and dusted 6 months ago.

It is an economic forecast predicting market/business reaction after a unprecedented landmark event. Yes it is to be feared. That is why I voted to remain.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby AfricanBluebird » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:19 pm

A no deal brexit...

▪️We turn all the EU external tariffs against ourselves
▪️Multiplying the beuraucracy and costs at our island's main food port
▪️Removing the rights of 1.4 million emigrant Brits to live in their homes
▪️Ending the Good Friday Agreement
▪️Massively increasing the average export distances for UK businesses.
▪️Leaving EURATOM, which allows us to quickly get the radioactive materials necessary for treating CANCER.
▪️Ending trade deals which make up over 60% of our international trade.

The PMs deal resolves many of these but keeps us partially in and subject to the EU without a vote... plus we have to pay.


All in all “clusterfuck” seems like the appropriate word
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Dave67 » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:25 pm

I have just dug up your forecast of Neil Etheridge from October 2017.....

northernbluebird from October 2017 on Neil Etheridge wrote:it's certainly a strange situation as he doesnt inspire confidence and always looks to have an error in him, but you check his record and its the best in the league!

he is not helped by playing alongside players like bamba who play him into trouble, and who is even more error prone by the way, IMO.


Seems forecasts are not as easy as you would have us believe.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby northernbluebird » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:33 pm

Dave67 wrote:I have just dug up your forecast of Neil Etheridge from October 2017.....

northernbluebird from October 2017 on Neil Etheridge wrote:it's certainly a strange situation as he doesnt inspire confidence and always looks to have an error in him, but you check his record and its the best in the league!

he is not helped by playing alongside players like bamba who play him into trouble, and who is even more error prone by the way, IMO.


Seems forecasts are not as easy as you would have us believe.


trawling through page after page of my posts and that's the worst you can find? i'm flattered. i also think you need to get some hobbies / a job.
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:49 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:A no deal brexit...

▪️We turn all the EU external tariffs against ourselves
▪️Multiplying the beuraucracy and costs at our island's main food port
▪️Removing the rights of 1.4 million emigrant Brits to live in their homes
▪️Ending the Good Friday Agreement
▪️Massively increasing the average export distances for UK businesses.
▪️Leaving EURATOM, which allows us to quickly get the radioactive materials necessary for treating CANCER.
▪️Ending trade deals which make up over 60% of our international trade.

The PMs deal resolves many of these but keeps us partially in and subject to the EU without a vote... plus we have to pay.


All in all “clusterfuck” seems like the appropriate word


No deal also means:

*Taking control of our laws (& ditching the undemocratic and unelected European Commission)
*Taking control of our money (the ending of the £11billion net surplus we send to the EU every year)
*Taking control of our immigration policy
*Ability to make new trade deals with the faster economic growing parts of the world
*Ability to import cheaper food stuffs from non-EU countries
*Keeping the integrity of the UK in place

I'm pretty sure the radioactive material needed for Cancer treatment can be sourced elsewhere in the world :roll: If ever there was a project fear hysterical claim then claiming we couldn't treat Cancer patients because of BREXIT has to be as pathetic as it gets :roll:
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:51 am

northernbluebird wrote:
Dave67 wrote:I have just dug up your forecast of Neil Etheridge from October 2017.....

northernbluebird from October 2017 on Neil Etheridge wrote:it's certainly a strange situation as he doesnt inspire confidence and always looks to have an error in him, but you check his record and its the best in the league!

he is not helped by playing alongside players like bamba who play him into trouble, and who is even more error prone by the way, IMO.


Seems forecasts are not as easy as you would have us believe.


trawling through page after page of my posts and that's the worst you can find? i'm flattered. i also think you need to get some hobbies / a job.


And maybe you need a crystal ball ;)
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Re: O/T Brexit & Theresa May

Postby Jock » Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:09 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:A no deal brexit...

▪️We turn all the EU external tariffs against ourselves
▪️Multiplying the beuraucracy and costs at our island's main food port
▪️Removing the rights of 1.4 million emigrant Brits to live in their homes
▪️Ending the Good Friday Agreement
▪️Massively increasing the average export distances for UK businesses.
▪️Leaving EURATOM, which allows us to quickly get the radioactive materials necessary for treating CANCER.
▪️Ending trade deals which make up over 60% of our international trade.

The PMs deal resolves many of these but keeps us partially in and subject to the EU without a vote... plus we have to pay.


All in all “clusterfuck” seems like the appropriate word

Only 44% of our exports went to the EU and when you factor in some of that transited through EU Ports like Rotterdam heading to non EU countries our trade with the EU is nearer 35%.
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