CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby Sven » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:27 pm

2blue2handle wrote:
Sven wrote:I heard the same three questions being asked on Radio 5 Live's '606' programme with Jason Mohammad and a certain John Hartson

I think Jason Mohammad was (as you stated before, so assume you got the OP questions from there ;) ) trying to stay as positive as he could, but John Hartson was a little more forthright with his views...

Certainly not the anti-Cardiff rhetoric some would assume

Far from it and in response to one Cardiff caller saying "most (whatever that means) Cardiff supporters were pretty resigned to relegation", Hartson simply raised the questions of "Why wouldn't you want to try to stay in the Premier League once you got there?"

He also raised the question "Is it time to consider the future of Neil Warnock?"

He added that "Warnock stated last season he wasn't sure about the Premier League" and "maybe his 'comfort zone' is the Championship"

It's not something I agree with, as he's galvanised the club and brought us this far against high odds but I do understand why some would ask the question after a tough start to the season

Modern football is very much in the 'here and now' and I just hope a win next week changes the mood! :ayatollah:


For me Tan had two options at the start of the season, give Warnock a small budget and sees how it goes or sack Warnock and invest heavily. Both risky.


Luke, I agree :thumbright:

Vincent Tan tried the other way last time and look where it got him!

Neither is an 'easy' option, which is why I hope we can gather the points to keep the vultures off soon :ayatollah:
"If you think what I say is 'offensive' to you, you should hear what I keep to myself...!"
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby Steve Zodiak » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:32 pm

City Slicker wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Sven wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
2blue2handle wrote:The squad does look weak and I know we had a small budget but I'm not sure we spent it to wisely. The next week week will show what direction we are heading in.


I suppose our total budget was just about enough to buy one half decent player with true PL quality. Still, most fans accepted a return to blue would mean no more money from Mr Tan. I seem to recall a lot of fans say they would prefer to watch us play in Div 3 in blue rather than the PL in red. We got what we asked for and now have to hope for the best.


Steve, isn't the "no money in blue" rhetoric a little old hat now? :?

Not having a go at you here; just observing that Vincent Tan has moved this club on massively regardless of shirt colour :thumbright:


He certainly has. He has only invested a very small percentage of the reported riches the club gets from being a top flight club, and so appears to be keeping his word. I have no problem with what he is doing. I think he is running the club the way a business should be run, and hopefully one day we will be debt free and operating within our means. Who would have thought that day would ever come when the Inland Revenue were taking us to court.


Steve, I agree with you that Tan is keeping his word and it always was "no red no money". I genuinely have respect for the man for keeping his word. I for one would much prefer lower league football in blue than anything in any other colour.

I also have some sympathy for your concern about finances running riot and the possible doom that could entail. None of us want to go back to those days. However, and with no desire to criticize Tan, my argument is that he is witholding investment not for altruistic reasons but simply because he is trying to package up the club to achieve the best price he can on sale. I contend he has no intention of developing the club any further. That might have a knock on advantage of not overstretching our finances but, on the other hand, every genuine fan wants to see their club succeed.

I believe that we need new owners to achieve that and, if handled correctly, that doesn't necessarily mean putting the club in financial jeapurdy. The likes of Bournemouth, Burnley, Brighton, Leicester and Watford have demonstrated this.


Can't argue with any of that.
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby Pulisnewport » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:54 pm

From the start this season, was to stay up and it always has boiled down to beating the teams around us to achieve that.

If we stay up then next season we will have to invest more in the playing side. It’s a slow process but let’s enjoy it and wait until April.
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby streamfeeder » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:15 pm

Maybe mourinho as he has an ability to get the best out of what he has, pep or klopp would have us relegated by xmas, unless tan gave them 200mill

Give Warnock his contract, he deserves it and would give us our best chance of promotion next season.

More than happy to go back to the championship, never really thought much of the premier league

Good questions btw and interesting replys
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Re: Controversial questions

Postby phildavies » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:11 pm

Dahboy wrote:
phildavies wrote:6 games in 3 of which were against top 6 clubs calm down lads we will be fine.

I get the calm down thing, but can you explain your claim we will be fine. Are you suggesting we will stay up? give me the three teams that will finish below us because I'm struggling to do that even at this early stage in the season.



IMO the teams to be relegated will be

Huddersfield
Fulham
Brighton
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby bluesince62 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:48 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:
2blue2handle wrote:The squad does look weak and I know we had a small budget but I'm not sure we spent it to wisely. The next week week will show what direction we are heading in.


I suppose our total budget was just about enough to buy one half decent player with true PL quality. Still, most fans accepted a return to blue would mean no more money from Mr Tan. I seem to recall a lot of fans say they would prefer to watch us play in Div 3 in blue rather than the PL in red. We got what we asked for and now have to hope for the best.

When you say no more money,who's money (as small as it may be)got spent this season? :?:
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby dogfound » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:55 am

Sven wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
2blue2handle wrote:The squad does look weak and I know we had a small budget but I'm not sure we spent it to wisely. The next week week will show what direction we are heading in.


I suppose our total budget was just about enough to buy one half decent player with true PL quality. Still, most fans accepted a return to blue would mean no more money from Mr Tan. I seem to recall a lot of fans say they would prefer to watch us play in Div 3 in blue rather than the PL in red. We got what we asked for and now have to hope for the best.


Steve, isn't the "no money in blue" rhetoric a little old hat now? :?

Not having a go at you here; just observing that Vincent Tan has moved this club on massively regardless of shirt colour :thumbright:



agree but some just don't want to see it...
spouting the blue = no money bollox despite all the facts showing otherwise not to mention VT never uttering those words in the first place
is either agenda based or unbelievably stupid.
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Re: Controversial questions

Postby Igovernor » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:14 am

stentona wrote:
Aramore wrote:Today's not the day for this. I don't think anyone seriously exected anything other than a heavy loss.

Next week against Burnley is when we have to perform.


True in some ways but with Malky's team we had a few good results against 'top' teams. Also, I thought Warnock's selection today made us more vulnerable ... Peltier, Cunningham ... no Bennett or Bamba ... Hmmm


Bennet and Bamba been ill all the week, have not trained, on the bench as an emergency for maybe 20/30 minutes
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Re: Controversial questions

Postby ThomasC » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:15 am

phildavies wrote:
Dahboy wrote:
phildavies wrote:6 games in 3 of which were against top 6 clubs calm down lads we will be fine.

I get the calm down thing, but can you explain your claim we will be fine. Are you suggesting we will stay up? give me the three teams that will finish below us because I'm struggling to do that even at this early stage in the season.



IMO the teams to be relegated will be

Huddersfield
Fulham
Brighton


quite bold predicting Fulham. I thought they've done well so far
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Re: Controversial questions

Postby phildavies » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:29 am

ThomasC wrote:
phildavies wrote:
Dahboy wrote:
phildavies wrote:6 games in 3 of which were against top 6 clubs calm down lads we will be fine.

I get the calm down thing, but can you explain your claim we will be fine. Are you suggesting we will stay up? give me the three teams that will finish below us because I'm struggling to do that even at this early stage in the season.



IMO the teams to be relegated will be

Huddersfield
Fulham
Brighton


quite bold predicting Fulham. I thought they've done well so far


They have done okay but are massively overrated by so many have possibly the worst defence in the league and if Mitrovic gets injured or banned(which he will at some point) they have no one anywhere near good enough to replace him. On another note the three that came up last year all seem to be suffering from second season syndrome plus Southampton look pretty weak a Palarse are awful without Zaha.

So all in all plenty of teams we can compete with.
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Re: Controversial questions

Postby City Slicker » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:32 am

phildavies wrote:
ThomasC wrote:
phildavies wrote:
Dahboy wrote:
phildavies wrote:6 games in 3 of which were against top 6 clubs calm down lads we will be fine.

I get the calm down thing, but can you explain your claim we will be fine. Are you suggesting we will stay up? give me the three teams that will finish below us because I'm struggling to do that even at this early stage in the season.



IMO the teams to be relegated will be

Huddersfield
Fulham
Brighton


quite bold predicting Fulham. I thought they've done well so far


They have done okay but are massively overrated by so many have possibly the worst defence in the league and if Mitrovic gets injured or banned(which he will at some point) they have no one anywhere near good enough to replace him. On another note the three that came up last year all seem to be suffering from second season syndrome plus Southampton look pretty weak a Palarse are awful without Zaha.

So all in all plenty of teams we can compete with.


Well I guess many of us will agree on Udders Feel'd
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby smakerzthebluebird » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:49 am

City Slicker wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Sven wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
2blue2handle wrote:The squad does look weak and I know we had a small budget but I'm not sure we spent it to wisely. The next week week will show what direction we are heading in.


I suppose our total budget was just about enough to buy one half decent player with true PL quality. Still, most fans accepted a return to blue would mean no more money from Mr Tan. I seem to recall a lot of fans say they would prefer to watch us play in Div 3 in blue rather than the PL in red. We got what we asked for and now have to hope for the best.


Steve, isn't the "no money in blue" rhetoric a little old hat now? :?

Not having a go at you here; just observing that Vincent Tan has moved this club on massively regardless of shirt colour :thumbright:


He certainly has. He has only invested a very small percentage of the reported riches the club gets from being a top flight club, and so appears to be keeping his word. I have no problem with what he is doing. I think he is running the club the way a business should be run, and hopefully one day we will be debt free and operating within our means. Who would have thought that day would ever come when the Inland Revenue were taking us to court.


Steve, I agree with you that Tan is keeping his word and it always was "no red no money". I genuinely have respect for the man for keeping his word. I for one would much prefer lower league football in blue than anything in any other colour.

I also have some sympathy for your concern about finances running riot and the possible doom that could entail. None of us want to go back to those days. However, and with no desire to criticize Tan, my argument is that he is witholding investment not for altruistic reasons but simply because he is trying to package up the club to achieve the best price he can on sale. I contend he has no intention of developing the club any further. That might have a knock on advantage of not overstretching our finances but, on the other hand, every genuine fan wants to see their club succeed.

I believe that we need new owners to achieve that and, if handled correctly, that doesn't necessarily mean putting the club in financial jeapurdy. The likes of Bournemouth, Burnley, Brighton, Leicester and Watford have demonstrated this.


Are you people all mental? Training ground development has just been approved and plenty of other investments been made in the past, despite a return to blue

Premier league is worth £100m+ in total

Factor in the increased wages, increased staff costs and promotion bonuses plus player clauses (like Madine) and the £25m-ish we spent and the total gross wage bill for the season and you’ll find that £100m ain’t far off gone !

I think the club was also still running at a loss which will get soaked up this season

Fact is £100m is relative peanuts in this division now! :ayatollah:

Also tan has never taken a penny from this club and will never get all his money back

Simple fact is he’s just not willing to put more in and that’s fair enough 180m is a lot of money end of the day
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby Steve Zodiak » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:15 pm

smakerzthebluebird wrote:
City Slicker wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
Sven wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:
2blue2handle wrote:The squad does look weak and I know we had a small budget but I'm not sure we spent it to wisely. The next week week will show what direction we are heading in.


I suppose our total budget was just about enough to buy one half decent player with true PL quality. Still, most fans accepted a return to blue would mean no more money from Mr Tan. I seem to recall a lot of fans say they would prefer to watch us play in Div 3 in blue rather than the PL in red. We got what we asked for and now have to hope for the best.


Steve, isn't the "no money in blue" rhetoric a little old hat now? :?

Not having a go at you here; just observing that Vincent Tan has moved this club on massively regardless of shirt colour :thumbright:


He certainly has. He has only invested a very small percentage of the reported riches the club gets from being a top flight club, and so appears to be keeping his word. I have no problem with what he is doing. I think he is running the club the way a business should be run, and hopefully one day we will be debt free and operating within our means. Who would have thought that day would ever come when the Inland Revenue were taking us to court.


Steve, I agree with you that Tan is keeping his word and it always was "no red no money". I genuinely have respect for the man for keeping his word. I for one would much prefer lower league football in blue than anything in any other colour.

I also have some sympathy for your concern about finances running riot and the possible doom that could entail. None of us want to go back to those days. However, and with no desire to criticize Tan, my argument is that he is witholding investment not for altruistic reasons but simply because he is trying to package up the club to achieve the best price he can on sale. I contend he has no intention of developing the club any further. That might have a knock on advantage of not overstretching our finances but, on the other hand, every genuine fan wants to see their club succeed.

I believe that we need new owners to achieve that and, if handled correctly, that doesn't necessarily mean putting the club in financial jeapurdy. The likes of Bournemouth, Burnley, Brighton, Leicester and Watford have demonstrated this.


Are you people all mental? Training ground development has just been approved and plenty of other investments been made in the past, despite a return to blue

Premier league is worth £100m+ in total

Factor in the increased wages, increased staff costs and promotion bonuses plus player clauses (like Madine) and the £25m-ish we spent and the total gross wage bill for the season and you’ll find that £100m ain’t far off gone !

I think the club was also still running at a loss which will get soaked up this season

Fact is £100m is relative peanuts in this division now! :ayatollah:

Also tan has never taken a penny from this club and will never get all his money back

Simple fact is he’s just not willing to put more in and that’s fair enough 180m is a lot of money end of the day


You are right, plenty of investment has been made in the past. Tan himself has said that well over £100m of his money was invested in return for us playing in red. This included earmarking funds of £10m for the new training ground, which he told us about in his speech at the Uni in Treforest over 5 years ago. The fact it is only now coming about is down to planning permission rather than new money, although I imagine the cost will have gone up since he first announced the plan.

I am not knocking him for the lack of spending this season. I knew there would be little to spend because Tan had made that perfectly clear and Warnock had confirmed it. Tan wants the club to be debt free and to be run within it's means, and Warnock had said he would have the smallest budget in the PL.

Nothing clever about what I am saying here, just repeating what Tan has previously said and is available to everyone via the internet.
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Re: Controversial questions

Postby wez1927 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:22 pm

stentona wrote:
Aramore wrote:Today's not the day for this. I don't think anyone seriously exected anything other than a heavy loss.

Next week against Burnley is when we have to perform.


True in some ways but with Malky's team we had a few good results against 'top' teams. Also, I thought Warnock's selection today made us more vulnerable ... Peltier, Cunningham ... no Bennett or Bamba ... Hmmm

They were ill this week
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby wez1927 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:24 pm

Pulisnewport wrote:From the start this season, was to stay up and it always has boiled down to beating the teams around us to achieve that.

If we stay up then next season we will have to invest more in the playing side. It’s a slow process but let’s enjoy it and wait until April.

Agree we got to win our mini league of teams around us
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Re: CONTROVERSIAL QUESTIONS, BUT...

Postby northernbluebird » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:51 pm

there are a few players in our first team who are out of their depth against the top 8 or so teams in this league. i would include peltier, ward, bamba, hoilett, reid in that. against bournemouth we were outclassed.

i don't think we can do better than warnock, and it's not a discussion i would entertain as he deserves the full season without having to worry about speculation, after all he's done for the club.
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