GOLDEN GENERATION ???

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GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby MoodyBluebird » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:04 am

Before this fantastic World Cup is confined to the annals of history and our bout of England-bashing is put under lock and key for another couple of years, I have to get the following off my chest:

Why oh why is the England team of about 10 -15 years ago referred to as the golden generation ? Are we really saying that the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard etc can be compared favourably to the likes of Modric, Mbappe, De Bruyne, Hazard of today's teams or were they comparing them to previous England players ?

I can only assume that as the pundits lamented the fact that those "great" English players
should have but didn't win one of either the World Cup or the Euros, they were by definition putting them on the same level as the world's top players.

You would think that all so-called pundits would be able to grasp a very simple truth - when a good player is in a team that contains genuine superstars, it is much easier to play football at a higher level than if you are in a team of lesser mortals. That's England's problem in a nutshell and will only improve if by any chance they can unearth players of the genuine world class, such as Iniesta, Pirlo and dare I say it, Gareth Bale.
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GOLDEN GENERATION ???

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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby buckleys brewery » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:18 am

Each country have their own Golden Generation. It’s not meant as a comparison.
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:28 pm

MoodyBluebird wrote:Before this fantastic World Cup is confined to the annals of history and our bout of England-bashing is put under lock and key for another couple of years, I have to get the following off my chest:

Why oh why is the England team of about 10 -15 years ago referred to as the golden generation ? Are we really saying that the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard etc can be compared favourably to the likes of Modric, Mbappe, De Bruyne, Hazard of today's teams or were they comparing them to previous England players ?

I can only assume that as the pundits lamented the fact that those "great" English players
should have but didn't win one of either the World Cup or the Euros, they were by definition putting them on the same level as the world's top players.

You would think that all so-called pundits would be able to grasp a very simple truth - when a good player is in a team that contains genuine superstars, it is much easier to play football at a higher level than if you are in a team of lesser mortals. That's England's problem in a nutshell and will only improve if by any chance they can unearth players of the genuine world class, such as Iniesta, Pirlo and dare I say it, Gareth Bale.


By results they didn't really deliver reaching a string of QF and generally losing on penalties to Portugal. England had a decent set of players Gerrard for certain was World Class although I was never really convinced by Beckham. They also went nearly 20 years without a decent left-winger and had this so called Lampard/Gerrard problem.

But any half decent manager/coach would have resolved that problem and found a way of playing both of them in the same team along with Scoles, Rooney and the rest.

So England might of had a 'Golden Generation' of players, but what they didn't have was a Golden manager to get the best out of them.
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby dogfound » Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:55 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Before this fantastic World Cup is confined to the annals of history and our bout of England-bashing is put under lock and key for another couple of years, I have to get the following off my chest:

Why oh why is the England team of about 10 -15 years ago referred to as the golden generation ? Are we really saying that the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard etc can be compared favourably to the likes of Modric, Mbappe, De Bruyne, Hazard of today's teams or were they comparing them to previous England players ?

I can only assume that as the pundits lamented the fact that those "great" English players
should have but didn't win one of either the World Cup or the Euros, they were by definition putting them on the same level as the world's top players.

You would think that all so-called pundits would be able to grasp a very simple truth - when a good player is in a team that contains genuine superstars, it is much easier to play football at a higher level than if you are in a team of lesser mortals. That's England's problem in a nutshell and will only improve if by any chance they can unearth players of the genuine world class, such as Iniesta, Pirlo and dare I say it, Gareth Bale.


By results they didn't really deliver reaching a string of QF and generally losing on penalties to Portugal. England had a decent set of players Gerrard for certain was World Class although I was never really convinced by Beckham. They also went nearly 20 years without a decent left-winger and had this so called Lampard/Gerrard problem.

But any half decent manager/coach would have resolved that problem and found a way of playing both of them in the same team along with Scoles, Rooney and the rest.

So England might of had a 'Golden Generation' of players, but what they didn't have was a Golden manager to get the best out of them.



not so sure..Gerrard/Lampard didnt work for whatever reason under quite a few experienced managers..and both were too good to leave out..we have had this when whoever happened to be manager had to try to fit our 4 or 5 best players who all happened to be attack orientated into a side..proper hampered a few Wales managers from doing much tactically and the inbalance of over producing {comparitively } at one end while often being poor down the other cost us qualification a number of times..
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby Sven » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:43 pm

MoodyBluebird wrote:Before this fantastic World Cup is confined to the annals of history and our bout of England-bashing is put under lock and key for another couple of years, I have to get the following off my chest:

Why oh why is the England team of about 10 -15 years ago referred to as the golden generation ? Are we really saying that the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard etc can be compared favourably to the likes of Modric, Mbappe, De Bruyne, Hazard of today's teams or were they comparing them to previous England players ?

I can only assume that as the pundits lamented the fact that those "great" English players
should have but didn't win one of either the World Cup or the Euros, they were by definition putting them on the same level as the world's top players.

You would think that all so-called pundits would be able to grasp a very simple truth - when a good player is in a team that contains genuine superstars, it is much easier to play football at a higher level than if you are in a team of lesser mortals. That's England's problem in a nutshell and will only improve if by any chance they can unearth players of the genuine world class, such as Iniesta, Pirlo and dare I say it, Gareth Bale.



In 15 years time, THIS will be classed as the 'golden generation'! ;)

For people like me, the '66 World Cup winners followed by the Leeds United and Liverpool teams of the 70's were a 'golden generation'

It's all relative but (as with City this season) we should appreciate what we have today not yesterday! :ayatollah:
"If you think what I say is 'offensive' to you, you should hear what I keep to myself...!"
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:57 am

dogfound wrote:not so sure..Gerrard/Lampard didnt work for whatever reason under quite a few experienced managers..and both were too good to leave out..we have had this when whoever happened to be manager had to try to fit our 4 or 5 best players who all happened to be attack orientated into a side..proper hampered a few Wales managers from doing much tactically and the inbalance of over producing {comparitively } at one end while often being poor down the other cost us qualification a number of times..


I remember when Wales had a sought of similar problem with Rush Saunders Hughes and Giggs. Terry Yorath found away to play them all which required Mark Hughes playing in midfield. It is that kind of creative and imaginative thinking which England managers lacked when dealing with the 'golden generation' and the Lampard/Gerrard 'problem'

I remember hearing a foreign TV pundit saying any decent coach/manager wouldn't describe the Lampard/Gerrard situation as a 'problem' but as an 'opportunity'.
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:00 am

Sven wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Before this fantastic World Cup is confined to the annals of history and our bout of England-bashing is put under lock and key for another couple of years, I have to get the following off my chest:

Why oh why is the England team of about 10 -15 years ago referred to as the golden generation ? Are we really saying that the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Gerrard etc can be compared favourably to the likes of Modric, Mbappe, De Bruyne, Hazard of today's teams or were they comparing them to previous England players ?

I can only assume that as the pundits lamented the fact that those "great" English players
should have but didn't win one of either the World Cup or the Euros, they were by definition putting them on the same level as the world's top players.

You would think that all so-called pundits would be able to grasp a very simple truth - when a good player is in a team that contains genuine superstars, it is much easier to play football at a higher level than if you are in a team of lesser mortals. That's England's problem in a nutshell and will only improve if by any chance they can unearth players of the genuine world class, such as Iniesta, Pirlo and dare I say it, Gareth Bale.



In 15 years time, THIS will be classed as the 'golden generation'! ;)

For people like me, the '66 World Cup winners followed by the Leeds United and Liverpool teams of the 70's were a 'golden generation'

It's all relative but (as with City this season) we should appreciate what we have today not yesterday! :ayatollah:


I think you have established the criteria for a Golden Generation by pointing out the need for some silverware!
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby dogfound » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:not so sure..Gerrard/Lampard didnt work for whatever reason under quite a few experienced managers..and both were too good to leave out..we have had this when whoever happened to be manager had to try to fit our 4 or 5 best players who all happened to be attack orientated into a side..proper hampered a few Wales managers from doing much tactically and the inbalance of over producing {comparitively } at one end while often being poor down the other cost us qualification a number of times..


I remember when Wales had a sought of similar problem with Rush Saunders Hughes and Giggs. Terry Yorath found away to play them all which required Mark Hughes playing in midfield. It is that kind of creative and imaginative thinking which England managers lacked when dealing with the 'golden generation' and the Lampard/Gerrard 'problem'

I remember hearing a foreign TV pundit saying any decent coach/manager wouldn't describe the Lampard/Gerrard situation as a 'problem' but as an 'opportunity'.



it hampered yorath as it did the england managers.,..all that talent and we qualified for NOTHING..I Think whoever had been our manager would have done the same but creative and imaginative it certainly was not.
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:44 pm

dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:not so sure..Gerrard/Lampard didnt work for whatever reason under quite a few experienced managers..and both were too good to leave out..we have had this when whoever happened to be manager had to try to fit our 4 or 5 best players who all happened to be attack orientated into a side..proper hampered a few Wales managers from doing much tactically and the inbalance of over producing {comparitively } at one end while often being poor down the other cost us qualification a number of times..


I remember when Wales had a sought of similar problem with Rush Saunders Hughes and Giggs. Terry Yorath found away to play them all which required Mark Hughes playing in midfield. It is that kind of creative and imaginative thinking which England managers lacked when dealing with the 'golden generation' and the Lampard/Gerrard 'problem'

I remember hearing a foreign TV pundit saying any decent coach/manager wouldn't describe the Lampard/Gerrard situation as a 'problem' but as an 'opportunity'.



it hampered yorath as it did the england managers.,..all that talent and we qualified for NOTHING..I Think whoever had been our manager would have done the same but creative and imaginative it certainly was not.


Very harsh assessment. More than anything it was the loss of Hughes in that final qualifier against Romania followed by a missed penalty which stopped a very talented Welsh side from qualifying for USA94.

Yoarth's deployment of Hughes as a midfielder was creative thinking. In 1993 MH was still considered as a main striker but was converted by TY to midfield and was copied by Hughes' club sides later on in his career.
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Re: GOLDEN GENERATION ???

Postby dogfound » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:06 pm

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:not so sure..Gerrard/Lampard didnt work for whatever reason under quite a few experienced managers..and both were too good to leave out..we have had this when whoever happened to be manager had to try to fit our 4 or 5 best players who all happened to be attack orientated into a side..proper hampered a few Wales managers from doing much tactically and the inbalance of over producing {comparitively } at one end while often being poor down the other cost us qualification a number of times..


I remember when Wales had a sought of similar problem with Rush Saunders Hughes and Giggs. Terry Yorath found away to play them all which required Mark Hughes playing in midfield. It is that kind of creative and imaginative thinking which England managers lacked when dealing with the 'golden generation' and the Lampard/Gerrard 'problem'

I remember hearing a foreign TV pundit saying any decent coach/manager wouldn't describe the Lampard/Gerrard situation as a 'problem' but as an 'opportunity'.



it hampered yorath as it did the england managers.,..all that talent and we qualified for NOTHING..I Think whoever had been our manager would have done the same but creative and imaginative it certainly was not.


Very harsh assessment. More than anything it was the loss of Hughes in that final qualifier against Romania followed by a missed penalty which stopped a very talented Welsh side from qualifying for USA94.

Yoarth's deployment of Hughes as a midfielder was creative thinking. In 1993 MH was still considered as a main striker but was converted by TY to midfield and was copied by Hughes' club sides later on in his career.



missed penalty.? we should have been qualifying regular with all that talent.
but my point was we had EXACTLY the same problem as England. probably worse ..
the idea that Yorath playing all our best most talented players many out of position at the expense of any tactics and not qualifying was a master stroke is just wrong....its what kids do when having picks..i do concede that he was between a rock and a hard place
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