“ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

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“ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby worcester_ccfc » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:15 pm

BBC


Donald Trump has said the UK will "probably not" get a trade deal with the US, if the prime minister's Brexit plan goes ahead.

He told The Sun the PM's plan would "probably kill the deal" as it would mean the US "would be dealing with the European Union" instead of with the UK.

Theresa May has been making the case for a US free trade deal with Mr Trump, on his first UK visit as president.

She said Brexit was an "opportunity" to create growth in the UK and US.

Mr Trump also said that former foreign secretary Boris Johnson would make a "great prime minister", adding "I think he's got what it takes".

The president and his wife were given a red carpet reception at Blenheim Palace, Oxfordshire on Thursday evening.

They were at a black-tie dinner with Mrs May as news broke of his interview with the newspaper.

Mr Trump told The Sun newspaper that the UK's blueprint for its post-Brexit relations with the EU was "a much different deal than the people voted on".

On the subject of a future trade deal, he said the Chequers deal would mean it would be "most likely ... we would be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal".

He said he had told Mrs May how to do a Brexit deal, but: "She didn't agree, she didn't listen to me."

"I told her how to do it. That will be up to her to say. But I told her how to do it. She wanted to go a different route," he said.

The US president also said he was "cracking down" on the EU because "they have not treated the United States fairly on trading".

The BBC's Political Editor, Laura Kuenssberg, said Mr Trump's interview had "driven a bulldozer" through Mrs May's claim that the UK would be able to get decent trade deals with the wider world, while sticking to the EU rules.

And Labour MP Phil Wilson, supporter of the People's Vote campaign which calls for a public vote on the final Brexit deal, said Mr Trump's comments showed the prime minister's "botched" Brexit proposal was "worsening hour by hour".

He said: "She has pinned all her hopes on getting a trade deal with Donald Trump but instead the US president has explicitly backed and strengthened those who advocate a disastrous no deal Brexit."

Mr Trump's comments came on the same day the UK government published its proposal for its long-term relationship with the EU.

The long-awaited plan is aimed at ensuring trade co-operation, with no hard border for Northern Ireland, and global trade deals for the UK.

But leading Brexiteers, Boris Johnson and David Davis, resigned from the cabinet days after ministers reached agreement on the plan at Chequers a week ago.

Mr Johnson launched a scathing attack on the PM's strategy, saying the "dream is dying, suffocated by needless self doubt".

Responding to an earlier suggestion by President Trump that the British people were not getting the Brexit they voted for, Mrs May said: "We have come to an agreement on the proposal we are putting to the European Union which absolutely delivers on the Brexit we voted for."
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“ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby paulh_85 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:33 pm

Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby ElyBlue85 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:52 am

paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby T1JMO » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:08 am

paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


Spot on mate.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:19 am

ElyBlue85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.


I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.

While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:

Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster

Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).

However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby dogfound » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:39 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:
ElyBlue85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.


I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.

While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:

Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster

Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).

However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.



it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby dogfound » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:40 am

paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is



we would be out already because thats what was voted for.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:18 am

dogfound wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
ElyBlue85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.


I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.

While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:

Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster

Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).

However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.



it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..



I look through things with a child protection lense.

I completely disagree that children should be removed from their families if their families cross the border, legally or not. Remember that many of the families came across legally and still got seperated.

There is a wider debate on the border issue.. between 1965 and 1985, when the border was softer, at least 50% of people going across the border would return back to mexico.. Since 1985 when the borders became harsher there is less people going back across the border... a harsh border has made it more difficult to return, It actually keeps people in not out.. If you are interested Malcolm Gladwell did an excellent piece on this in Revisionist history

Yes I am a Trump hater because of many reasons. I make no apologies for that, have my reasons and happy to communicate these.

I concede your point that this was supposed to be about Brexit though, the point is Trump and his administration are incapable and untrustworthy, in my opinion and would make Brexit an even bigger clusterfuck.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:48 am

dogfound wrote:

it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..

Spot on

It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.

The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.

But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby Tony Blue Williams » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:51 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:

I look through things with a child protection lense.

I completely disagree that children should be removed from their families if their families cross the border, legally or not. Remember that many of the families came across legally and still got seperated.

There is a wider debate on the border issue.. between 1965 and 1985, when the border was softer, at least 50% of people going across the border would return back to mexico.. Since 1985 when the borders became harsher there is less people going back across the border... a harsh border has made it more difficult to return, It actually keeps people in not out.. If you are interested Malcolm Gladwell did an excellent piece on this in Revisionist history

Yes I am a Trump hater because of many reasons. I make no apologies for that, have my reasons and happy to communicate these.

I concede your point that this was supposed to be about Brexit though, the point is Trump and his administration are incapable and untrustworthy, in my opinion and would make Brexit an even bigger clusterfuck.


If you are looking at things through a child protection lens then start looking at the irresponsible parents who by their actions cause the separation.

You can't have a situation where parents can avoid the rule of law by hiding behind their children. That is ten times more disgusting than what your accusing President Trump and the American authorities of.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby Sven » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:00 am

Leave Trump to the Americans; he's (thankfully) their problem :thumbright:

We need to sort our own issues out and that starts with Theresa May's Government sorting out this Brexit thing to the satisfaction of the (albeit narrow) majority who voted for the complete break and not an assumed one :cry:

Britain can go it alone and with the will of the people, it can prosper; only fear stands in the way! :ayatollah:
"If you think what I say is 'offensive' to you, you should hear what I keep to myself...!"
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby dogfound » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:08 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:
dogfound wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
ElyBlue85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.


I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.

While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:

Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster

Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).

However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.



it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..



I look through things with a child protection lense.

I completely disagree that children should be removed from their families if their families cross the border, legally or not. Remember that many of the families came across legally and still got seperated.

There is a wider debate on the border issue.. between 1965 and 1985, when the border was softer, at least 50% of people going across the border would return back to mexico.. Since 1985 when the borders became harsher there is less people going back across the border... a harsh border has made it more difficult to return, It actually keeps people in not out.. If you are interested Malcolm Gladwell did an excellent piece on this in Revisionist history

Yes I am a Trump hater because of many reasons. I make no apologies for that, have my reasons and happy to communicate these.

I concede your point that this was supposed to be about Brexit though, the point is Trump and his administration are incapable and untrustworthy, in my opinion and would make Brexit an even bigger clusterfuck.



without going into a wider rights and wrongs of Trump debate...immigration was something he ran on..? and the existing civil rights driven US laws pretty much make it nye on impossible to detain families..? hence the splitting them up..
so with US law standing in the way of immigration promises which were democratically voted for whats the answer.?



as for brexit im sure we would be out under Trump {|not just trump either } and all the problems one by one would have been dealt with ..obviously with a lot more urgency from both sides than is being shown now by basically a bunch of people that didnt really want it to start with..
2plus years..FFS....has there ever been such a long period of negotiation for a break away.?
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby dogfound » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:23 am

Sven wrote:Leave Trump to the Americans; he's (thankfully) their problem :thumbright:

We need to sort our own issues out and that starts with Theresa May's Government sorting out this Brexit thing to the satisfaction of the (albeit narrow) majority who voted for the complete break and not an assumed one :cry:

Britain can go it alone and with the will of the people, it can prosper; only fear stands in the way! :ayatollah:



sorry Sven but the thread is about something Donald said..
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:01 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:

I look through things with a child protection lense.

I completely disagree that children should be removed from their families if their families cross the border, legally or not. Remember that many of the families came across legally and still got seperated.

There is a wider debate on the border issue.. between 1965 and 1985, when the border was softer, at least 50% of people going across the border would return back to mexico.. Since 1985 when the borders became harsher there is less people going back across the border... a harsh border has made it more difficult to return, It actually keeps people in not out.. If you are interested Malcolm Gladwell did an excellent piece on this in Revisionist history

Yes I am a Trump hater because of many reasons. I make no apologies for that, have my reasons and happy to communicate these.

I concede your point that this was supposed to be about Brexit though, the point is Trump and his administration are incapable and untrustworthy, in my opinion and would make Brexit an even bigger clusterfuck.


If you are looking at things through a child protection lens then start looking at the irresponsible parents who by their actions cause the separation.

You can't have a situation where parents can avoid the rule of law by hiding behind their children. That is ten times more disgusting than what your accusing President Trump and the American authorities of.



i think it is why we have different views on why parents are travelling to the US. Also seperating children from their family has never been the rule of law, that is a new policy trump brought in.

None thought there kids would be taken from them. Some are fleeing awful situations and America has always been welcoming to them and in fact their economy and country is based on that principle. We obviously have very different views on immigration. However, separating children from their parents as a deterrent is wrong.

However, there are many reasons to dislike the Trump administration, not just immigration.

But that is the beauty of this board, we all have different opinions.

The one thing we can unite on is the city and the new season! :bluescarf:
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby wez1927 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:05 am

No deal with the eu looks like its going to happen more and more ,wto rules we will be going on to like mostvof tge rest of the world
CARDIFF CITY TILL I DIE !
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:06 am

Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:

it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..

Spot on

It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.

The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.

But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.



It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,

Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.

I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby paulh_85 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:29 am

AfricanBluebird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:

it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..


Spot on

It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.

The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.

But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.



It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,

Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.

I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.



out of interest, if this is a new policy what would have happened previously?

there has to be seperate provisions for asylum seekers and economic migrants. leaving your country because its poor and you want a better life for your children is admirable, but its not the same as fleeing a war zone.

i suspect the vast majority of them are economic migrants but id be interested to here if thats not the case,
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby BlueMoon1974 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:41 am

Farage has hot his hand up his arse doing all these interviews. Its a soft runny brexit from now on . Im well happy with that, all the sheep heads said a hard brexit deal would be easy yet no ideas out on paper and the ring masters have cut and run. Now we have a plan and so it ends!!!!!!!
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby dogfound » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:04 pm

BlueMoon1974 wrote:Farage has hot his hand up his arse doing all these interviews. Its a soft runny brexit from now on . Im well happy with that, all the sheep heads said a hard brexit deal would be easy yet no ideas out on paper and the ring masters have cut and run. Now we have a plan and so it ends!!!!!!!



Farage the puppet master..Trump the puppet...yes i can see that clearly :laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:
and what the hell is hard brexit
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby dogfound » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:09 pm

A } illegally enter our country as a family , you will not be detained and released into the comunity and maybe get caught up with later...
B} enter our country illegally and youll be sperated from family members and WILL BE detained..

its not rocket science to figure which the deterent is out of those 2..
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:26 pm

paulh_85 wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:

it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..


Spot on

It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.

The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.

But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.



It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,

Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.

I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.



out of interest, if this is a new policy what would have happened previously?

there has to be seperate provisions for asylum seekers and economic migrants. leaving your country because its poor and you want a better life for your children is admirable, but its not the same as fleeing a war zone.

i suspect the vast majority of them are economic migrants but id be interested to here if thats not the case,



Previously asylum seekers were kept with their children and their cases processed. Some made it through, some didn't. But at least families were kept together.

It was also much cheaper.

Now the Trump admin are paying Bethany Christian Services $700 per day per child to keep the child in foster care, Bethany Christian Services are an adoption agency with ties to nancy devos family and republican lobbyists - the swamp is alive with self interests.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:36 pm

dogfound wrote:A } illegally enter our country as a family , you will not be detained and released into the comunity and maybe get caught up with later...
B} enter our country illegally and youll be sperated from family members and WILL BE detained..

its not rocket science to figure which the deterent is out of those 2..


There is no law or court ruling that mandates family separations. Check the laws. So it no one arriving at the border until recently would have known that there children would be taken away.

Family separation is a new policy (implemented in April) - nearly 2,000 immigrant children were separated from parents during six weeks in April and May who had no idea what would happen.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby paulh_85 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:36 pm

AfricanBluebird wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:

it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..


Spot on

It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.

The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.

But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.



It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,

Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.

I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.



out of interest, if this is a new policy what would have happened previously?

there has to be seperate provisions for asylum seekers and economic migrants. leaving your country because its poor and you want a better life for your children is admirable, but its not the same as fleeing a war zone.

i suspect the vast majority of them are economic migrants but id be interested to here if thats not the case,



Previously asylum seekers were kept with their children and their cases processed. Some made it through, some didn't. But at least families were kept together.

It was also much cheaper.

Now the Trump admin are paying Bethany Christian Services $700 per day per child to keep the child in foster care, Bethany Christian Services are an adoption agency with ties to nancy devos family and republican lobbyists - the swamp is alive with self interests.



a little off topic really i dont care too much about that.

so asylum seekers were kept together as a family where? what about people who aren't fleeing persecution and war, what happened to them?
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paulh_85
 
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:46 pm

paulh_85 wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
Tony Blue Williams wrote:
dogfound wrote:

it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..


Spot on

It always amazes me how parents who take their children on dangerous illegal journeys to countries they have no right to enter, completely avoid any kind of criticism or responsibility for the consequences.

The simple fact is if parents don't want to be separated from their children then they should break the law.

But of course it is a lot easier to blame Trump.



It depends the situation you left.. some are coming from appalling situations,

Also, it is a new thing of separating children from families so many would be unaware that was going to happen.

I have worked with refugee communities I can tell you that they don't love their kids any less than we love ours.



out of interest, if this is a new policy what would have happened previously?

there has to be seperate provisions for asylum seekers and economic migrants. leaving your country because its poor and you want a better life for your children is admirable, but its not the same as fleeing a war zone.

i suspect the vast majority of them are economic migrants but id be interested to here if thats not the case,



Previously asylum seekers were kept with their children and their cases processed. Some made it through, some didn't. But at least families were kept together.

It was also much cheaper.

Now the Trump admin are paying Bethany Christian Services $700 per day per child to keep the child in foster care, Bethany Christian Services are an adoption agency with ties to nancy devos family and republican lobbyists - the swamp is alive with self interests.



a little off topic really i dont care too much about that.

so asylum seekers were kept together as a family where? what about people who aren't fleeing persecution and war, what happened to them?


Paul, the irony is that the US laws provides asylum for qualified applicants from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras where there are significant problems and people are fleeing very violent and dangerous situations.

So they come because the US law allows them to apply for asylum... at the border they should be processed and the ones who don't qualify, i.e. cannot demonstrate why they should enter the states according to the US own rules, are rejected and sent back. So most are not entering illegally but arriving to be processed according to the law. They are usually held in centres while being processed but the trump administration decided in April to separate children from their families. So to blame the families for arriving when the US has a policy to accept people from those countries is just wrong.

Are there economic migrants of course, and I think that those genuinely fleeing violence should be prioritised, not economic migrants. However, all should be treated with a level of humanity and dignity when arriving. Shoving children into bethany christian services and paying bethany $700 per day per night to shove them in foster care around the country is just wrong.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby ElyBlue85 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:16 pm

dogfound wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
ElyBlue85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.


I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.

While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:

Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster

Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).

However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.



it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..


With the greatest respect, you don't know me and I don't know you. You have no idea who I would and wouldn't vote for, just as I would not know the same about you. The statement was that Trump would make it better and I gave my opinion backed up with why I thought he wouldn't. My opinion is based on living here and my interactions with Americans, not just the BBC. You are entitled to your view just as much as I am.

Are the parents wrong? Maybe. Do we have a duty to protect the children? Absolutely.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby dogfound » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:38 pm

ElyBlue85 wrote:
dogfound wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
ElyBlue85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.


I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.

While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:

Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster

Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).

However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.



it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..


With the greatest respect, you don't know me and I don't know you. You have no idea who I would and wouldn't vote for, just as I would not know the same about you. The statement was that Trump would make it better and I gave my opinion backed up with why I thought he wouldn't. My opinion is based on living here and my interactions with Americans, not just the BBC. You are entitled to your view just as much as I am.

Are the parents wrong? Maybe. Do we have a duty to protect the children? Absolutely.



suggest you re read what you wrote..chaos,division and racism.....here is a wild guess who you didnt vote for..trump.?
would you take your family on a journey that ended in being illegal immigrants.?
and would you expect prior to embarking on this journey some sort of promise as to what happens if caught.?
its a million miles from ideal but 100% caused by those who passed the current laws..
and i dont think taking your children illegally into foreign lands is a MAYBE wrong either..its flat out wrong
dogfound
 
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby ElyBlue85 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:18 pm

dogfound wrote:
ElyBlue85 wrote:
dogfound wrote:
AfricanBluebird wrote:
ElyBlue85 wrote:
paulh_85 wrote:Say what you like about trump, but if he was in charge here brexit wouldn’t be the clusterfuck it currently is


As an expat living in the US I beg to differ. His Presidency has caused chaos, division and stoked outright racism. The way he operates and makes changes here are rammed through with no thought to process or consequences. You only need to look no further than the separation of immigrant families with no documentation to keep track of where parents and children are.

So while I agree Brexit has been a clusterfuck, it would be no better under him.


I work part time for a child protection organisation based in the US who work in the US.

While I understand why some people like Trumps bravado and outspokenness the administration is absolutely clueless and implicit in damaging and hurting children and children services. Here are just a few things from my child-focussed perspective that the administration is doing so very very wrong:

Separated children - Separating children from their parents is not only wrong but the administration has no case management or social work to ensure children are protected, monitored or receive services that they need - they limited systems to even identify where they are or who their parents are - this is a child protection disaster

Taking money from HIV programmes to fund separation of children - HIV services for American men, women and children is being plundered to fund seperating children putting the health of many at risk. What an abomination. Let's not forget that Mike Pence is a religious extremist who has held a long term view that HIV programmes should be reduced and money redirected to 'sexual reorientation' of gay people (a process with a history of increasing suicides and depression among gay people).

However, Trump is a complete distraction to what is really going on. The Koch brothers have a long term objective of moving the States to a right-wing agenda which benefits the conservative elite.



it is a child protection disaster....but not caused by Trump...
if you illegally enter another country expect to be arrested...its what happens when you break the law...
i suggest knowing this and then taking your children with you is your fault..
you break any law get detained ,having kids is not a get out card....

both yourself and the guy above are just flat out Trump haters who couldnt help yourselves from going on rants covering a dozen topics none of which was brexit..


With the greatest respect, you don't know me and I don't know you. You have no idea who I would and wouldn't vote for, just as I would not know the same about you. The statement was that Trump would make it better and I gave my opinion backed up with why I thought he wouldn't. My opinion is based on living here and my interactions with Americans, not just the BBC. You are entitled to your view just as much as I am.

Are the parents wrong? Maybe. Do we have a duty to protect the children? Absolutely.



suggest you re read what you wrote..chaos,division and racism.....here is a wild guess who you didnt vote for..trump.?
would you take your family on a journey that ended in being illegal immigrants.?
and would you expect prior to embarking on this journey some sort of promise as to what happens if caught.?
its a million miles from ideal but 100% caused by those who passed the current laws..
and i dont think taking your children illegally into foreign lands is a MAYBE wrong either..its flat out wrong


The maybe was based on your responses above. Not all migrants claims are 100% correct and true. However, for a lot of those families they are probably going through some form of hardship and have a claim.

You are suggesting on one hand that you wouldnt take any child of yours but on the other,family separation is also wrong. What if you or they had no choice? From that standpoint, yes they absolutely deserve to be treated with human dignity. You point to the parents but the child hasnt asked to be put in a situation like it has, hense the duty and need to protect and have a process in place. I am agreeing with you that family separation is wrong.

In terms of who I would vote for? If I could vote, it wouldnt be for him, purely for what he stands and reinforces here in the US and how he conducts himself. Not a rant, my opinion and mine alone. Isnt that what message boards are for? Or are we now policing them? Free speech, what a thing!

Cool your jets.
ElyBlue85
 
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby paulh_85 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:20 pm

i thought aslyum seekers had to claim said asylum in the nearest safe country? its not a case of choosing where you go is it?

African bluebird surely knows more on the subject so please correct me if im wrong
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby WelshBluebird » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:57 pm

In terms of Trump, of course he is going to be saying these things.

He doesn't want us to get a good deal out of Brexit. He wants us to crash out, with our economy totally up the creek without a paddle, so we then go begging to the US for any trade deal, that of course Trump would be happy to sign with terms of are massively in the US's favour.
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Re: “ O/T Trump says Brexit plan would kill US trade deal “

Postby AfricanBluebird » Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:27 am

paulh_85 wrote:i thought aslyum seekers had to claim said asylum in the nearest safe country? its not a case of choosing where you go is it?

African bluebird surely knows more on the subject so please correct me if im wrong


There are legal points of entry on the border, many get there, many don't and try and cross illegally.

But honestly many families have been travelling weeks. These people don't have access to social media, 24/7 news. They are tired, confused and don't understand what is going on.

Are there some people coming just for economic reasons, yes... and it is up to the US to decide if they want economic migrants. But generally mothers and their young children are not economic migrants but really fleeing from awful situations.

The Trump administration has vilified such people and removing their children is just wrong, expensive and inhumane. Even if their asylum is rejected, they should be rejected as a family and helped to find somewhere to live peacefully

For the record Obama also had a great deal of criticism for some of the things he did at the border.

The international community have been way too passive in resolving issues which lead to displacement and migration and people turning at at borders is the consequence of this lack of action, I think too much emphasis and vilification is directed to the people displaced or seeking asylum rather than the root cause.

I am in India at the moment, we have Rohingya children coming across the border from bangladesh refugee camps, some with their parents and some without. Very difficult situation and no easy answers. But if we had intervened in Myanmar 12 months ago we would not have this crisis now. Similarly, the US and international community (inc the Previous Obama admin) have been inactive in diplomatically helping resolve the issues in the countries where these people are coming from who are arriving at the border.
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