Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporters"

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Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporters"

Postby Forever Blue » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:59 am

" I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporters to put there lives in danger "

Vince Alm:

Very quiet yesterday regarding the Derby postponement which in some way its a bit of a worry!

In my opinion there has been a clear cut breach of protocol in Derby postponing the fixture, and thats why I've been pushing hard for Justice to the fans, and the decision is Black and White yet nothing!


The police today did come out with some flaky statement that they were in dialogue with the club after denying in previous statements that Derby county FC acted solely in calling off the fixture.


However there is a major omission by Derby county FC which they cannot hide from, have not mentioned in any statement, and if they tried to shoe horn this omission in now it would be the final nail in their coffin but for one thing? That is the EFL would also be compromised after backing Derby decision rather hastily before checking the facts. They would have to admit they were wrong and Derby did not follow protocol for postponing the fixture. This may lead to them covering there tracks I hope not but it is a concern, and they are awfully quiet about it!


I brought the matter up with our club 2 days ago who obviously were also aware of the omission in the regulations, and have requested this evidence from the EFL. Nothing has been received yet which is strange considering we are 2 and half days on! It is all adding to my suspicions as this evidence should take about 2 seconds to provide, and if it was carried out, it should have formed part of the EFL statement released on Sunday when initially supporting Derby decision.


I'm not going to say what it is now although some of you may have an idea,I have not requested the evidence as attaining that evidence is the responsibility of Cardiff City FC from the EFL. I am going to wait for the EFL decision and keep it up my sleeve as this is beyond fishy now!!!


What I am really angry about is not the fact Derby might be playing a bit of oneupmanship! Not the fact that they have changed there statement, not the fact they used Health & safety as an excuse, Not the fact the authorities have come out in a bad light regarding the decision, not the fact the decision seemed preempted, not the fact there was no effort made to either delay the kick off time or an effort or desire to get the game on, none of that!


I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporters to put there lives in danger, yes it's our decision to travel, but what you going to do if your football club has a top of table clash pushing for promotion to the Premier league? You are going to give it a go! They know that. people risked their lives travelling to Derby whether they admit it or not our police were in dialogue with their police at 5.30am and they knew we were on the road at that time. least they can do is apologise to us and admit they got it wrong! Because they have tried to cover up whatever they are trying to cover up.



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Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporters"

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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby thomasblue » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:12 am

That was going well until the last part which makes the decision to cancel correct.

If cardiff fans had to risk there lives to get to the match then it WAS unsafe for the match to go ahead.

Maybe it should have been played behind closed doors that afternoon
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Steve Zodiak » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:42 am

thomasblue wrote:That was going well until the last part which makes the decision to cancel correct.

If cardiff fans had to risk there lives to get to the match then it WAS unsafe for the match to go ahead.

Maybe it should have been played behind closed doors that afternoon


I was thinking exactly the same. Not a wise choice of words when you are questioning why a match has been postponed, in a way he has answered the question himself with that sentence. Of course, he may have been talking in terms of the snow which fell in and around S Wales rather than Derby and surrounding areas, but if he is talking about conditions in general, I would have left that little bit out my statement.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Carpe Diem » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:45 am

thomasblue wrote:That was going well until the last part which makes the decision to cancel correct.

If cardiff fans had to risk there lives to get to the match then it WAS unsafe for the match to go ahead.

Maybe it should have been played behind closed doors that afternoon


I agree. Using that kind of language simply undermines our case and undoes all the great work done by Vince. Surely the argument was that there was no risk at all as this is what would then show the cancellation decision to be a scam?
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Steve the Tea TM (c) » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:01 am

I believe that the use of the phrase, 'life in danger,' referred to the conditions in S Wales. Irrespective of those in S Wales, the conditions in Derby should never have been a factor in postponing the game as photos show.

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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Mr Potato » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:07 am

The snow was worse in West when Cardiff fans set out, so yes and no, it can be explained. But, the fact it is so quiet makes me think there is a bit more to it. If EFL wanted so quickly to brush under carpet to me they’d have said in safety blah blah decision is right yada yada.

However, complaint has gone in they must be considering it otherwise the above comes back into play.

Protocol was clearly (from what has been posted) not followed, they have then considered the safety of DCFC fans around pride park but shown utter contempt for Cardiff fans traveling 3-4 hours to get there making no attempt to put game on.

The police statement is worthless as the conversation held was days prior, SAG clearly state it supports a DEEBY decision to postpone game, a decision it appears according to the rules it cannot make.

With no worsening weather on the day zero attempt was made to aid the fixture, no one could greet Cardiff pride park as no one could get there, yet they got there to decide game should be called off and contacted SAG??

EFL surely realise there is a case to answer, brushing this aside surely gives every league club the right to call a game every time it’s a bit snowy and they have key player(s) out. A licence it won’t want to give. They can’t say Derby were right and alter rules thereafter as why would you need to.

I am not saying EFL will deal with this, but, if they are investigating they will not comment or share nowt til they are ready. I don’t think they are going to brush this away, too risky for EFL especially with more snow forecast over Easter, it could cause mayhem.

Just my opinion - in a glass half full sort of way.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Wayne S » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:22 am

I have no issue with the last part of the statement. Vince is using their own words against them. Words that were wrong.

If the Police and Derby believed it was dangerous for THEIR fans to get to the ground why were OUR fans allowed to start their travel when it was worse in South Wales.

As Vince said, it is the fans decision to travel. Let's be honest most of the Derby fans in the city limits would have easily made the game.

You don't cancel a game fans couldn't get from a certain rural area.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Carpe Diem » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:25 am

Fair enough some good points made :thumbup:
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby epping blue » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:44 am

Carpe Diem wrote:
thomasblue wrote:That was going well until the last part which makes the decision to cancel correct.

If cardiff fans had to risk there lives to get to the match then it WAS unsafe for the match to go ahead.

Maybe it should have been played behind closed doors that afternoon


I agree. Using that kind of language simply undermines our case and undoes all the great work done by Vince. Surely the argument was that there was no risk at all as this is what would then show the cancellation decision to be a scam?



Vince is doing a great job and I thank him for that. The road conditions 150 miles away should be considered no differently form the roads 10 miles away. They should not effect the decision on whether the game is played or not. If the Sheffield or Manchester clubs called off games every time the Snake or Woodhead Passes were closed the season would last into July - every year.

The decision should be the conditions in and around the vicinity of the stadium. The key facts as I saw them were
1. There was very minimal snow lying.
2. It wasn't snowing
3. There was no more snow forecast.

Additionally
The local city buses were running, Arriva who run many of the services to neighbouring villages and towns only had 2 of their 100's of routes affected. Even the trains were running and Christ knows it doesn't take much to stop those.

What efforts were being made to deal with the very minimal level of snow ? Given that the biggest event in Derbyshire that weekend was about to take place, were the efforts of the authority sufficient to deal with the dusting of snow. Alright I except dusting was an exaggeration but it was in the low centimetres rather than inches.

Did the club and the local authority do what they could to get the game played ? Did they put in the same resources that they put into preparing for the Fulham game and if not then did they do all that they could to get the game played ?

Personally I always want to give the benefit of the doubt on the late call. I hate it when clubs rush to an early decision with an improving forecast. Although for me, it didn't make much difference, as I was travelling from Durham back to London and was taking in the game on the way. I fear in this case the decision was left in the hope that the overnight snow would be heavy enough to put the game beyond all reasonable doubt. That heavier overnight snow didn't materialise.

I would also give them the benefit of the doubt on the protocol. If the game needs to be off then I don't really care who calls it - within reason. But this was always going to be a contentious decision given the scarcity of snow and the clear benefit to them of not playing game. They went on their own because that may be have been the only guarantee that they'd get the decision they wanted.

It remains a disgraceful decision, that more than ever makes me as a football fan, feel like an expendable commodity. They don't care that they dick around with my time, its completely unimportant. That's not bleating about the postponement. I've travelled many thousands of miles over the 45 years to matches that didn't take place, it goes with the territory. It just feels in this case, we were all pawns in a Derby County charade.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby theclaw » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:26 am

If the rolls were reversed and Derby wanted to play the game but we had all the players out could we have cancelled the game because it was so unsafe for our fans to travel from S Wales?
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby epping blue » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:47 am

theclaw wrote:If the rolls were reversed and Derby wanted to play the game but we had all the players out could we have cancelled the game because it was so unsafe for our fans to travel from S Wales?


I think the answer to that is NO, which is as it should be. I think if the team failed to arrive there would have to be extremely extenuating circumstance to prevent them getting a fined. In fact if we had not turned up on Sunday I have no doubt we would have been charged for not fulfilling a fixture. To be honest the main routes were absolutely fine. It took me 4.5 hours to drive from Durham to London and apart from a bit of snow on the road to start with I saw no snow in contact with tarmac for the length of that journey.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby palerider » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:18 am

Just like any well run business there should be a risk assessment signed and dated but they are easy to fabricate so probably unlikely to help our case
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Steve Zodiak » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:09 pm

I notice that the Derby forum has picked up on this statement saying City fans risking life to get there. They will no doubt use this phrase to their advantage, even if it has been taken out of context and relates to conditions in S Wales rather than in and around Derby.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:19 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:I notice that the Derby forum has picked up on this statement saying City fans risking life to get there. They will no doubt use this phrase to their advantage, even if it has been taken out of context and relates to conditions in S Wales rather than in and around Derby.




They would do as they are clutching at anything that could justify their clubs behaviour? Vinces last point is clearly aimed at fact police did not think game would be off and did not indicate bad conditions in derby at 6am :old:
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby 1980s Bluebird » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:19 pm

Amazing how we battled out out of South Wales to get to Derby risking our lives but.....

If it had been work....feck that snowed in :D
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Jules » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:08 pm

Steve Zodiak wrote:I notice that the Derby forum has picked up on this statement saying City fans risking life to get there. They will no doubt use this phrase to their advantage, even if it has been taken out of context and relates to conditions in S Wales rather than in and around Derby.


Had to happen Steve, rather off the cuff comment been twisted to suit their needs, to be honest with the deafening silence from EFL I think its done and dusted. Don't think they knew what to do after issuing first statement and now will bury their head in the sand until it goes away. Pathetic.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:28 pm

Jules wrote:
Steve Zodiak wrote:I notice that the Derby forum has picked up on this statement saying City fans risking life to get there. They will no doubt use this phrase to their advantage, even if it has been taken out of context and relates to conditions in S Wales rather than in and around Derby.


Had to happen Steve, rather off the cuff comment been twisted to suit their needs, to be honest with the deafening silence from EFL I think its done and dusted. Don't think they knew what to do after issuing first statement and now will bury their head in the sand until it goes away. Pathetic.




But it's only their fans misguided view in reality it's all the other evidence that will be at efl disposal Inc the thing mentioned in beginning of vinces post, that's obviously quite damning if reading into it correctly. :old:
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Mr Potato » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:00 pm

To be honest I’d say the deafening silence is a worry for Derby more than us, the longer this drags on the longer it looks as though something is not adding up. If you can quash something quickly and be done with it you do so, however there is clearly something not stacking up as they are still unable to comment.

I wouldn’t be so smug at the moment if I were a Derby fan, not until the EFL say they are satisfied which evidently at this stage, they are not.

Que the new statement that they are satisfied!
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Jules » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:01 pm

Agree Pembroke but still think nothing will come of it as we are now three days down the line and nothing so unless Vince has something of a bombshell and the EFL are backed into a corner then sadly this will go away.
I fecking hate how football (game for the common man)has been manipulated into this greed ridden political farce, but there you go, Middlesbrough must be watching this with interest mind.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:05 pm

Jules wrote:Agree Pembroke but still think nothing will come of it as we are now three days down the line and nothing so unless Vince has something of a bombshell and the EFL are backed into a corner then sadly this will go away.
I fecking hate how football (game for the common man)has been manipulated into this greed ridden political farce, but there you go, Middlesbrough must be watching this with interest mind.



Sort of agree with fact it's time gone on and
It appears there is a damning bit of evidence given to efl, and as you say precident been set with borough so live in hope :thumbup:
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Mr Potato » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:06 pm

To be honest I’d say the deafening silence is a worry for Derby more than us, the longer this drags on the longer it looks as though something is not adding up. If you can quash something quickly and be done with it you do so, however there is clearly something not stacking up as they are still unable to comment.

I wouldn’t be so smug at the moment if I were a Derby fan, not until the EFL say they are satisfied which evidently at this stage, they are not.

Que the new statement that they are satisfied!
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Bakedalasker » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Can't see how Vince's last comment is going to effect the outcome.

To use the excuse you risked it in wales so Darby had every right to postpone is just daft.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby epping blue » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:22 pm

I hope they want to see evidence that Derby did everything in their power to ensure the game was played. So unless Derby's evidence indicates levels of snow fall that could not be cleared then they could have some issues. The EFL know, everyone in football knows what went on here but I don't think they'll want to find against Derby. The problem is, if they let them get away with calling off that game for extent of disruption they set a dangerous precedent.
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby rhondda 1015 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:48 pm

Nothing is going to happen, get over it...
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby grange_end1927 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:52 pm

rhondda 1015 wrote:Nothing is going to happen, get over it...




Are u a Derby rat mate?
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby rhondda 1015 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:15 pm

grange_end1927 wrote:
rhondda 1015 wrote:Nothing is going to happen, get over it...




Are u a Derby rat mate?


You're not the brightest on here, are you? If Annis has asked you to post to get more replies/hits fair enough, but otherwise...
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:25 pm

grange_end1927 wrote:
rhondda 1015 wrote:Nothing is going to happen, get over it...




Are u a Derby rat mate?




Whatever he is the statement isn't exactly city friendly or supportive! But each to their own :roll:
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Re: Vince Alm:"I'm angry the fact they allowed 2600 supporte

Postby Bluebina » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:58 pm

pembroke allan wrote:
grange_end1927 wrote:
rhondda 1015 wrote:Nothing is going to happen, get over it...




Are u a Derby rat mate?




Whatever he is the statement isn't exactly city friendly or supportive! But each to their own :roll:



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