*OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

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*OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Gavin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:06 am

TfL concluded the ride-hailing app firm was not fit and proper to hold a private hire operator licence.
Uber's approach and conduct demonstrated a lack of corporate responsibility which could have potential public safety and security implications, it said.
Uber said it would immediately challenge the decision in the courts.
In a statement, Uber said: "Transport for London and the mayor have caved in to a small number of people who want to restrict consumer choice."
It said the decision showed the world that "far from being open, London is closed to innovative companies".




Potentially interesting discussion topic here :happy1: :geek:
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*OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Sven » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:17 am

Gav, this is disappointing news. I have to say my experience of Uber to date has been very positive! Easy to arrange and at least they give you a price for the job before you roll :thumbright:

Last time in London, I needed to get across Hyde Park to my venue in a Black Cab (a journey of around a mile and a half) and I watched the meter rolling up nicely whilst I was stuck in traffic and not moving. Ended up paying just short of £20 (not including any tip) and a big lesson learned! :ayatollah:
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Tonteg Bluebird » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:03 pm

Sven wrote:Gav, this is disappointing news. I have to say my experience of Uber to date has been very positive! Easy to arrange and at least they give you a price for the job before you roll :thumbright:

Last time in London, I needed to get across Hyde Park to my venue in a Black Cab (a journey of around a mile and a half) and I watched the meter rolling up nicely whilst I was stuck in traffic and not moving. Ended up paying just short of £20 (not including any tip) and a big lesson learned! :ayatollah:


I think the taxi meters calculate the distance and time for each journey and if you're stuck in traffic, the meter adds a set additional amount after however many seconds of not moving. I imagine the London taxis to be even worse with this. :(

Around the Cardiff area, I use Dragon taxis, as they always charge on the meter and a lift home from Cardiff is usually half the price (I was charged £20.40 last time). The normal taxis waiting on the streets always ask for money up front and I'm always asked for a minimum of £40.
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby dogfound » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:05 pm

never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby pembroke allan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:27 pm

They are not reliable as i found out recently in london! Also if read article its about way its run and recently its had real bad publicity about way it treats drivers and way it operates, other cities have removed it after granting it a licence why?
owners getting rich without thought for drivers or rules. :old:
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Sven » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:41 pm

dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby dogfound » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:04 pm

Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?




my statement is a simple one..i do my best whenever possible to support local business, and not see profits leaving the area..
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Sven » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:51 pm

dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?




my statement is a simple one..i do my best whenever possible to support local business, and not see profits leaving the area..


Understand that and it is admirable when it can be achieved :thumbup:

My point is that these guys (Uber drivers in London on this occasion) are only trying to make a living and we very much live in a 'what's in it for me?' society where most of us 'shop around' with scant regard until it directly affects us

I'll give you an example: I wanted to part-ex my motorbike a couple of years ago, so I went to a 'local' dealer who (believing they have a 'captive' clientele in south Wales) expected me to pay RRP on the brand new model I fancied and offered me 'trade' on the old one that was in showroom condition and exceptionally low mileage; so I shopped around and saved myself just over £2500 by getting the same make/model bike from an official UK dealer (170 miles away) who showed they really wanted my business and also delivered the bike straight to my house!

It's no biggie but the 'local' businesses have to remember it's a two-way thing in the modern internet era :ayatollah:
"If you think what I say is 'offensive' to you, you should hear what I keep to myself...!"
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby dogfound » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:08 pm

Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?




my statement is a simple one..i do my best whenever possible to support local business, and not see profits leaving the area..


Understand that and it is admirable when it can be achieved :thumbup:

My point is that these guys (Uber drivers in London on this occasion) are only trying to make a living and we very much live in a 'what's in it for me?' society where most of us 'shop around' with scant regard until it directly affects us

I'll give you an example: I wanted to part-ex my motorbike a couple of years ago, so I went to a 'local' dealer who (believing they have a 'captive' clientele in south Wales) expected me to pay RRP on the brand new model I fancied and offered me 'trade' on the old one that was in showroom condition and exceptionally low mileage; so I shopped around and saved myself just over £2500 by getting the same make/model bike from an official UK dealer (170 miles away) who showed they really wanted my business and also delivered the bike straight to my house!

It's no biggie but the 'local' businesses have to remember it's a two-way thing in the modern internet era :ayatollah:



saving 2.5k is fair enough.. but taxi meters are set at what the council consider a fair price taking into account overheads..earnings..holidays..etc .its fair.
Uber who are not locally owned are just there to take a slice. cheaper? at whose expense?
and should they get a big enough share by finishing off locals will they remain cheaper or infact be as reliable { bare in mind these drivers work when they want and have no boss }
anyway..ive spent a big chunk of my working life being self employed and being both reliant and grateful to local people for supporting me and those ive employed...
id have bought the same bike as you and saved 2k.. but within reason ill always try to support locals.
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Sven » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:29 pm

dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?




my statement is a simple one..i do my best whenever possible to support local business, and not see profits leaving the area..


Understand that and it is admirable when it can be achieved :thumbup:

My point is that these guys (Uber drivers in London on this occasion) are only trying to make a living and we very much live in a 'what's in it for me?' society where most of us 'shop around' with scant regard until it directly affects us

I'll give you an example: I wanted to part-ex my motorbike a couple of years ago, so I went to a 'local' dealer who (believing they have a 'captive' clientele in south Wales) expected me to pay RRP on the brand new model I fancied and offered me 'trade' on the old one that was in showroom condition and exceptionally low mileage; so I shopped around and saved myself just over £2500 by getting the same make/model bike from an official UK dealer (170 miles away) who showed they really wanted my business and also delivered the bike straight to my house!

It's no biggie but the 'local' businesses have to remember it's a two-way thing in the modern internet era :ayatollah:



saving 2.5k is fair enough.. but taxi meters are set at what the council consider a fair price taking into account overheads..earnings..holidays..etc .its fair.
Uber who are not locally owned are just there to take a slice. cheaper? at whose expense?
and should they get a big enough share by finishing off locals will they remain cheaper or infact be as reliable { bare in mind these drivers work when they want and have no boss }
anyway..ive spent a big chunk of my working life being self employed and being both reliant and grateful to local people for supporting me and those ive employed...
id have bought the same bike as you and saved 2k.. but within reason ill always try to support locals.


Can't disagree with that last line and it's not that I don't. It's just has to be a two-way thing for it to work :ayatollah:
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Paulwallace » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:30 pm

dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?




my statement is a simple one..i do my best whenever possible to support local business, and not see profits leaving the area..


Understand that and it is admirable when it can be achieved :thumbup:

My point is that these guys (Uber drivers in London on this occasion) are only trying to make a living and we very much live in a 'what's in it for me?' society where most of us 'shop around' with scant regard until it directly affects us

I'll give you an example: I wanted to part-ex my motorbike a couple of years ago, so I went to a 'local' dealer who (believing they have a 'captive' clientele in south Wales) expected me to pay RRP on the brand new model I fancied and offered me 'trade' on the old one that was in showroom condition and exceptionally low mileage; so I shopped around and saved myself just over £2500 by getting the same make/model bike from an official UK dealer (170 miles away) who showed they really wanted my business and also delivered the bike straight to my house!

It's no biggie but the 'local' businesses have to remember it's a two-way thing in the modern internet era :ayatollah:



saving 2.5k is fair enough.. but taxi meters are set at what the council consider a fair price taking into account overheads..earnings..holidays..etc .its fair.
Uber who are not locally owned are just there to take a slice. cheaper? at whose expense?
and should they get a big enough share by finishing off locals will they remain cheaper or infact be as reliable { bare in mind these drivers work when they want and have no boss }
anyway..ive spent a big chunk of my working life being self employed and being both reliant and grateful to local people for supporting me and those ive employed...
id have bought the same bike as you and saved 2k.. but within reason ill always try to support locals.



A taxi in Cambridge charged me £30 for a return journey because they get to set their rates outside of the city.

The following day I used uber and it cost £12!!
So £18 more expensive for a trip totalling 3 miles these firms are asking to be put out of business.
The local firms need to start competing!!
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby dogfound » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:41 pm

Paulwallace wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?




my statement is a simple one..i do my best whenever possible to support local business, and not see profits leaving the area..


Understand that and it is admirable when it can be achieved :thumbup:

My point is that these guys (Uber drivers in London on this occasion) are only trying to make a living and we very much live in a 'what's in it for me?' society where most of us 'shop around' with scant regard until it directly affects us

I'll give you an example: I wanted to part-ex my motorbike a couple of years ago, so I went to a 'local' dealer who (believing they have a 'captive' clientele in south Wales) expected me to pay RRP on the brand new model I fancied and offered me 'trade' on the old one that was in showroom condition and exceptionally low mileage; so I shopped around and saved myself just over £2500 by getting the same make/model bike from an official UK dealer (170 miles away) who showed they really wanted my business and also delivered the bike straight to my house!

It's no biggie but the 'local' businesses have to remember it's a two-way thing in the modern internet era :ayatollah:



saving 2.5k is fair enough.. but taxi meters are set at what the council consider a fair price taking into account overheads..earnings..holidays..etc .its fair.
Uber who are not locally owned are just there to take a slice. cheaper? at whose expense?
and should they get a big enough share by finishing off locals will they remain cheaper or infact be as reliable { bare in mind these drivers work when they want and have no boss }
anyway..ive spent a big chunk of my working life being self employed and being both reliant and grateful to local people for supporting me and those ive employed...
id have bought the same bike as you and saved 2k.. but within reason ill always try to support locals.



A taxi in Cambridge charged me £30 for a return journey because they get to set their rates outside of the city.

The following day I used uber and it cost £12!!
So £18 more expensive for a trip totalling 3 miles these firms are asking to be put out of business.
The local firms need to start competing!!



not a taxi expert..but surely if not on meter you pre agreed price?
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Paulwallace » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:30 am

dogfound wrote:
Paulwallace wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:
Sven wrote:
dogfound wrote:never used them never will.
ive always been a big believer of whenever possible supporting locally run businesses..


What about the locally run drivers also trying to make a living and keeping fares low?

Don't they count or do other citizens not work for companies based outside the area? :?




my statement is a simple one..i do my best whenever possible to support local business, and not see profits leaving the area..


Understand that and it is admirable when it can be achieved :thumbup:

My point is that these guys (Uber drivers in London on this occasion) are only trying to make a living and we very much live in a 'what's in it for me?' society where most of us 'shop around' with scant regard until it directly affects us

I'll give you an example: I wanted to part-ex my motorbike a couple of years ago, so I went to a 'local' dealer who (believing they have a 'captive' clientele in south Wales) expected me to pay RRP on the brand new model I fancied and offered me 'trade' on the old one that was in showroom condition and exceptionally low mileage; so I shopped around and saved myself just over £2500 by getting the same make/model bike from an official UK dealer (170 miles away) who showed they really wanted my business and also delivered the bike straight to my house!

It's no biggie but the 'local' businesses have to remember it's a two-way thing in the modern internet era :ayatollah:



saving 2.5k is fair enough.. but taxi meters are set at what the council consider a fair price taking into account overheads..earnings..holidays..etc .its fair.
Uber who are not locally owned are just there to take a slice. cheaper? at whose expense?
and should they get a big enough share by finishing off locals will they remain cheaper or infact be as reliable { bare in mind these drivers work when they want and have no boss }
anyway..ive spent a big chunk of my working life being self employed and being both reliant and grateful to local people for supporting me and those ive employed...
id have bought the same bike as you and saved 2k.. but within reason ill always try to support locals.



A taxi in Cambridge charged me £30 for a return journey because they get to set their rates outside of the city.

The following day I used uber and it cost £12!!
So £18 more expensive for a trip totalling 3 miles these firms are asking to be put out of business.
The local firms need to start competing!!



not a taxi expert..but surely if not on meter you pre agreed price?


Unfortunately that was my mistake didn't feel the need to on such a short trip. Did call the taxi company and asked how much the journey would cost one way and they confirmed the amount.
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Gavin » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:08 am

I've used Uber many times in London and I have always thought it was a good service, I am very disappointed with the decision.

I cant see the issue with the business model myself, but perhaps someone can educate me, what the difference between an Uber drivers self employment and that of a multi-drop driver for a company such as DHL or Fed Ex?
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Paulwallace » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:32 am

Gavin wrote:I've used Uber many times in London and I have always thought it was a good service, I am very disappointed with the decision.

I cant see the issue with the business model myself, but perhaps someone can educate me, what the difference between an Uber drivers self employment and that of a multi-drop driver for a company such as DHL or Fed Ex?


Pretty sure most taxi drivers are self employed.
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Sven » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:26 am

Gavin wrote:I've used Uber many times in London and I have always thought it was a good service, I am very disappointed with the decision.

I cant see the issue with the business model myself, but perhaps someone can educate me, what the difference between an Uber drivers self employment and that of a multi-drop driver for a company such as DHL or Fed Ex?


Seems that TfL are concerned with the "lack of corporate responsibility" from Uber and the firm’s application for a new licence in London was rejected on the basis that the company is not a “fit and proper” private car hire operator.

It has sparked an outcry from a coalition of customers, government ministers and its 40,000 London-based drivers

Uber’s cars will not disappear immediately as its current licence expires on 30 September and it plans to challenge the ruling by London’s transport authority in the courts immediately, so the 'hailing app' can continue to operate in the capital – where it has 3.5 million users – until the firm has exhausted the appeals process.

Uber has 21 days to launch an appeal but can continue to operate until the process expires – which could take months.

Uber chief executive Dara Khosrowshahi wrote to staff on Friday confirming that the company would appeal the ruling. He said he disagreed with the decision but it was based on past behaviour.

“The truth is that there is a high cost to a bad reputation,” he wrote. “It really matters what people think of us, especially in a global business like ours.

“It’s critical that we act with integrity in everything we do, and learn how to be a better partner to every city we operate in. That doesn’t mean abandoning our principles—we will vigorously appeal TfL’s decision—but rather building trust through our actions and our behavior. In doing so, we will show that Uber is not just a really great product, but a really great company that is meaningfully contributing to society, beyond its business and its bottom line."

The decision by the London mayor’s transport body, Transport for London, was backed by Sadiq Khan, who said that all companies needed to “play by the rules”.

One of Uber’s 40,000 drivers in the capital, James Farrar, who has campaigned for better working conditions at the firm, said TfL’s decision was a “devastating blow”.

Trade Minister Greg Hands, who is also Minister for London, said: “At the flick of a pen Sadiq Khan is threatening to put 40,000 people out of work and leave 3.5 million users of Uber stranded. Uber must address safety concerns and it is important there is a level playing field across the private hire market. But a blanket ban will cause massive inconvenience to millions of Londoners, all while showing that the Mayor of London is closed to business and innovation.”

Employment rights campaigners said TfL’s decision was a warning shot to so-called gig economy companies, which include apps such as Deliveroo and delivery firms such as Hermes who argue their drivers and riders are self-employed.

Frank Field, the Labour MP who led a parliamentary inquiry which found that Uber drivers were treated as Victorian-style “sweated labour” said: “This is a gamechanger for the gig economy. Uber must now respond to TfL’s decision by totally resetting its business model.”
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby SwampCCFC » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:00 pm

i've never used uber before as they had a bad press, and i use public transport / car wherever possible. i saw a friend recently used it and it is a great concept which is catching on for a reason - its cheap, reliable, and you won't get ripped off. they tell you how far away they are, and as they have such a huge driver base they can get to you quickly.

if they don't meet the conditions for a licence, they shouldn't get the licence, simple as that. its their responsibility to ensure they comply. thereshouldn't be any political element to it.

we've all been ripped off by taxis before, and this concept largely removes that. its not a particularly big loss to lose traditional taxis. governments need to make sure these companies like deliveroo, uber etc pay their taxes and pay people properly.
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby welshrarebit » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:00 pm

I must admit I raise an eyebrow at the comments about employment rights campaigners and the lines that those in the gig economy are being abused. Yet whenever any of those actually working with Uber or deliveroo etc are actually interviewed they are almost universally positive and love the freedom and flexibility that their jobs offer them.

I think taking the licence is a bad thing. Private hires and black cabs need to become competitive not stamp out competition in a manner such as this. They are the ones moaning about Uber’s approach not the people actually driving for them. Vested interests I guess.
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby Sneggyblubird » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:24 pm

Only anecdotal but I've heard that Uber is not doing a proper job vetting their drivers resulting with alot of the public being abused or assaulted.I know if you want to be a black cab driver in London you have to jump through many hoops and subject to a thorough Police check yet Uber appears to be falling down in this aspect.
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Re: *OFF TOPIC* TFL axe Uber in London

Postby dogfound » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:47 pm

surely there are a certain amount of fares..if its black cab or Uber.1 journey 1 fare.
Uber havent created jobs .

on a side note shocked at the so called socialists on here creaming over an American company taking off 25% of those fares..

i dont often use a taxi but when i do ill suport a local..
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