CF72Blue wrote:I can never understand why the people of Liverpool only blame the coppers, yes they played a part of course they did, but what about the thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets trying to get into the ground, they had no right even being there, if they had not been there would it have happened, I doubt it but noone seems to question that.
They never seem to mention they were involved in another disaster, ie Heysel, which was their fault, not in their eyes it seems, the ground was to old, lets blame that.
CF72Blue wrote:I can never understand why the people of Liverpool only blame the coppers, yes they played a part of course they did, but what about the thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets trying to get into the ground, they had no right even being there, if they had not been there would it have happened, I doubt it but noone seems to question that.
They never seem to mention they were involved in another disaster, ie Heysel, which was their fault, not in their eyes it seems, the ground was to old, lets blame that.
pembroke allan wrote:CF72Blue wrote:I can never understand why the people of Liverpool only blame the coppers, yes they played a part of course they did, but what about the thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets trying to get into the ground, they had no right even being there, if they had not been there would it have happened, I doubt it but noone seems to question that.
They never seem to mention they were involved in another disaster, ie Heysel, which was their fault, not in their eyes it seems, the ground was to old, lets blame that.
They don't want their fantastic fans reputation being tarnished ! It's the truth when people say if it wasn't for the thousand or so pool fans there without tickets this disaster would not have happened? Yes copper made a mistake in letting in fans but in hindsight he should have kept gate shut
Then responsibility would have been those fans without tickets if anything happened.
CF72Blue wrote:Yes the decision making of the cops that day was pathetic, and massive mistakes were made, and their behaviour in the aftermath was appalling too, but what I am saying is surely the supporters who were there without tickets should take some responsibility to. Not once have I heard the people of Liverpool say this.
They never mention Heysel at all, am sure the families of some of the Juventus supporters who died that day love the name Liverpool.
Tony Blue Williams wrote:CF72Blue wrote:I can never understand why the people of Liverpool only blame the coppers, yes they played a part of course they did, but what about the thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets trying to get into the ground, they had no right even being there, if they had not been there would it have happened, I doubt it but noone seems to question that.
They never seem to mention they were involved in another disaster, ie Heysel, which was their fault, not in their eyes it seems, the ground was to old, lets blame that.
Things were different back in the 1980's fans of all clubs/international teams would turn up without a ticket, it wasn't an unknown phenomenon. I can remember going to a rugby international at Landsdowne Road in 1986 without a ticket and got in when gates were opened just before kick off.
The thing is these Police Officers were trained professionals who froze on the day and made a string of terrible decisions which directly led to loss of life. They then tried to cover their tracks and deflect the blame onto the dead fans. That could have been any group of football fans during the 1970/80's and frankly their was a culture amongst the Police that football fans were scum and deserved to die.
Their conduct not only lead to the unlawful killing of 96 fans but has also caused untold suffering to the families for nearly 30 years as they fought to get justice for what happened to those poor supporters.
Tony Blue Williams wrote:pembroke allan wrote:CF72Blue wrote:I can never understand why the people of Liverpool only blame the coppers, yes they played a part of course they did, but what about the thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets trying to get into the ground, they had no right even being there, if they had not been there would it have happened, I doubt it but noone seems to question that.
They never seem to mention they were involved in another disaster, ie Heysel, which was their fault, not in their eyes it seems, the ground was to old, lets blame that.
They don't want their fantastic fans reputation being tarnished ! It's the truth when people say if it wasn't for the thousand or so pool fans there without tickets this disaster would not have happened? Yes copper made a mistake in letting in fans but in hindsight he should have kept gate shut
Then responsibility would have been those fans without tickets if anything happened.
So it is unreasonable to expect a high ranking trained professional to make the correct decisions? David Duckenfield was totally incompetent and his idiotic decision making directly led to the deaths of 96 fans (although he will only face trial for 95 deaths).
He then aggravated this by trying to cover his tracks and deflecting the blame onto the Liverpool supporters with untrue stories about fans urinating on dead bodies and stealing wallets from the dying.
The man is scum of the highest order.
Gareth (Wilts) wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:CF72Blue wrote:I can never understand why the people of Liverpool only blame the coppers, yes they played a part of course they did, but what about the thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets trying to get into the ground, they had no right even being there, if they had not been there would it have happened, I doubt it but noone seems to question that.
They never seem to mention they were involved in another disaster, ie Heysel, which was their fault, not in their eyes it seems, the ground was to old, lets blame that.
Things were different back in the 1980's fans of all clubs/international teams would turn up without a ticket, it wasn't an unknown phenomenon. I can remember going to a rugby international at Landsdowne Road in 1986 without a ticket and got in when gates were opened just before kick off.
The thing is these Police Officers were trained professionals who froze on the day and made a string of terrible decisions which directly led to loss of life. They then tried to cover their tracks and deflect the blame onto the dead fans. That could have been any group of football fans during the 1970/80's and frankly their was a culture amongst the Police that football fans were scum and deserved to die.
Their conduct not only lead to the unlawful killing of 96 fans but has also caused untold suffering to the families for nearly 30 years as they fought to get justice for what happened to those poor supporters.
Liverpool fans still turn up pissed and without tickets but nothing is ever their fault. The police made huge mistakes and were criminally negligent but the disaster would not have happened had ticketless fans not turned up in huge numbers
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Gareth (Wilts) wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:CF72Blue wrote:I can never understand why the people of Liverpool only blame the coppers, yes they played a part of course they did, but what about the thousands of Liverpool fans without tickets trying to get into the ground, they had no right even being there, if they had not been there would it have happened, I doubt it but noone seems to question that.
They never seem to mention they were involved in another disaster, ie Heysel, which was their fault, not in their eyes it seems, the ground was to old, lets blame that.
Things were different back in the 1980's fans of all clubs/international teams would turn up without a ticket, it wasn't an unknown phenomenon. I can remember going to a rugby international at Landsdowne Road in 1986 without a ticket and got in when gates were opened just before kick off.
The thing is these Police Officers were trained professionals who froze on the day and made a string of terrible decisions which directly led to loss of life. They then tried to cover their tracks and deflect the blame onto the dead fans. That could have been any group of football fans during the 1970/80's and frankly their was a culture amongst the Police that football fans were scum and deserved to die.
Their conduct not only lead to the unlawful killing of 96 fans but has also caused untold suffering to the families for nearly 30 years as they fought to get justice for what happened to those poor supporters.
Liverpool fans still turn up pissed and without tickets but nothing is ever their fault. The police made huge mistakes and were criminally negligent but the disaster would not have happened had ticketless fans not turned up in huge numbers
Strictly speaking you could argue that the disaster wouldn't have happened if the ticketless Liverpool supporters had not been there. But the role of the Police is in their name, they are there to Police situations like that and prevent dangerous situations getting out of control.
If they fail to do that to an acceptable standard and people get hurt then they are negligent and face the consequences. That is exactly what happened at Hillsborough.
pembroke allan wrote:
Yes he should have made correct decision and that WAS to keep gates closed! then anything that would happen would be the fault of the thousand or so ticketless pool fans not supposed to be there? Or you saying it was ok for them to be there?
No one is denying police were wrong but by same token the ticketless fans contributed to the disaster aswell.
CF72Blue wrote:Strictly speaking you could argue that the disaster wouldn't have happened if the ticketless Liverpool supporters had not been there. But the role of the Police is in their name, they are there to Police situations like that and prevent dangerous situations getting out of control.
If they fail to do that to an acceptable standard and people get hurt then they are negligent and face the consequences. That is exactly what happened at Hillsborough.
Everybody is responsible to some extent for people's safety at big events, we should not have to rely solely on the Police protecting us, we must all play a part in this respect, the Liverpool fans without tickets who tried to get in that day, in my opinion did not give a damn about people's safety until it was to late.
nubbsy wrote:Did the fans without tickets that stormed the gates get charged too?
CF72Blue wrote:Primary reason yes, sole reason no.
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