Sat May 20, 2017 10:06 am
alfie sherwood wrote:dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:wez1927 wrote:Zabier wrote:To be honest, I was disappointed that Corbyn didn't appear on the televised debate last night. I can kind of see the reasoning. It could have just been all parties ganging up on him now UKIP are irrelevant and no longer the punch bag. However, it was an opportunity for him to critically destroy all the Tory policies in an unedited scenario. It was a huge opportunity missed if you ask me.
What were your thoughts on the debate last night? It's a shame that Labour and Conservative weren't represented and quite sad really. Showing a lack of willingness to engage with modern forms of media is frustrating. The one big thing that Corbyn had on May was her reluctance to debate live yet he's now put himself in the same bracket. Little decisions like that won't do Labour any favours. They have a solid manifesto. Yes, the other parties might well have ganged up on Corbyn but he had solid policies to fall back on that most of the other parties would agree with.
Alfie, I'm always interested to hear your views on here on football-related topics. You've made a good point about the Scandinavian countries as well. Once again, facts not interpretations or propaganda. Many won't like to admit it but Britain has always generally been quite a right wing stance nation. Obviously not to the extreme of the Nazis but a lot of stuff we might deem radical and extreme left is actually considered fairly normal in a lot of countries that do well for themselves.
You do know that the nazi werent right wing ? They were socialists and have alot of policy similar to the left?
That's quite a rewriting of history you've just made there.
The extreme right, ie: Nazis and fascists always believe in tight central (state) control and some populist policies such as full employment, provision of social housing, state ownership etc. However such populism, as in the case of Nazis and fascists, is offset by policies that are at the extreme end of the right wing spectrum. The Nazis for instance were deeply authoritarian and persecuted and ultimately murdered on a vast scale minorities such as the disabled, Jews, gypsies and homosexuals. They also believed in one party dictatorships, huge military spending, expansionist foreign policies and extremely harsh punishments for law breakers.
To suggest they weren't right wing is patently ridiculous.
youve described both the nazi party under Hitler and many extreme left comunist regimes there.
but cant see it.? or dont want to see it..?
much easier to say its patently rediculous than actually have a balanced take eh
I hold the extreme left and exteme right in almost equal contempt.
Hope that helps
Sat May 20, 2017 10:11 am
dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:wez1927 wrote:Zabier wrote:To be honest, I was disappointed that Corbyn didn't appear on the televised debate last night. I can kind of see the reasoning. It could have just been all parties ganging up on him now UKIP are irrelevant and no longer the punch bag. However, it was an opportunity for him to critically destroy all the Tory policies in an unedited scenario. It was a huge opportunity missed if you ask me.
What were your thoughts on the debate last night? It's a shame that Labour and Conservative weren't represented and quite sad really. Showing a lack of willingness to engage with modern forms of media is frustrating. The one big thing that Corbyn had on May was her reluctance to debate live yet he's now put himself in the same bracket. Little decisions like that won't do Labour any favours. They have a solid manifesto. Yes, the other parties might well have ganged up on Corbyn but he had solid policies to fall back on that most of the other parties would agree with.
Alfie, I'm always interested to hear your views on here on football-related topics. You've made a good point about the Scandinavian countries as well. Once again, facts not interpretations or propaganda. Many won't like to admit it but Britain has always generally been quite a right wing stance nation. Obviously not to the extreme of the Nazis but a lot of stuff we might deem radical and extreme left is actually considered fairly normal in a lot of countries that do well for themselves.
You do know that the nazi werent right wing ? They were socialists and have alot of policy similar to the left?
That's quite a rewriting of history you've just made there.
The extreme right, ie: Nazis and fascists always believe in tight central (state) control and some populist policies such as full employment, provision of social housing, state ownership etc. However such populism, as in the case of Nazis and fascists, is offset by policies that are at the extreme end of the right wing spectrum. The Nazis for instance were deeply authoritarian and persecuted and ultimately murdered on a vast scale minorities such as the disabled, Jews, gypsies and homosexuals. They also believed in one party dictatorships, huge military spending, expansionist foreign policies and extremely harsh punishments for law breakers.
To suggest they weren't right wing is patently ridiculous.
youve described both the nazi party under Hitler and many extreme left comunist regimes there.
but cant see it.? or dont want to see it..?
much easier to say its patently rediculous than actually have a balanced take eh
I hold the extreme left and exteme right in almost equal contempt.
Hope that helps
how does that help me?
i was pointing something obvious out that your post suggested you were either oblivious too or didnt want to recognise.
.
Sat May 20, 2017 10:28 am
dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:wez1927 wrote:Zabier wrote:To be honest, I was disappointed that Corbyn didn't appear on the televised debate last night. I can kind of see the reasoning. It could have just been all parties ganging up on him now UKIP are irrelevant and no longer the punch bag. However, it was an opportunity for him to critically destroy all the Tory policies in an unedited scenario. It was a huge opportunity missed if you ask me.
What were your thoughts on the debate last night? It's a shame that Labour and Conservative weren't represented and quite sad really. Showing a lack of willingness to engage with modern forms of media is frustrating. The one big thing that Corbyn had on May was her reluctance to debate live yet he's now put himself in the same bracket. Little decisions like that won't do Labour any favours. They have a solid manifesto. Yes, the other parties might well have ganged up on Corbyn but he had solid policies to fall back on that most of the other parties would agree with.
Alfie, I'm always interested to hear your views on here on football-related topics. You've made a good point about the Scandinavian countries as well. Once again, facts not interpretations or propaganda. Many won't like to admit it but Britain has always generally been quite a right wing stance nation. Obviously not to the extreme of the Nazis but a lot of stuff we might deem radical and extreme left is actually considered fairly normal in a lot of countries that do well for themselves.
You do know that the nazi werent right wing ? They were socialists and have alot of policy similar to the left?
That's quite a rewriting of history you've just made there.
The extreme right, ie: Nazis and fascists always believe in tight central (state) control and some populist policies such as full employment, provision of social housing, state ownership etc. However such populism, as in the case of Nazis and fascists, is offset by policies that are at the extreme end of the right wing spectrum. The Nazis for instance were deeply authoritarian and persecuted and ultimately murdered on a vast scale minorities such as the disabled, Jews, gypsies and homosexuals. They also believed in one party dictatorships, huge military spending, expansionist foreign policies and extremely harsh punishments for law breakers.
To suggest they weren't right wing is patently ridiculous.
youve described both the nazi party under Hitler and many extreme left comunist regimes there.
but cant see it.? or dont want to see it..?
much easier to say its patently rediculous than actually have a balanced take eh
I hold the extreme left and exteme right in almost equal contempt.
Hope that helps
how does that help me?
i was pointing something obvious out that your post suggested you were either oblivious too or didnt want to recognise.
.
Sat May 20, 2017 12:04 pm
alfie sherwood wrote:dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:wez1927 wrote:Zabier wrote:To be honest, I was disappointed that Corbyn didn't appear on the televised debate last night. I can kind of see the reasoning. It could have just been all parties ganging up on him now UKIP are irrelevant and no longer the punch bag. However, it was an opportunity for him to critically destroy all the Tory policies in an unedited scenario. It was a huge opportunity missed if you ask me.
What were your thoughts on the debate last night? It's a shame that Labour and Conservative weren't represented and quite sad really. Showing a lack of willingness to engage with modern forms of media is frustrating. The one big thing that Corbyn had on May was her reluctance to debate live yet he's now put himself in the same bracket. Little decisions like that won't do Labour any favours. They have a solid manifesto. Yes, the other parties might well have ganged up on Corbyn but he had solid policies to fall back on that most of the other parties would agree with.
Alfie, I'm always interested to hear your views on here on football-related topics. You've made a good point about the Scandinavian countries as well. Once again, facts not interpretations or propaganda. Many won't like to admit it but Britain has always generally been quite a right wing stance nation. Obviously not to the extreme of the Nazis but a lot of stuff we might deem radical and extreme left is actually considered fairly normal in a lot of countries that do well for themselves.
You do know that the nazi werent right wing ? They were socialists and have alot of policy similar to the left?
That's quite a rewriting of history you've just made there.
The extreme right, ie: Nazis and fascists always believe in tight central (state) control and some populist policies such as full employment, provision of social housing, state ownership etc. However such populism, as in the case of Nazis and fascists, is offset by policies that are at the extreme end of the right wing spectrum. The Nazis for instance were deeply authoritarian and persecuted and ultimately murdered on a vast scale minorities such as the disabled, Jews, gypsies and homosexuals. They also believed in one party dictatorships, huge military spending, expansionist foreign policies and extremely harsh punishments for law breakers.
To suggest they weren't right wing is patently ridiculous.
youve described both the nazi party under Hitler and many extreme left comunist regimes there.
but cant see it.? or dont want to see it..?
much easier to say its patently rediculous than actually have a balanced take eh
I hold the extreme left and exteme right in almost equal contempt.
Hope that helps
how does that help me?
i was pointing something obvious out that your post suggested you were either oblivious too or didnt want to recognise.
.
Oh, I recognise it alright, that's why I also consider what's described as the hard left - for example Stalin's Soviet Union as a stain on humanity. There are huge amount of similarities between the hard left and hard right - authoritarianism, the silencing and murder of political opponents etc. Hard left/hard right = two cheeks of the same backside in my view.
Aside from the (many) things they have in common, main differences between hard left and hard right tend to be: hard right has a focus on racial superiority, religious sectarianism and Darwinism and hard left has focus on overthrow of capitalism.
It doesn't detract from the fact that Wez was spouting Olympic sized bollocks when he he wrote that the Nazi's weren't right wing though.
Sat May 20, 2017 12:06 pm
Sat May 20, 2017 12:24 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:dogfound wrote:dogfound wrote:alfie sherwood wrote:wez1927 wrote:Zabier wrote:To be honest, I was disappointed that Corbyn didn't appear on the televised debate last night. I can kind of see the reasoning. It could have just been all parties ganging up on him now UKIP are irrelevant and no longer the punch bag. However, it was an opportunity for him to critically destroy all the Tory policies in an unedited scenario. It was a huge opportunity missed if you ask me.
What were your thoughts on the debate last night? It's a shame that Labour and Conservative weren't represented and quite sad really. Showing a lack of willingness to engage with modern forms of media is frustrating. The one big thing that Corbyn had on May was her reluctance to debate live yet he's now put himself in the same bracket. Little decisions like that won't do Labour any favours. They have a solid manifesto. Yes, the other parties might well have ganged up on Corbyn but he had solid policies to fall back on that most of the other parties would agree with.
Alfie, I'm always interested to hear your views on here on football-related topics. You've made a good point about the Scandinavian countries as well. Once again, facts not interpretations or propaganda. Many won't like to admit it but Britain has always generally been quite a right wing stance nation. Obviously not to the extreme of the Nazis but a lot of stuff we might deem radical and extreme left is actually considered fairly normal in a lot of countries that do well for themselves.
You do know that the nazi werent right wing ? They were socialists and have alot of policy similar to the left?
That's quite a rewriting of history you've just made there.
The extreme right, ie: Nazis and fascists always believe in tight central (state) control and some populist policies such as full employment, provision of social housing, state ownership etc. However such populism, as in the case of Nazis and fascists, is offset by policies that are at the extreme end of the right wing spectrum. The Nazis for instance were deeply authoritarian and persecuted and ultimately murdered on a vast scale minorities such as the disabled, Jews, gypsies and homosexuals. They also believed in one party dictatorships, huge military spending, expansionist foreign policies and extremely harsh punishments for law breakers.
To suggest they weren't right wing is patently ridiculous.
youve described both the nazi party under Hitler and many extreme left comunist regimes there.
but cant see it.? or dont want to see it..?
much easier to say its patently rediculous than actually have a balanced take eh
I hold the extreme left and exteme right in almost equal contempt.
Hope that helps
how does that help me?
i was pointing something obvious out that your post suggested you were either oblivious too or didnt want to recognise.
.
Oh, I recognise it alright, that's why I also consider what's described as the hard left - for example Stalin's Soviet Union as a stain on humanity. There are huge amount of similarities between the hard left and hard right - authoritarianism, the silencing and murder of political opponents etc. Hard left/hard right = two cheeks of the same backside in my view.
Aside from the (many) things they have in common, main differences between hard left and hard right tend to be: hard right has a focus on racial superiority, religious sectarianism and Darwinism and hard left has focus on overthrow of capitalism.
It doesn't detract from the fact that Wez was spouting Olympic sized bollocks when he he wrote that the Nazi's weren't right wing though.
Wasting your time mate.You could get him an interview with Hitler and he'd still wouldn't change his mind.Actually if Wez had been around in 1942 and spoke to Hitler he probably would have shot himself 3 years earlier.
Sat May 20, 2017 7:34 pm
Sat May 20, 2017 9:45 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 1:47 pm
Hotdogboy wrote:Lib dems for me only ones who will give us a vote on brexit deal.
Sun May 21, 2017 1:58 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 3:20 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Wasting your time mate. You could get him an interview with Hitler and he'd still wouldn't change his mind. Actually if Wez had been around in 1942 and spoke to Hitler he probably would have shot himself 3 years earlier.
Sun May 21, 2017 3:23 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:Agree with Sven, but we in Wales have been run by Labour for the last 20 years, and in all honesty I don't see much changing after this election. I would be very surprised if we see any major changes down at the Bay, and I think we can almost guarantee that Wales will continue to be run by Labour for the next five years at least.
Sun May 21, 2017 4:28 pm
Sven wrote:Hotdogboy wrote:Lib dems for me only ones who will give us a vote on brexit deal.
The Conservatives gave us a vote and we (the majority of the people who could be bothered to turn up) did!
The result (for the uneducated) was that the UK voted to LEAVE the EU
It is now up to the politicians to get it sorted with the best deal they can get. They'll do it on our behalf and it won't be in their interests or ours to mess it up, so just let them get on with it
A vote for the Liberals is a wasted vote in this particular election and people need to consider that it was David Cameron giving said vote in the first place that created the situation we are now in!
Rightly or wrongly is (I guess) a matter of personal opinion depending on whether people wanted in or out of the EU prior to the vote being given
I voted OUT for a number of reasons (mainly connected to our right to decide our own direction and not that forced upon us by unelected but highly paid bureaucrats) but my personal opinion is that giving the people the decision was ill-conceived at best and maybe even downright dangerous given both the relative ignorance of the people and the downright mis-information or apocalyptic forecasts given. To date, the opposite has happened and it reminds me of the claims of major computer issues when the clock ticked in to the year 2000 and on the day the whole experience was a damp but expensive squib!
But, it is what it is and it's time to get on with it, so both the UK and the EU (who it needs to be remembered are fearful that the UK's exit will be the first of several) can concentrate on their own game and move on
The people have spoken and no amount of whingeing will change the irrefutable FACT that the majority of people (even if it was by one single vote) simply wanted the UK out of the EU and it was not a "wait and see before we make a proper decision" scenario
Sun May 21, 2017 4:34 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 5:24 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 10:03 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 10:28 pm
Sun May 21, 2017 10:30 pm
Sven wrote:Hotdogboy wrote:Lib dems for me only ones who will give us a vote on brexit deal.
The Conservatives gave us a vote and we (the majority of the people who could be bothered to turn up) did!
The result (for the uneducated) was that the UK voted to LEAVE the EU
It is now up to the politicians to get it sorted with the best deal they can get. They'll do it on our behalf and it won't be in their interests or ours to mess it up, so just let them get on with it
A vote for the Liberals is a wasted vote in this particular election and people need to consider that it was David Cameron giving said vote in the first place that created the situation we are now in!
Rightly or wrongly is (I guess) a matter of personal opinion depending on whether people wanted in or out of the EU prior to the vote being given
I voted OUT for a number of reasons (mainly connected to our right to decide our own direction and not that forced upon us by unelected but highly paid bureaucrats) but my personal opinion is that giving the people the decision was ill-conceived at best and maybe even downright dangerous given both the relative ignorance of the people and the downright mis-information or apocalyptic forecasts given. To date, the opposite has happened and it reminds me of the claims of major computer issues when the clock ticked in to the year 2000 and on the day the whole experience was a damp but expensive squib!
But, it is what it is and it's time to get on with it, so both the UK and the EU (who it needs to be remembered are fearful that the UK's exit will be the first of several) can concentrate on their own game and move on
The people have spoken and no amount of whingeing will change the irrefutable FACT that the majority of people (even if it was by one single vote) simply wanted the UK out of the EU and it was not a "wait and see before we make a proper decision" scenario
Mon May 22, 2017 12:42 am
Hotdogboy wrote:Sven could I ask you if you assumed I was a "remained" that was having a whinge ??
Mon May 22, 2017 1:03 am
dogfound wrote:Sven wrote:Hotdogboy wrote:Lib dems for me only ones who will give us a vote on brexit deal.
The Conservatives gave us a vote and we (the majority of the people who could be bothered to turn up) did!
The result (for the uneducated) was that the UK voted to LEAVE the EU
It is now up to the politicians to get it sorted with the best deal they can get. They'll do it on our behalf and it won't be in their interests or ours to mess it up, so just let them get on with it
A vote for the Liberals is a wasted vote in this particular election and people need to consider that it was David Cameron giving said vote in the first place that created the situation we are now in!
Rightly or wrongly is (I guess) a matter of personal opinion depending on whether people wanted in or out of the EU prior to the vote being given
I voted OUT for a number of reasons (mainly connected to our right to decide our own direction and not that forced upon us by unelected but highly paid bureaucrats) but my personal opinion is that giving the people the decision was ill-conceived at best and maybe even downright dangerous given both the relative ignorance of the people and the downright mis-information or apocalyptic forecasts given. To date, the opposite has happened and it reminds me of the claims of major computer issues when the clock ticked in to the year 2000 and on the day the whole experience was a damp but expensive squib!
But, it is what it is and it's time to get on with it, so both the UK and the EU (who it needs to be remembered are fearful that the UK's exit will be the first of several) can concentrate on their own game and move on
The people have spoken and no amount of whingeing will change the irrefutable FACT that the majority of people (even if it was by one single vote) simply wanted the UK out of the EU and it was not a "wait and see before we make a proper decision" scenario
youve said now a number of times things like ...those that could be bothered to vote.
if your of the opinion it was a low turnout your wrong.
Mon May 22, 2017 8:50 am
Mon May 22, 2017 9:05 am
Mon May 22, 2017 1:08 pm
CasuallyCasual wrote:I can't believe there are so many misinformed flippers on here that are considering voting for the Tories
Mon May 22, 2017 3:17 pm
Hotdogboy wrote:Leave voters 17.4 mill.
Remain voters. 16.1 mill
Didn't not vote 12.9 mill
Not on electoral register 18.1 mill
More people weren't allowed to voice they vote than voted leave.
Mon May 22, 2017 3:18 pm
Mon May 22, 2017 4:01 pm
wez1927 wrote:Zabier wrote:To be honest, I was disappointed that Corbyn didn't appear on the televised debate last night. I can kind of see the reasoning. It could have just been all parties ganging up on him now UKIP are irrelevant and no longer the punch bag. However, it was an opportunity for him to critically destroy all the Tory policies in an unedited scenario. It was a huge opportunity missed if you ask me.
What were your thoughts on the debate last night? It's a shame that Labour and Conservative weren't represented and quite sad really. Showing a lack of willingness to engage with modern forms of media is frustrating. The one big thing that Corbyn had on May was her reluctance to debate live yet he's now put himself in the same bracket. Little decisions like that won't do Labour any favours. They have a solid manifesto. Yes, the other parties might well have ganged up on Corbyn but he had solid policies to fall back on that most of the other parties would agree with.
Alfie, I'm always interested to hear your views on here on football-related topics. You've made a good point about the Scandinavian countries as well. Once again, facts not interpretations or propaganda. Many won't like to admit it but Britain has always generally been quite a right wing stance nation. Obviously not to the extreme of the Nazis but a lot of stuff we might deem radical and extreme left is actually considered fairly normal in a lot of countries that do well for themselves.
You do know that the nazi werent right wing ? They were socialists and have alot of policy similar to the left?
Mon May 22, 2017 4:51 pm
Hotdogboy wrote:So Sven may I ask what you reasons for leaving the e.u were just the top 5 would do.
My were no immigration without our say so from anywhere. Freedom to trade with who we want. Freedom to make our own employment laws less protection for employees so they have to work to keep they jobs. Hard border with Ireland. To not share any intelligence with Europe. My main reasons to get out of Europe. And that's what I want anything less is not what I voted for. I want what I voted for. To many leavers don't seem to care what they get. Which says to me they didn't know what they were voting for.
Also you mentioned in you post that over half the country wanted out. This is incorrect. A massive amount of people weren't entitled to vote and some would argue like myself this vote effects them more than most current voters. Which is why I voted leave believing I was doing the best for their future.
Also over 27% of voters didn't turn out so even then half of the voters didn't vote remain. Estimates around 38% of voters actually voted leave. A much smaller number if you include the whole population. Then it looks like we won with a tiny % which to me isn't democratically correct. A few deciding for the many. But it's worked in my favour so I'm happy to run with it if I get what I actually voted for.
I believe if there was another vote the country would vote remain.
Mon May 22, 2017 7:32 pm
darran1927 wrote:Don't know who I m voting for yet but to me at first glance Labours figures don't add up , what he promises sounds great free school meals , free tution fees , more police etc but don't get how he is in planning on paying for all this , something has got to give somewhere ,
Mon May 22, 2017 11:11 pm
CasuallyCasual wrote:I can't believe there are so many misinformed flippers on here that are considering voting for the Tories
Mon May 22, 2017 11:12 pm
Sven wrote:Hotdogboy wrote:So Sven may I ask what you reasons for leaving the e.u were just the top 5 would do.
My were no immigration without our say so from anywhere. Freedom to trade with who we want. Freedom to make our own employment laws less protection for employees so they have to work to keep they jobs. Hard border with Ireland. To not share any intelligence with Europe. My main reasons to get out of Europe. And that's what I want anything less is not what I voted for. I want what I voted for. To many leavers don't seem to care what they get. Which says to me they didn't know what they were voting for.
Also you mentioned in you post that over half the country wanted out. This is incorrect. A massive amount of people weren't entitled to vote and some would argue like myself this vote effects them more than most current voters. Which is why I voted leave believing I was doing the best for their future.
Also over 27% of voters didn't turn out so even then half of the voters didn't vote remain. Estimates around 38% of voters actually voted leave. A much smaller number if you include the whole population. Then it looks like we won with a tiny % which to me isn't democratically correct. A few deciding for the many. But it's worked in my favour so I'm happy to run with it if I get what I actually voted for.
I believe if there was another vote the country would vote remain.
You may ask but all I will say is that whilst we may have voted the same way, our reasons are wide apart; particularly on the sharing of information, which I believe is essential
Of those who voted (surely the only ones who can be counted? ) more than half voted Brexit...FACT!
What you weren't given was a number of scenarios of 'how' we leave. You voted on a simple yes or no scenario and now the Government have the unenviable task of getting it done to the satisfaction of a public most of whom still don't understand all the politicking involved
We'd all like different things out of the situation but the cost of our 'self-determination' as a nation might well be that we have to compromise in some areas. I can accept that (IMHO our Government are not likely to sell the UK down the river) and I took that into consideration when I voted. It appears others cannot or did not!