' Cardiff City letter to Shareholders arrived today '

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debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

Wez, so it looks like many City fans and I have done my money buying shares in City.

debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

Wez, so it looks like many City fans and I have done my money buying shares in City.

on the plus side isn't it 120millon shares being converted ? people should of sold their shares earlier at a higher price

debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

Wez, so it looks like many City fans and I have done my money buying shares in City.

on the plus side isn't it 120millon shares being converted ? people should of sold their shares earlier at a higher price

I don't know?

Wez, Myself and many others have been trying to sell for two years,No one wanted them

debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

Wez, so it looks like many City fans and I have done my money buying shares in City.

on the plus side isn't it 120millon shares being converted ? people should of sold their shares earlier at a higher price

If I'm reading this right the letter seems to say up to a maximum of One Billion Two Hundred Million shares worth £120m

debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

Wez, so it looks like many City fans and I have done my money buying shares in City.

on the plus side isn't it 120millon shares being converted ? people should of sold their shares earlier at a higher price

I don't know?

Wez, Myself and many others have been trying to sell for two years,No one wanted them

Have you tried Bessemer Road Boot Sale Market, that's where I got rid of my Newport County shares

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

Wez, so it looks like many City fans and I have done my money buying shares in City.

on the plus side isn't it 120millon shares being converted ? people should of sold their shares earlier at a higher price

I don't know?

Wez, Myself and many others have been trying to sell for two years,No one wanted them

Have you tried Bessemer Road Boot Sale Market, that's where I got rid of my Newport County shares

No Tony,but I think I should of

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

does that mean when someone wants to buy the club they have to buy one billion two hundred million shares ?,
and is this good news for Cardiff or bad

It's good news, Tan keeping his promise.
I'm a shareholder too and I knew the day I put the money in I'd never see it again. Just grateful still to have a club.

It's good news, Tan keeping his promise.
I'm a shareholder too and I knew the day I put the money in I'd never see it again. Just grateful still to have a club.

Well said.

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

does that mean when someone wants to buy the club they have to buy one billion two hundred million shares ?,
and is this good news for Cardiff or bad

Yes but they are 10p shares I believe not £1 shares

My way of thinking is that it will actually free money up so that the club would be able to spend if they wanted in the next transfer window without breaking ffp rules
Extra money coming into the club through the sale of shares
Slightly complicated but a way of getting around the ffp rules

My way of thinking is that it will actually free money up so that the club would be able to spend if they wanted in the next transfer window without breaking ffp rules
Extra money coming into the club through the sale of shares
Slightly complicated but a way of getting around the ffp rules

debt to equity with all shareholders losing most of the value of their shares

No they don't lose value in reality. Other than Vincent Tan ( and possibly Michael Isaac if he didn't sell his shares to VT as part of his termination as a director) no other shareholder had a material percentage shareholding before this pending new issue of shares.

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

About right Tony. Vincent Tan was owed £108m in Feb this year when he announced the £68m debt conversion and the 4x£8m annual write offs.
Other shareholders shares were worth virtually nothing before this as they were only a minimal % anyway.

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

It doesn't give new money to spend, it just converts existing debt into shares. It is therefore not "new money"

My way of thinking is that it will actually free money up so that the club would be able to spend if they wanted in the next transfer window without breaking ffp rules
Extra money coming into the club through the sale of shares
Slightly complicated but a way of getting around the ffp rules

It doesn't free money up and has no effect on FFP.
It isn't extra money, it is the same money, just as shares rather than debt.

It's good news, Tan keeping his promise.
I'm a shareholder too and I knew the day I put the money in I'd never see it again. Just grateful still to have a club.

Tim it is great news if this new ability to do the debt conversion is followed up by an actual conversion.

It's good news, Tan keeping his promise.
I'm a shareholder too and I knew the day I put the money in I'd never see it again. Just grateful still to have a club.

Tim it is great news if this new ability to do the debt conversion is followed up by an actual conversion.

Spot on. All that is actually happening is a restructure of monies already owed to Tan, with the new option of a conversion into shares if he chooses to do so. Only time will tell if this option is put into effect, but as far as I can see, there is no new money being made available, and it looks as if Tan is putting the plans in place for a conversion of debt to equity as was promised quite a long time back. However, this is football and Crdiff City we are talking about. A lot can and probably will happen over the next five years.

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

It doesn't give new money to spend, it just converts existing debt into shares. It is therefore not "new money"

what I ment was he's converting all his debt in one and not over a period of time which COULD give us more money each season if he choose to invest more money

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

It doesn't give new money to spend, it just converts existing debt into shares. It is therefore not "new money"

what I ment was he's converting all his debt in one and not over a period of time which COULD give us more money each season if he choose to invest more money

Wez, nothing has changed.

In February VT said he would be converting £68m of the £108m he was owed " immediately" with the balance of £40m being written off ( rather than converted to shares) over 5 years to help with FFP. This latest news of the impending issue of new shares allows that to happen but isn't actually a conversion ( yet) and is not new or more money from VT.

Wez, nothing has changed.

In February VT said he would be converting £68m of the £108m he was owed " immediately" with the balance of £40m being written off ( rather than converted to shares) over 5 years to help with FFP. This latest news of the impending issue of new shares allows that to happen but isn't actually a conversion ( yet) and is not new or more money from VT.

Thanks for that Keith I understand the situation better now.

However, just a question if VT is writing off £40m and converting £68m into shares doesn't that leave (if my maths is right) a total of £52m (out of the £120m of new shares) which VT (or even a new investor) could buy/convert in the future?

As you know under FFP a club can lose £5m per season with a further £8m injected via share investment totalling £13m. If we lose £5m a season it has to be covered somehow so wouldn't this extra capacity be a way of doing that?

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

It doesn't give new money to spend, it just converts existing debt into shares. It is therefore not "new money"

what I ment was he's converting all his debt in one and not over a period of time which COULD give us more money each season if he choose to invest more money

Wez, nothing has changed.

In February VT said he would be converting £68m of the £108m he was owed " immediately" with the balance of £40m being written off ( rather than converted to shares) over 5 years to help with FFP. This latest news of the impending issue of new shares allows that to happen but isn't actually a conversion ( yet) and is not new or more money from VT.

Keith, So is it a step forward to making our club debt free as promised 7 years ago?

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

It doesn't give new money to spend, it just converts existing debt into shares. It is therefore not "new money"

what I ment was he's converting all his debt in one and not over a period of time which COULD give us more money each season if he choose to invest more money

Wez, nothing has changed.

In February VT said he would be converting £68m of the £108m he was owed " immediately" with the balance of £40m being written off ( rather than converted to shares) over 5 years to help with FFP. This latest news of the impending issue of new shares allows that to happen but isn't actually a conversion ( yet) and is not new or more money from VT.

Keith, So is it a step forward to making our club debt free as promised 7 years ago?

Yes it is Annis.
And let's not forget that the club was on the brink of administration and facing winding up orders when he came in.
He's paid up all the other creditors, PMG,Inland Revenue, Player Funding hedge funds (Ranson), stadium creditors, Motherwell, Sunderland and all the other clubs we owed, and of course Sam Hammam.

Right now, he is sticking to his promises. Even if it's taking longer than expected.

The club has a future and you and I now own shares of something which is now solvent- even though it's a smaller %. As opposed to shares in a bankrupt business.

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

It doesn't give new money to spend, it just converts existing debt into shares. It is therefore not "new money"

what I ment was he's converting all his debt in one and not over a period of time which COULD give us more money each season if he choose to invest more money

Wez, nothing has changed.

In February VT said he would be converting £68m of the £108m he was owed " immediately" with the balance of £40m being written off ( rather than converted to shares) over 5 years to help with FFP. This latest news of the impending issue of new shares allows that to happen but isn't actually a conversion ( yet) and is not new or more money from VT.

Keith, So is it a step forward to making our club debt free as promised 7 years ago?

Yes it is Annis.
And let's not forget that the club was on the brink of administration and facing winding up orders when he came in.
He's paid up all the other creditors, PMG,Inland Revenue, Player Funding hedge funds (Ranson), stadium creditors, Motherwell, Sunderland and all the other clubs we owed, and of course Sam Hammam.

Right now, he is sticking to his promises. Even if it's taking longer than expected.

The club has a future and you and I now own shares of something which is now solvent- even though it's a smaller %. As opposed to shares in a bankrupt business.

Tim, for the future of our club, I would gladly give up my shares

But as to Vincent Tans reign here,you know my strong views.

But I will say this,the appointment of Neil Warnock is one of the best decisions ever made by Tan since he arrived 7 years ago

Can anyone explain what this is to us who have no idea what's going on please

You need Keith'62 for a full in depth explanation but in layman's terms the club are creating 'extra' shares at the value of 10p per share. VT will buy these new shares by writing off some or all of the debt owed to him by the club.

However, there is a knock on affect to existing shareholders as their share of the club is diluted and their shares are worth much less.

One billion two hundred million shares are being created which equals to £120m which is what the club will eventually owe VT (I presume).

it looks like the plan has changed if that's true and we could be ready to spend instead of writing off 8 million a season

It doesn't give new money to spend, it just converts existing debt into shares. It is therefore not "new money"

what I ment was he's converting all his debt in one and not over a period of time which COULD give us more money each season if he choose to invest more money

Wez, nothing has changed.

In February VT said he would be converting £68m of the £108m he was owed " immediately" with the balance of £40m being written off ( rather than converted to shares) over 5 years to help with FFP. This latest news of the impending issue of new shares allows that to happen but isn't actually a conversion ( yet) and is not new or more money from VT.

Keith, So is it a step forward to making our club debt free as promised 7 years ago?

Yes it is Annis.
And let's not forget that the club was on the brink of administration and facing winding up orders when he came in.
He's paid up all the other creditors, PMG,Inland Revenue, Player Funding hedge funds (Ranson), stadium creditors, Motherwell, Sunderland and all the other clubs we owed, and of course Sam Hammam.

Right now, he is sticking to his promises. Even if it's taking longer than expected.

The club has a future and you and I now own shares of something which is now solvent- even though it's a smaller %. As opposed to shares in a bankrupt business.

Tim, for the future of our club, I would gladly give up my shares

But as to Vincent Tans reign here,you know my strong views.

But I will say this,the appointment of Neil Warnock is one of the best decisions ever made by Tan since he arrived 7 years ago

In fairness after some monumental cock ups in his first few years he really does seem to be trying to put things right