Ditch the system

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Ditch the system

Postby bluemun » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:50 am

We really need to stop playing five at the back asap. It simply isn't working! Against top teams away it might work, but it doesn't use our strengths ( however limited). We can't attack on the break and Harris could be our best winger in a different one. Immers and Ralls have gone missing for much of this season. To be brutally honest, without signing two strikers we have a relegation battle on our hands, because it's the strongest league for a long, long time.
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Ditch the system

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Re: Ditch the system

Postby ThomasC » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:47 am

I don't think the club's players benefit from having such a defensive formation as 5-3-2
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby TrueBlue99 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:10 pm

I agree I really i dont think its working, it worked for wales as they had a match winner up front in Bale, we dont have one of those obviously, the wing backs still aren't providing enough width imo apart for kadeem, and I think Ralls has been poor in the midfield so far.

I think we should switch to a flat back four and have Kadeem further forward with some help to cover him, even though hes been doing some very good defensive work. Maybe a 4231 with Gunnar and Okeefe being my two preferred cdm's when Stuart has recovered and Whittingham out on the left so he has more time on the ball to create something and then Immers just behind the striker, wether that be Pilks or someone else to come in.
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby troobloo3339 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:48 pm

TrueBlue99 wrote:I agree I really i dont think its working, it worked for wales as they had a match winner up front in Bale, we dont have one of those obviously, the wing backs still aren't providing enough width imo apart for kadeem, and I think Ralls has been poor in the midfield so far.

I think we should switch to a flat back four and have Kadeem further forward with some help to cover him, even though hes been doing some very good defensive work. Maybe a 4231 with Gunnar and Okeefe being my two preferred cdm's when Stuart has recovered and Whittingham out on the left so he has more time on the ball to create something and then Immers just behind the striker, wether that be Pilks or someone else to come in.


It's not how Wales play though
Wales play 3 4 2 1
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby davids » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:22 pm

The 3-5-2 formation was all the rage about 5 years ago but most of the teams that pioneered it have now abandoned it.

Slade was criticised (as was Dave Jones) for rigidly sticking to 4-4-2 in every game he played.

Trollope so far has stuck pretty rigidly to 3-5-2 despite it having hardly been what you'd call a success.

Is it too much to ask to have a manager who can set up a team in a formation that best suits the qualities of the players he has, rather than trying to shoehorn players into various systems, often with players being played out of position?

Too much is made of rigid formations for me - decent players guided by a suitable manager should be able to adapt to changes in the game without making such a meal of playing in this system or that.
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby ThomasC » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:26 pm

davids wrote:The 3-5-2 formation was all the rage about 5 years ago but most of the teams that pioneered it have now abandoned it.

Slade was criticised (as was Dave Jones) for rigidly sticking to 4-4-2 in every game he played.

Trollope so far has stuck pretty rigidly to 3-5-2 despite it having hardly been what you'd call a success.

Is it too much to ask to have a manager who can set up a team in a formation that best suits the qualities of the players he has, rather than trying to shoehorn players into various systems, often with players being played out of position?

Too much is made of rigid formations for me - decent players guided by a suitable manager should be able to adapt to changes in the game without making such a meal of playing in this system or that.


I don't like it at home where we should be aggressive not passive!
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby troobloo3339 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:37 pm

davids wrote:The 3-5-2 formation was all the rage about 5 years ago but most of the teams that pioneered it have now abandoned it.

Slade was criticised (as was Dave Jones) for rigidly sticking to 4-4-2 in every game he played.

Trollope so far has stuck pretty rigidly to 3-5-2 despite it having hardly been what you'd call a success.

Is it too much to ask to have a manager who can set up a team in a formation that best suits the qualities of the players he has, rather than trying to shoehorn players into various systems, often with players being played out of position?

Too much is made of rigid formations for me - decent players guided by a suitable manager should be able to adapt to changes in the game without making such a meal of playing in this system or that.


IMO if we were playing 3 5 2 I would be happy
But we are not
We set up 5 3 2 on Saturday not 3 5 2 jazz and Harris were more like standard full backs rather than wing backs
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby davids » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:43 pm

troobloo3339 wrote:
davids wrote:The 3-5-2 formation was all the rage about 5 years ago but most of the teams that pioneered it have now abandoned it.

Slade was criticised (as was Dave Jones) for rigidly sticking to 4-4-2 in every game he played.

Trollope so far has stuck pretty rigidly to 3-5-2 despite it having hardly been what you'd call a success.

Is it too much to ask to have a manager who can set up a team in a formation that best suits the qualities of the players he has, rather than trying to shoehorn players into various systems, often with players being played out of position?

Too much is made of rigid formations for me - decent players guided by a suitable manager should be able to adapt to changes in the game without making such a meal of playing in this system or that.


IMO if we were playing 3 5 2 I would be happy
But we are not
We set up 5 3 2 on Saturday not 3 5 2 jazz and Harris were more like standard full backs rather than wing backs


Fair point. The wing backs rarely got over the halfway line in the second half although they did a bit more in the first half.
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby troobloo3339 » Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:46 pm

davids wrote:
troobloo3339 wrote:
davids wrote:The 3-5-2 formation was all the rage about 5 years ago but most of the teams that pioneered it have now abandoned it.

Slade was criticised (as was Dave Jones) for rigidly sticking to 4-4-2 in every game he played.

Trollope so far has stuck pretty rigidly to 3-5-2 despite it having hardly been what you'd call a success.

Is it too much to ask to have a manager who can set up a team in a formation that best suits the qualities of the players he has, rather than trying to shoehorn players into various systems, often with players being played out of position?

Too much is made of rigid formations for me - decent players guided by a suitable manager should be able to adapt to changes in the game without making such a meal of playing in this system or that.


IMO if we were playing 3 5 2 I would be happy
But we are not
We set up 5 3 2 on Saturday not 3 5 2 jazz and Harris were more like standard full backs rather than wing backs


Fair point. The wing backs rarely got over the halfway line in the second half although they did a bit more in the first half.


I thought Harris actually did better second half
I've watched every game so far this season
And I'm still waiting to see jazz take on the opposition defenders, he allways turns back
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby bluemun » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:39 pm

If teams employ the right tactics against the wingback system, then it becomes virtually impossible for them to attack. England did against Wales, as did Portugal. We have players who can play at fullback like Peltier and Bennett and Harris and John could be used as wingers, especially Kadeem.
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby ThomasC » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:48 am

bluemun wrote:If teams employ the right tactics against the wingback system, then it becomes virtually impossible for them to attack. England did against Wales, as did Portugal. We have players who can play at fullback like Peltier and Bennett and Harris and John could be used as wingers, especially Kadeem.


I thought N.Ireland got tactics spot on against us. Without Bale that was 0-0 game for sure :ayatollah: :bluebird:
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:28 am

Lots teams who used 352 or 532 are now using 442 variations! Of course they have better strikers but in principle if players used correctly it does work, slate had faults but didn't he keep us in with playoff chance we'll into season?
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Re: Ditch the system

Postby Reza » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:22 am

pembroke allan wrote:Lots teams who used 352 or 532 are now using 442 variations! Of course they have better strikers but in principle if players used correctly it does work, slate had faults but didn't he keep us in with playoff chance we'll into season?



i agree allan the football wasnt great but we was compact and hard to beat, we have already lost more home games under trollope and we're only at the first international break
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