WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE, IS IT FOR REAL THIS TIME ?

Everyone who knows me or have read my posts or writings for the Echo will know my view and what I consider to be the most important thing for Cardiff City and that is being debt free.

For far too long this club has had a large debt hanging over it and it has always been seen as a noose around the club's neck but more worryingly it has been something that fans have always believed it will bring the club to its knees at some point in time.

Thankfully, despite numerous 'close calls', so far we have avoided administration or even worse liquidation and recent announcements by Vincent Tan sound very positive indeed and if the debt to equity happens it is certainly a massive step in the right direction for the club.

When the rebrand was first announced, I despised the idea of playing in red and having the Bluebird removed from our badge but the opportunity to be debt free I felt was too good an opportunity for us not to take and would be beneficial to the club in allowing it to move forward as a financially sound run business but i, for one, would at least fight to restore our traditional colour of blue from the day we became a red club.

I appreciate and totally understand that others had and continue to have a different view of their view of opposing the rebrand but I can't change my stance at that time.

Thankfully, the efforts or thousands of fans in different ways, saw a return to blue and the matter of playing in red at home has been reversed.

But what about the debt?

It is still there and higher than when Vincent Tan turned us red!!

Now excuse my scepticism but last weeks announcement is not the first time we have been told the club would be debt free.

In July 2013, Tan told the press that we would be debt free 'within days'.

July 18th 2013 : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23362625

Just one month later in August 2013, he was quoted as saying 'within two months' the club would be rid of its debt.

August 15th 2013 : http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foot ... ff-5737145

Two and a half years later we are back at the same place, a promise of a conversion of debt into shares, it hasn't taken place yet and just to be clear the Langston debt has not been paid up at time of writing but that does look like a matter of formality so I hope this is not another false dawn.

Far too long we as Cardiff City fans have believed everything is falling into place but how many times have we been let down?

I hope it doesn't sound like I am being negative at the idea of the debt to equity swap but I just feel like the old saying 'once bitten twice shy'.

I, above everything else, want to see the club debt free and hope that the most recent announcement is fulfilled and will be thankful to Tan for carrying out the promise first mooted nearly four years ago.

We may never forget the wrongs of the recent past and I suppose that some will never forgive but if the debt is cleared once and for all I don't think anybody can say it is not positive for the club.

Let's just hope we actually see that day come and no more false promises.

He has always said once the Langston debt has been sorted then he will put debt to equity.
I believe him when he said he will do that this past week, to have a debt free club will be much easier for him to sell the club.

Spot on with that I agree but until the it's payed I personally can't trust tan as you say to many false promises in the past.
A debt free club is what we've all wanted for many a year if it happens that is a great thing for ccfc.

Can't help feeling if tan had been honest and didn't rebrand the club then things may be different we all live by our own actions and tan has to live by his but in saying that his actions have ruined the club for many people in lots of different ways and the consequence of that is fans feel detached from ccfc bitter about tans dealings no amount of money can repair that for many.

For me hated the rebrand beyond dought glad city have the blue back glad we have a bluebird again on the badge glad tans at last sorting the debt out but on the debt the jury is out we will see.

The lasting problem other than the debt is city as a club is broken can it be fixed .
?
The answer for many is only if tan goes if only tan had done things different were could we be now who knows it's where we are now that counts.

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Both media pieces were taken with a pinch of salt at the time because of information that people were privvy to on this messageboard.

The "within days" statement was as a result of Sam & Tan planning to sit down together and get it sorted. The "within 2 months" statement came about as talks obviously showed that the two parties were miles apart. There were a few on here that were aware of this and let us know.

The rest is history with the relationship breaking down to a level that it went to court. This is why it turned into a 30 month debacle and not a "within days" fait a compli. Both sides would not budge on either payment or advising who Langston were.

But were are there now. Just £40 million to go but a hell of a lot healthier than we have been for many a year.

He has always said once the Langston debt has been sorted then he will put debt to equity.
I believe him when he said he will do that this past week, to have a debt free club will be much easier for him to sell the club.

Gabbs, I am not looking at the reasons or excuses why it has happened, far too much water under the bridge for that, I just hope that this time the promises turn out be reality, this club needs to have the long standing debt sorted.

I believed him two half years ago, I believed the club nearly four years ago too that the debt would be wiped out, I guess it is a case of wait until it happens for me now before I start to feel like celebrating it as good news.

Spot on with that I agree but until the it's payed I personally can't trust tan as you say to many false promises in the past.
A debt free club is what we've all wanted for many a year if it happens that is a great thing for ccfc.

Can't help feeling if tan had been honest and didn't rebrand the club then things may be different we all live by our own actions and tan has to live by his but in saying that his actions have ruined the club for many people in lots of different ways and the consequence of that is fans feel detached from ccfc bitter about tans dealings no amount of money can repair that for many.

For me hated the rebrand beyond dought glad city have the blue back glad we have a bluebird again on the badge glad tans at last sorting the debt out but on the debt the jury is out we will see.

The lasting problem other than the debt is city as a club is broken can it be fixed .
?
The answer for many is only if tan goes if only tan had done things different were could we be now who knows it's where we are now that counts.

If all the mistakes are corrected and the debt is paid off, I still feel it is a long road ahead to repairing the wounds created but we would be at least on the right road to recovering a bad situation.

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Mike, at this moment theirs are promises not actioned.

I hope they turn into action and are fully actioned.

Then and only then will Tan will have kept his promise.

..... I am not looking at the reasons or excuses why it has happened ..... I just hope that this time the promises turn out be reality .....

I believed him two half years ago .....

You cannot make the suggestion that promises have not been kept in the past without looking at the reasons the promises weren't kept.

Both media pieces were taken with a pinch of salt at the time because of information that people were privvy to on this messageboard.

The "within days" statement was as a result of Sam & Tan planning to sit down together and get it sorted. The "within 2 months" statement came about as talks obviously showed that the two parties were miles apart. There were a few on here that were aware of this and let us know.

The rest is history with the relationship breaking down to a level that it went to court. This is why it turned into a 30 month debacle and not a "within days" fait a compli. Both sides would not budge on either payment or advising who Langston were.

But were are there now. Just £40 million to go but a hell of a lot healthier than we have been for many a year.

Wayne, I am not being pedantic but as yet the Langston payment has not been settled so therefore the £68m conversion has yet to take place, I hope they are just formalities but right now the debt is not the £40m figure that you state but I hope that everything works out as Tan has stated and it becomes £40m and the five year plan kicks in.

..... I am not looking at the reasons or excuses why it has happened ..... I just hope that this time the promises turn out be reality .....

I believed him two half years ago .....

You cannot make the suggestion that promises have not been kept in the past without looking at the reasons the promises weren't kept.

So therefore by the same token you cannot argue that the £68m had been converted because it hasn't yet.

It is a promise or statement of intent at this time.

I said a couple of days back that I am not jumping on the excitement bandwagon based on what Tan said about our debt. If we become debt free that will be great, but after nearly 50 years of following this club, I have heard countless promises that came to nothing. I will wait until it actually happens, and we know that due to FFP rules it is going to take 5 years to completely clear these debts. That is a long time in football, and lots can happen between now and then. I hope that the recent announcement becomes reality, but I would be a rich man if I had a couple of pounds for every statement made by the club which turned out to be a load of rubbish. I am hopeful that we will be debt free for the first time in my lifetime, but I am not holding my breath.

Spot on with that I agree but until the it's payed I personally can't trust tan as you say to many false promises in the past.
A debt free club is what we've all wanted for many a year if it happens that is a great thing for ccfc.

Can't help feeling if tan had been honest and didn't rebrand the club then things may be different we all live by our own actions and tan has to live by his but in saying that his actions have ruined the club for many people in lots of different ways and the consequence of that is fans feel detached from ccfc bitter about tans dealings no amount of money can repair that for many.

For me hated the rebrand beyond dought glad city have the blue back glad we have a bluebird again on the badge glad tans at last sorting the debt out but on the debt the jury is out we will see.

The lasting problem other than the debt is city as a club is broken can it be fixed .
?
The answer for many is only if tan goes if only tan had done things different were could we be now who knows it's where we are now that counts.

If all the mistakes are corrected and the debt is paid off, I still feel it is a long road ahead to repairing the wounds created but we would be at least on the right road to recovering a bad situation.

Agree
If he puts his money where his mouth is that's a good start but lets wait and see I'm not saying its not going to happen more of a lets wait and see at least Langston is gone for good now .
Maybe if tan was a bit more honest about his short comings people would respect him more .
Also he needs to stop taking his own advice on football matters he needs true football people around him to speak for him someone to 're connect the fan base because tans a nutter and people no it .

The club has to use this good news to move forward and 're connecting the fans to the club is a must

..... I am not looking at the reasons or excuses why it has happened ..... I just hope that this time the promises turn out be reality .....

I believed him two half years ago .....

You cannot make the suggestion that promises have not been kept in the past without looking at the reasons the promises weren't kept.

So therefore by the same token you cannot argue that the £68m had been converted because it hasn't yet.

I didn't but we will find out tomorrow.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foot ... s-10885330

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Mike, at this moment theirs are promises not actioned.

I hope they turn into action and are fully actioned.

Then and only then will Tan will have kept his promise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Mike, at this moment they are promises not actioned.

I hope they turn into action and are fully actioned.

Then and only then will Tan will have kept his promise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Typical response from you Wez.

What do you find boring or not factually correct in my response to Mike ?

I absolutely believe VT with his promise to both convert the £68m owed to him into equity immediately and, in my opinion, it beggars belief that anyone can doubt his sincerity in this matter.

Throughout his time as owner of the club he has promised to do this "When the time is right" and in that respect the meaning being when the Sam Hamman debt was sorted out. Notice here that I refer to SH and not Langston as it would be unreasonable for VT to carryout converting his debt to equity because as a shareholder that act would have placed him behind SH in any liquidation situation.

Now that "The luckiest man in the world" has his money back the situation exist where it is reasonable for VT to make a massive debt to equity conversion. I for one thank him from the bottom of my heart as in a single stroke he has done more for this club than any previous owner has in the 52 years I have been watching the Bluebirds.

At the time of the rebrand he promised many things including making the club "Virtually" debt free, whatever than means, but in his original statement regarding the rebrand once this debt to equity is done only the training ground will remain outstanding and that is currently going through the planning process.

I'm no accountant but I believe following this debt to equity conversion the assets of the business are higher than the liabilities so doesn't that mean the balance sheet will show the business to be "Debt Free". That maybe a simple way to look at this but I would love CCFCSINCE62 to give me his view on this.

If I'm right surely VT has actually already kept his promise.

If it does not happen now carl after whats been said it will only damage the club and what people think of him even more surely tans not that stupid

I believe Langston were to be paid £5m within 30 days? If my memory is right the agreement was struck on 26th January meaning 19 days have past leaving another 11 days before any promises have been broken. Vinney has always maintained that the debt to equity will happen once Langston have been paid off.

Personally having not settled a bill of £5m recently I'm not sure what is involved in transferring such a large amount of cash. I assume that is the reason for some of the delay or it's the old trick of paying bills at the last moment so you benefit from the interests rather than the recipient.

Moving on becoming debt free is just the start as we have to trade profitably from now on due to FFP. it is more vital now than ever before to get bums on seats at CCS so we can boost revenue just to stay competitive in the Championship. That is why it is so important that the mistakes of the past are forgiven and we move on together to make a success of this brilliant club.

Spot on Carl, after many broken promises I won't be applauding him until it's actually been done.

The ball is now in his court to follow through on those promises, again.

I absolutely believe VT with his promise to both convert the £68m owed to him into equity immediately and, in my opinion, it beggars belief that anyone can doubt his sincerity in this matter.

Throughout his time as owner of the club he has promised to do this "When the time is right" and in that respect the meaning being when the Sam Hamman debt was sorted out. Notice here that I refer to SH and not Langston as it would be unreasonable for VT to carryout converting his debt to equity because as a shareholder that act would have placed him behind SH in any liquidation situation.

Now that "The luckiest man in the world" has his money back the situation exist where it is reasonable for VT to make a massive debt to equity conversion. I for one thank him from the bottom of my heart as in a single stroke he has done more for this club than any previous owner has in the 52 years I have been watching the Bluebirds.

At the time of the rebrand he promised many things including making the club "Virtually" debt free, whatever than means, but in his original statement regarding the rebrand once this debt to equity is done only the training ground will remain outstanding and that is currently going through the planning process.

I'm no accountant but I believe following this debt to equity conversion the assets of the business are higher than the liabilities so doesn't that mean the balance sheet will show the business to be "Debt Free". That maybe a simple way to look at this but I would love CCFCSINCE62 to give me his view on this.

If I'm right surely VT has actually already kept his promise.

After the debt to equity exchange of £68m our assets should exceed our debts.
For the first time in many many years.
However we will only be 'debt free' when the £40m is converted and even then we will have ongoing , normal trading debts, like money owed on transfers and trade creditors.

We will also owe Dalman £6-£8m which he has loaned the club.

What this all means is that the club now has a much better chance of being sold or at least not going out of existence of Tan pulls out.

It does seem to signal that he's not going to lend the club significant amounts in the near future ( otherwise the debt would grow again), but surely we can't complain about that.

Look forward to more 'long shot' signings and mid table mediocrity

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Mike, at this moment they are promises not actioned.

I hope they turn into action and are fully actioned.

Then and only then will Tan will have kept his promise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Typical response from you Wez.

What do you find boring or not factually correct in my response to Mike ?

Another negative post by you ,club bashing as normal

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Mike, at this moment they are promises not actioned.

I hope they turn into action and are fully actioned.

Then and only then will Tan will have kept his promise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Typical response from you Wez.

What do you find boring or not factually correct in my response to Mike ?

Another negative post by you ,club bashing as normal

I don't know Carl, but I can't see where he is club bashing. As far as I can see he has just stated some obvious facts. We all hope that Tan's announcement comes to fruition, but as the poster says. we've been here plenty of times before only to be let down. Understandable to treat anything that comes out of the club with caution.

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Mike, at this moment they are promises not actioned.

I hope they turn into action and are fully actioned.

Then and only then will Tan will have kept his promise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Typical response from you Wez.

What do you find boring or not factually correct in my response to Mike ?

Another negative post by you ,club bashing as normal

And that response shows exactly that it is you with an agenda and either not reading what I have written or simply don't understand what has been written.

Tan has kept his promise

Actions speak louder than words

Mike, at this moment they are promises not actioned.

I hope they turn into action and are fully actioned.

Then and only then will Tan will have kept his promise.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Typical response from you Wez.

What do you find boring or not factually correct in my response to Mike ?

Another negative post by you ,club bashing as normal

I don't know Carl, but I can't see where he is club bashing. As far as I can see he has just stated some obvious facts. We all hope that Tan's announcement comes to fruition, but as the poster says. we've been here plenty of times before only to be let down. Understandable to treat anything that comes out of the club with caution.

It beggars belief that it can be construed as club bashing.

Carl, when the accounts become public tomorrow cardiff city will show an operating profit for the first time in my lifetime of following the club, (43 years) and within the next month the lying toe rag (hammam) will be paid off along with another £68 million, i then look forward to you coming on here to start another thread praising the owner.

The quicker the money is in Sams account and you all get a few gifts for services rendered the better....

Tan will back up his promise this time the way he came across in his interview.

I'll not get too excited util it's actually paid off.

But it could be a whole lot worse - Hammam could still be here & have him saying it. Then you'd know it was lies.

The quicker the money is in Sams account and you all get a few gifts for services rendered the better....

We just had a pm,uve asked for this to be removed yes