" OVER 9 MILLION "

World war 1 finished in 1918. If Hamas came about in the 80s then then it's a bit more than 20/25 years as you are pointing out mistakes.

Obviously, i meant WW2, as it started in 1946, as I'm sure you're aware. Regardless, I'm still waiting for the actual retort to all the factual points made beforehand. In the space of 20-25 years Palestinian land went from roughly all of it to less than 20%. Hamas was a response to that. The actions of Israel are the causitive factors in the very existence of Hamas in the first place.

Kid? I'm a 35 year old Sgt in the Royal Air Force. Don't patronise me.

Patronise you? Grow up you sensitive soul.

Why you felt the need to tell me your age and occupation I don't know. I couldn't care less.

Because you called me kid when I am not.

Anyway to retort your points. You could have been talking about after World War 1 as in 1922 there was a Mandate of Palestine which is pretty much the only legal document that stands due to the Arab refusal to acknowledge the state of Israel. israel are developing on land they own according to this framework. It is not a land grab. It is not a Jew/Arab thing as they are also building homes for Arabs in the neighbourhood of Arav al-Swahara in Jerusalem. They are also developing barren land that is useless until the Israeli's make something of it. Which they have been doing with much of the land they utilise. The West Bank is also predominantly unclaimed land. Left over from wars started by Israel's Arab neighbours but finished by Israel. Their land has grown much as happens after wars.

Where do you get 1946 from? Israel was created in 1948 on a mandate from the UN in 1947. You also contradict yourself by disregarding dates that Jews owned the land but using dates for your argument that back it up. You can't have it both ways 'kid'.
If you intend to get credibility you need to be correct. It is not 20/25 years from end of World War 2 to the 80s.

Although it can be argued Israeli responses to attacks by Hamas and Hezbollah are disproportionate. They wouldn't occur if Israeli civilians weren't targetted indiscriminately by rockets. Hamas has been around since the 80s but many more preceded since the 60s. This included Black September who killed Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972. No wonder the Israelis are tired of it. They quite rightly target these terrorist groups who put innocents in the way as human shields. They are the bad guys here.

There have been numerous solutions presented. The Oslo accords being the most notable where Israel ceded much to the Palestinians and where a two state solution was finally proposed and looked realistic. It fell apart as it always does as Arabs have no intention to share with Israel.

I do not dislike Muslims. As I said when done properly Islam is a beautiful religion. Unfortunately there are many who have a warped sense of what Islam is and feel they need to spread this around the world even to those who don't want it. We are no better. We spread democracy and force it on those who don't want it. This often causes more trouble than it is worth. Our foreign policy of late has been ridiculous. We have no idea what we are doing and is a failing of Cameron and his party. We are far from perfect as proven by the IRA on our doorstep. See how the UK was with a few years of terrorism (now extended by the threat from Muslim extremism). Israel has faced that for generations.

great post that.

Cheers

And several thousand Palastinians blew themselves up in a mass celebration of Wales beating the might of the Middle east.

And several thousand Palastinians blew themselves up in a mass celebration of Wales beating the might of the Middle east.

I knew it.

It's very complicated. Unfortunately some seem to have a very one-sided, simplistic view.

It's very complicated. Unfortunately some seem to have a very one-sided, simplistic view.

Massively complicated. I hate how the left are completely 100% anti Israel. There are bad eggs within Israel but the only enemy Israel have is the Arabs who want them wiped off the map, no ifs no buts gone. On the flip side the extreme side of Islam hate anyone who is free. That is what Israel are up against.

No response from blueminati

Cheering on Wales to beat Israel
Over 3 Million Welsh
and 6 Million Palestinians

I'm sure the Palestinians love us British too Annis.

They love all the West. Weren't they cheering in the streets after September 11th?

Palestinian people are some of the nicest people I have met. Please don't confused Palestinians with extremists they have and the lack of peaceful and viable leadership of Hamas.

As an aside, fantastic Universities in Palestine. Best in the region that produces world experts.

Unfortunately that is the problem. The extremists ruin it for the peace loving ones. Although in Palestine the people voted in Hamas who are the extremists so to be fair they have seen themselves off.

FRom what i understand palestine is basically now split into 2 different countries -gaza -the people there have voted in "hamas " who are religious & regard such things as music schools un islamic & the seperate state in the west bank who voted for fatah" the non religious group who were basically the old PLO(palestinion liberation organisation-who bommed the f**k out of the israeli`s in the munich olympics a good few years ago under yassar arafat. )since then fatah have agreed to an israeli state to exist alongside a palestine state where palestinians can worship whoever they wish (yassah arafats wife was a christian by the way) but in gazza there is strict islamic type rule -no music,alchohol etc etc . its a very shit part of the world which i`m glad i dont live in .

THERES YOUR FACTS IN 2014

" WORSE THAN DISGRACEFUL/MASSACRED & ITS GETTING WORSE "
Link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156663

THERES YOUR FACTS IN 2014

" WORSE THAN DISGRACEFUL/MASSACRED & ITS GETTING WORSE "
Link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156663

A conflict started by Hamas.

More Muslims are killed by Muslims than any other religion.

THERES YOUR FACTS IN 2014

" WORSE THAN DISGRACEFUL/MASSACRED & ITS GETTING WORSE "
Link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156663

A conflict started by Hamas.

More Muslims are killed by Muslims than any other religion.

Neil,read the disgraceful facts and start being honest.

THERES YOUR FACTS IN 2014

" WORSE THAN DISGRACEFUL/MASSACRED & ITS GETTING WORSE "
Link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156663

A conflict started by Hamas.

More Muslims are killed by Muslims than any other religion.

Neil,read the disgraceful facts and start being honest.

I've said its horrendous but it's two ways Annis. 2,200 killed in the conflict started by Hamas. Weapons hidden near civilians, rocket launchers hidden near civilians. Of course the Guardian isn't going to tell you that. Left wing anti Semitic pile of shit.

THERES YOUR FACTS IN 2014

" WORSE THAN DISGRACEFUL/MASSACRED & ITS GETTING WORSE "
Link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156663

A conflict started by Hamas.

More Muslims are killed by Muslims than any other religion.

Neil,read the disgraceful facts and start being honest.

I've said its horrendous but it's two ways Annis. 2,200 killed in the conflict started by Hamas. Weapons hidden near civilians, rocket launchers hidden near civilians. Of course the Guardian isn't going to tell you that. Left wing anti Semitic pile of shit.

500,000 Palestinians moved from their homes

Neil, you can't now start blaming the Guardian, the facts are Israel are slaughtering thousands of innocent Palestinians and no matter which way you try to twist it,it's true.

My view is,The UN should be the ones sorting this out,not Israel.

THERES YOUR FACTS IN 2014

" WORSE THAN DISGRACEFUL/MASSACRED & ITS GETTING WORSE "
Link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156663

A conflict started by Hamas.

More Muslims are killed by Muslims than any other religion.

Neil,read the disgraceful facts and start being honest.

I've said its horrendous but it's two ways Annis. 2,200 killed in the conflict started by Hamas. Weapons hidden near civilians, rocket launchers hidden near civilians. Of course the Guardian isn't going to tell you that. Left wing anti Semitic pile of shit.

500,000 Palestinians moved from their homes

Neil, you can't now start blaming the Guardian, the facts are Israel are slaughtering thousands of innocent Palestinians and no matter which way you try to twist it,it's true.

My view is,The UN should be the ones sorting this out,not Israel.

The UN is toothless unfortunately.

THERES YOUR FACTS IN 2014

" WORSE THAN DISGRACEFUL/MASSACRED & ITS GETTING WORSE "
Link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=156663

A conflict started by Hamas.

More Muslims are killed by Muslims than any other religion.

Neil,read the disgraceful facts and start being honest.

I've said its horrendous but it's two ways Annis. 2,200 killed in the conflict started by Hamas. Weapons hidden near civilians, rocket launchers hidden near civilians. Of course the Guardian isn't going to tell you that. Left wing anti Semitic pile of shit.

500,000 Palestinians moved from their homes

Neil, you can't now start blaming the Guardian, the facts are Israel are slaughtering thousands of innocent Palestinians and no matter which way you try to twist it,it's true.

My view is,The UN should be the ones sorting this out,not Israel.

The UN is toothless unfortunately.

Neil and that is the main problem.

No response from blueminati

Yeah, you're talking about Barnett here, he's been posting shite on here since I registered.
Under various different names as well.