Updated ' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' UPDATED '

Keith Morgan further wrote


It is virtually impossible for our club to balance the books at Championship level due to the high level of fixed costs like stadium maintenance and depreciation,minimum staff costs etc even with a big cut in the playing budget.In our previous season at this level we lost over £30m. With this seasons £23m parachute payment we can cope , but it drops to £18m next season , then to two seasons of only £9m each.



' Cardiff City's Current Debt '


The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

If we make a loss this season Wez,that just means plain and simple were making a loss,it does not mean Tan is still funding us?

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

No Wez not at all it just says we are making a loss, not that Tan is funding a loss.

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

If we make a loss this season Wez,that just means plain and simple were making a loss,it does not mean Tan is still funding us?

Great minds and all that Annis

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

If we make a loss this season Wez,that just means plain and simple were making a loss,it does not mean Tan is still funding us?

but the money would have to come from somewhere ie tan ,bank overdraft or loans ?

Annis

Once the May 2014 accounts are available it will be far easier to estimate how much Vincent Tan is actually owed.The figures which he and the club board occasionally quote are widely different (as are the figures quoted by just VT alone from different press and media coverage).

The accounts will show what was actually owed as at 31 May , as agreed and signed off by the independent external auditors.They will also give useful clues as to how that figure will have changed between 31 May and the date they were formally signed off (should have been last month to comply with
League rules)

Annis

Once the May 2014 accounts are available it will be far easier to estimate how much Vincent Tan is actually owed.The figures which he and the club board occasionally quote are widely different (as are the figures quoted by just VT alone from different press and media coverage).

The accounts will show what was actually owed as at 31 May , as agreed and signed off by the independent external auditors.They will also give useful clues as to how that figure will have changed between 31 May and the date they were formally signed off (should have been last month to comply with
League rules)

Cheers Keith,very much appreciated

So we are a month late already.

Annis

Once the May 2014 accounts are available it will be far easier to estimate how much Vincent Tan is actually owed.The figures which he and the club board occasionally quote are widely different (as are the figures quoted by just VT alone from different press and media coverage).

The accounts will show what was actually owed as at 31 May , as agreed and signed off by the independent external auditors.They will also give useful clues as to how that figure will have changed between 31 May and the date they were formally signed off (should have been last month to comply with
League rules)

Cheers Keith,very much appreciated

So we are a month late already.

No.The club don't yet legally have to file them at Companies House.The 1December deadline is for filing them with the League so they can check if the club has complied with FFP

Annis

Once the May 2014 accounts are available it will be far easier to estimate how much Vincent Tan is actually owed.The figures which he and the club board occasionally quote are widely different (as are the figures quoted by just VT alone from different press and media coverage).

The accounts will show what was actually owed as at 31 May , as agreed and signed off by the independent external auditors.They will also give useful clues as to how that figure will have changed between 31 May and the date they were formally signed off (should have been last month to comply with
League rules)

Cheers Keith,very much appreciated

So we are a month late already.

No.The club don't yet legally have to file them at Companies House.The 1December deadline is for filing them with the League so they can check if the club has complied with FFP

Cheers

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

If we make a loss this season Wez,that just means plain and simple were making a loss,it does not mean Tan is still funding us?

but the money would have to come from somewhere ie tan ,bank overdraft or loans ?

well on the basis that tan is not propping us up anymore, one must asume that any loss from now on acrude by club is clubs debt and tan will not be paying it when or if he leaves?? ahhh well out of the frying pan comes to mind?

or are people assuming tan will convert this as well if he does convert!

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

If we make a loss this season Wez,that just means plain and simple were making a loss,it does not mean Tan is still funding us?

but the money would have to come from somewhere ie tan ,bank overdraft or loans ?

well on the basis that tan is not propping us up anymore, one must asume that any loss from now on acrude by club is clubs debt and tan will not be paying it when or if he leaves?? ahhh well out of the frying pan comes to mind?

or are people assuming tan will convert this as well if he does convert!

the club cant print money so it has to come from somewhere

' UPDATED '

Keith Morgan further wrote


It is virtually impossible for our club to balance the books at Championship level due to the high level of fixed costs like stadium maintenance and depreciation,minimum staff costs etc even with a big cut in the playing budget.In our previous season at this level we lost over £30m. With this seasons £23m parachute payment we can cope , but it drops to £18m next season , then to two seasons of only £9m each.

Thanks to our Accountant Keith Morgan who has just posted this on our forum.

Hopefully this can answer many of our fans questions regarding city's Debt.

Also Tan called to make the Debt Equity as Promised
link
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=151604


' Cardiff City's Current Debt '

The debt due to Vincent Tan is very clearly debt .It does not become so only when he or his executors (should he die)demands repayment of it. The only way it ceases to be debt is if either waives the debt or converts it into shares.

Cardiff City Football Club (Holdings) Limited made a profit while in the Premier League(I expect it to be in the range
£10m to £15m when the May 2014 accounts are published).But it will make a loss this season(depending on cup runs and league attendances probably between £3m and £5m).This is due to the loss of Sky TV income and it's replacement by a far lower parachute payment.

A conversion of debt into shares makes no difference to the FFP compliance provided the club stays within the allowed annual loss figure,which was recently substantially increased to £13m a season

Keith

so if we are making a loss this season as stated by Keith must mean that tan is still funding the club but a post last night says he's not ? I dont belive we will make a loss this season tho

If we make a loss this season Wez,that just means plain and simple were making a loss,it does not mean Tan is still funding us?

but the money would have to come from somewhere ie tan ,bank overdraft or loans ?

well on the basis that tan is not propping us up anymore, one must asume that any loss from now on acrude by club is clubs debt and tan will not be paying it when or if he leaves?? ahhh well out of the frying pan comes to mind?

or are people assuming tan will convert this as well if he does convert!

the club cant print money so it has to come from somewhere

thats the point! where are the losses going to if not tan? as people on here have quoted tan as saying hes not propping club up anymore! mmmmm intreaguing

or how about the losses has now stopped and we are living within our means .
or is that thought no good for the agendas of this board
maybe this seasons losses have been accrued already but tan has put things into place to ensure no more losses this season hence him no longer propping up our finances

or how about the losses has now stopped and we are living within our means .
or is that thought no good for the agendas of this board
maybe this seasons losses have been accrued already but tan has put things into place to ensure no more losses this season hence him no longer propping up our finances

Vinnie, 4 years to late

Around 3 months after spending 9million on just centre backs, presumably handing out lucrative contracts to the pair + other expensive acquisitions such as Le Fondre et al, Cardiff City decide to reign in the overspending as the owner had to concede Ole didn't have a clue what he was doing.

So I will say it again,until Tan turns the debt he has mostly created in to equity,Cardiff City are in debt.