' Trust calls for debt to equity '

' Trust calls for debt to equity '

' Tan the only creditor now '

Wednesday 17th 2014

Cardiff City Supporters Trust have now called on Tan to fulfil his pledge to convert all his loans into shares and leave the club debt free.

Cardiff City’s Malaysian owner Vincent Tan has paid off a string of the club’s historic creditors – consolidating his control of the club, it has emerged.

Secured debts that have hung over Cardiff City since the building of the club’s new stadium and its credit-fuelled player purchases under former chairman Peter Ridsdale have formally been resolved.

The swathe of repayments leave Malaysian tycoon Mr Tan as the only creditor with any legal claim over the club’s assets, apart from the city council.

It finally lays to rest an era in which the club built up significant debts to a wide range of businesses and other creditors who were given legal claims over the club’s property.

The club is understood to see the debt repayments as part of the owner’s longstanding commitment to sorting out its debts.

he repayments were all made several months ago but were only made public yesterday when the legal claims on the club’s property were formally lifted with papers filed with the UK’s business registry Companies House.

Cardiff City Supporters Trust welcomed the confirmation that the debts had been repaid but expressed concerned that the overall debt level remained the same.

Supporters Trust board member Keith Morgan called on Mr Tan to fulfil his pledge to convert all his loans into shares and leave the club debt free.

The most significant of the debts that have been repaid was to the company that built the Cardiff City Stadium, former club director Paul Guy’s firm PMG.

After the stadium’s build was complete, the club still owed Mr Guy’s firm £8.7m and he was given the status of a secured creditor with separate legal claims on its assets and receivables – money it was due in cash.

It is understood that Mr Guy’s debts were repaid before the end of the last financial year and the repayments will be detailed in the club’s latest accounts due to be published early in the New Year.

The papers filed with Companies House also show that former footballer-turned-entrepreneur Ray Ranson’s claim on the club has finally been lifted.

Mr Ranson loaned the club £2.5m under former chairman Peter Ridsdale at what was initially a punishing interest rate of 50% in its first year.

The two other firms whose claims on Cardiff City have been lifted are the mysterious firms Erskine Finance and Edgedale International.

It was first revealed in July 2010 that Erskine Finance, which is registered in the Caribbean island of Tortola in the British Virgin Islands, had been given the status of a secured creditor.

The people behind Erskine Finance have never been made public and the club’s only published parent company is called Ensol (Singapore) Pte ltd.

Edgedale International is also registered in the British Virgin Islands and has the same parent company Ensol (Singapore) Pte ltd. Its claim on Cardiff City dates back to September 2010.

Resolving all the historic debts would suggest the total debt the club owes to Mr Tan has grown significantly.

At the time the club’s most recent accounts were published, the amount owed to Mr Tan was £66m out of a total debt pile of £118m.

Yet in interviews earlier this year, Mr Tan has suggested that the amount owed to him has risen to more than £120m and that he has put in up to £150m in total into the club.

Mr Morgan, of the Supporters Trust, said his greatest fear was that the club owed more than it could afford to repay.

He said: “The problem for the club, like any other legal entity, is that if the person who is owed money asks for it back, can they afford it?

“The amount that the club owes is something they cannot afford to repay.

“A key thing for the financial security of the company is to convert the debt into shares.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-owner-vincent-tan-8306378. Tan the only creditor now

Very interesting these phantom creditors Who used them? Mmmm anyway at least got a bit of clarity over debt! Just need tan to turn it into equity and better future than we have ever had?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-owner-vincent-tan-8306378. Tan the only creditor now

Very interesting these phantom creditors Who used them? Mmmm anyway at least got a bit of clarity over debt! Just need tan to turn it into equity and better future than we have ever had?

Nothin surprises me with risdale and co ,tan needs to convert all or at least part of the debt to a manageable level now

So now as promised over the last few years,on numerous occasions, Tan needs to keep to his word and change the Debt to Equity

So now as promised over the last few years,on numerous occasions, Tan needs to keep to his word and change the Debt to Equity

He does now

Trust can call all they want nothing will change.
Dictator will answer to nobody

My opinion is that us fans have no chance of vincent tan turning our club debt free and turning us back blue aswell.

Sadly i think it could be one or the other. Turn us debt free we will be red for the foreseeable future until tan leaves but if he turns us debt free he aint going anywhere for a very long time and we will be red for a very long time..

Or vincent tan turns us blue and just leaves the club with massive debts owed to him..

To ask for blue and a debt free club now we have no chance dont you think??

My opinion is that us fans have no chance of vincent tan turning our club debt free and turning us back blue aswell.

Sadly i think it could be one or the other. Turn us debt free we will be red for the foreseeable future until tan leaves but if he turns us debt free he aint going anywhere for a very long time and we will be red for a very long time..

Or vincent tan turns us blue and just leaves the club with massive debts owed to him..

To ask for blue and a debt free club now we have no chance dont you think??

the deal was red and rebrand for investment debt free and financial security ,he needs to do that now

My opinion is that us fans have no chance of vincent tan turning our club debt free and turning us back blue aswell.

Sadly i think it could be one or the other. Turn us debt free we will be red for the foreseeable future until tan leaves but if he turns us debt free he aint going anywhere for a very long time and we will be red for a very long time..

Or vincent tan turns us blue and just leaves the club with massive debts owed to him..

To ask for blue and a debt free club now we have no chance dont you think??

the deal was red and rebrand for investment debt free and financial security ,he needs to do that now

Yeh i know but why would he convert the debt to equity when no1 has accepted the rebrand now like he wanted. Us keeping our blue and and tan making us a debt free club wasnt the deal.

My opinion is that us fans have no chance of vincent tan turning our club debt free and turning us back blue aswell.

Sadly i think it could be one or the other. Turn us debt free we will be red for the foreseeable future until tan leaves but if he turns us debt free he aint going anywhere for a very long time and we will be red for a very long time..

Or vincent tan turns us blue and just leaves the club with massive debts owed to him..

To ask for blue and a debt free club now we have no chance dont you think??

the deal was red and rebrand for investment debt free and financial security ,he needs to do that now

Yeh i know but why would he convert the debt to equity when no1 has accepted the rebrand now like he wanted. Us keeping our blue and and tan making us a debt free club wasnt the deal.

good question as the people who are moaning the most about it have been most vocal against the rebrand ,I suppose we can't have it always

They are wasting their breath

why would Tan listen to half a dozen people

"Mr Ranson loaned the club £2.5m under former chairman Peter Ridsdale at what was initially a punishing interest rate of 50% in its first year."

Who in their right mind signed that crap. 50% interest in one year?!!?!?!.

It stinks.

The people calling for DTA obviously don't know what it is or indeed understand it. They are barking mad if they think Tan is going to wipe clear £120 million of debt for nothing. Barking.

The people calling for DTA obviously don't know what it is or indeed understand it. They are barking mad if they think Tan is going to wipe clear £120 million of debt for nothing. Barking.

He could partly do it for maybe the worth of parachute payments ,unless we are in the premier league he just isn't going to get his money back

The people calling for DTA obviously don't know what it is or indeed understand it. They are barking mad if they think Tan is going to wipe clear £120 million of debt for nothing. Barking.

He could partly do it for maybe the worth of parachute payments ,unless we are in the premier league he just isn't going to get his money back

'in the premiership' - you will be waiting a long time under the current set up and players!

keep the faith potta

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

I'm not sure but didn't Tan say that he would convert a "proportion" of the Debt to equity, not the full amount. Or have I missed something or remembered it wrongly ?

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

I'm not sure but didn't Tan say that he would convert a "proportion" of the Debt to equity, not the full amount. Or have I missed something or remembered it wrongly ?

He has put out so many statements, but the fact remains is I was in the room on 2 occasions when we were told by Allan Whitley/Waynash/Julian Jenkins all speaking on his behalf that Tan would make us DEBT FREE IN RETURN FOR THE REBRAND & INVEST IN CITY £100MILLION.

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

I'm not sure but didn't Tan say that he would convert a "proportion" of the Debt to equity, not the full amount. Or have I missed something or remembered it wrongly ?

He has put out so many statements, but the fact remains is I was in the room on 2 occasions when we were told by Allan Whitley/Waynash/Julian Jenkins all speaking on his behalf that Tan would make us DEBT FREE IN RETURN FOR THE REBRAND & INVEST IN CITY £100MILLION.

we are debt free ,we don't owe any money to anyone but the full owner of the club if you look at it in that way

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

I'm not sure but didn't Tan say that he would convert a "proportion" of the Debt to equity, not the full amount. Or have I missed something or remembered it wrongly ?

He has put out so many statements, but the fact remains is I was in the room on 2 occasions when we were told by Allan Whitley/Waynash/Julian Jenkins all speaking on his behalf that Tan would make us DEBT FREE IN RETURN FOR THE REBRAND & INVEST IN CITY £100MILLION.

we are debt free ,we don't owe any money to anyone but the full owner of the club if you look at it in that way

Come on Wez,I know how much u stick up for Tan,but he has lent us the money,until he does what he says and changes it to debt to equity,only then will we be Debt Free

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

I'm not sure but didn't Tan say that he would convert a "proportion" of the Debt to equity, not the full amount. Or have I missed something or remembered it wrongly ?

He has put out so many statements, but the fact remains is I was in the room on 2 occasions when we were told by Allan Whitley/Waynash/Julian Jenkins all speaking on his behalf that Tan would make us DEBT FREE IN RETURN FOR THE REBRAND & INVEST IN CITY £100MILLION.

Yes well in future we should all take what they say as a pinch of salt.

Lets just go back to then. The "talk" was £100m investment. If I recall right Tan had already put in £40m. So that left £60M investment.

From that £60M some would to to pay off Langston, some to build the stadium extension, some to build a training facility and some to build the squad for promotion.

That was the plan.

As far as I a concerned Tan needs ot convert £60m to equity. Even if he does that somehow we are still going to be well in debt which is all down to the management.

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

I'm not sure but didn't Tan say that he would convert a "proportion" of the Debt to equity, not the full amount. Or have I missed something or remembered it wrongly ?

He has put out so many statements, but the fact remains is I was in the room on 2 occasions when we were told by Allan Whitley/Waynash/Julian Jenkins all speaking on his behalf that Tan would make us DEBT FREE IN RETURN FOR THE REBRAND & INVEST IN CITY £100MILLION.

we are debt free ,we don't owe any money to anyone but the full owner of the club if you look at it in that way

Come on Wez,I know how much u stick up for Tan,but he has lent us the money,until he does what he says and changes it to debt to equity,only then will we be Debt Free

It only becomes a debt if he leaves and someone has to pay it back ,at the moment it's an investment in a business he owns ,we are debt free and with the posts on here last night we are now operating in profit ,it took Chelsea over 10 years to become not reliant on their owner ,the snags come if tan walks out and the new owner doesn't have to money to pay tan back

Financially we are in a much better position now than we have ever been in before. That may sound strange given that the level of debt is higher but, in my opinion, it is far riskier to owe money to several people than just one.

In the past, when I think we had a season ticket at the High Court in London , any of the smaller creditors could have wound us up (for a small amount of money) and several nearly did.

So now, with only one creditor, it does not really matter whether we are £80m in debt or £150m. The fact is that we could not immediately pay back either - so the actual amount is irrelevant.

The one issue I have is that we, as supporters, are asking someone to buy 100% of the shares in the club for £150m (or thereabouts) - but this is the very same guy as we have been trying to hound out for the last couple of years.

I just think there needs to be some realism here.

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

Annis, I may be reading this all wrong, but do you not think that Vincent Tan is quietly going about the business he promised to carry out when he first came?

Leaving the actual 'Rebrand' aside for a minute, the clearing of 'outside debt' (particularly to the likes of Ranson and PMG) simply HAS to be seen as a positive and just maybe the start of him (Tan) 'putting his house in order' prior to (a) getting the club on a self-sustaining path, which would be news we have all cried out for for o long), or (b) paving the way for him to leave the club when/if a new investor can be found

Either way, I see today's news as a positive move forward and look forward with interest to what Tan does next, as I simply cannot see why he would do what he has if he didn't have a 'plan' for the future

That is in no way defending or endorsing him. The guy is obviously an enigma and both confuses and frustrates the club's paying supporters in equal measures. But just maybe (maybe not) we are about to see him finally honour his original promises when creating the situation we currently find ourselves in

Financially we are in a much better position now than we have ever been in before. That may sound strange given that the level of debt is higher but, in my opinion, it is far riskier to owe money to several people than just one.

In the past, when I think we had a season ticket at the High Court in London , any of the smaller creditors could have wound us up (for a small amount of money) and several nearly did.

So now, with only one creditor, it does not really matter whether we are £80m in debt or £150m. The fact is that we could not immediately pay back either - so the actual amount is irrelevant.

The one issue I have is that we, as supporters, are asking someone to buy 100% of the shares in the club for £150m (or thereabouts) - but this is the very same guy as we have been trying to hound out for the last couple of years.

I just think there needs to be some realism here.

the good news is that last season and this season we have an operating profit

Not sure on the timing of this from the trust tbh, lets say Tan did the debt to equity tomorrow would the trust then distance themselves from any protests? If not then surely it makes them look a bit silly.

can anyone correct me if im wrogn but if tan converts debt to equity right now its a very bad thing and will leave us at risk of FFP breaches?

currently our outgoings are more than whats coming in and if it wasnt for tans montly input we would be breaching FFP. so by tan doing this and putting money it it classes as income and then we dont break the rules.

if tan was to convert it all then we would be fine for this year but then next year we would still be losing money each month and then tan would have to put his own money in further to keep us afloat but this time he would make nothig from it and would be like burning money, and if he didnt do it then we breach FFP

at least the way we are currently we are getting the most advantageous scenario for both club and from tan.

like i said unless i am wrong which is likely i am

So Tan is reneging on his promise to turn debt to equity eh. But supporters ( or the vast majority of them anyway ) are quite prepared to renege on accepting the red shirts in return for Tan saving us from administration and/or liquidation and spending money on new players. Can't see the difference myself.

MY OPINION/ WE ALREADY KNEW THIS,NOW TIME FOR DEBT TO EQUITY AS PROMISED

BBC

18th Dec 2014

Cardiff City: Vincent Tan clears club's historic debts

Cardiff City have confirmed that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of its historic debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debt also racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also now been resolved.
It means the amount of money owed to the Malaysian billionaire by Cardiff will rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils his commitment to "consolidate third party debt".

I'm not sure but didn't Tan say that he would convert a "proportion" of the Debt to equity, not the full amount. Or have I missed something or remembered it wrongly ?

He has put out so many statements, but the fact remains is I was in the room on 2 occasions when we were told by Allan Whitley/Waynash/Julian Jenkins all speaking on his behalf that Tan would make us DEBT FREE IN RETURN FOR THE REBRAND & INVEST IN CITY £100MILLION.

we are debt free ,we don't owe any money to anyone but the full owner of the club if you look at it in that way

Come on Wez,I know how much u stick up for Tan,but he has lent us the money,until he does what he says and changes it to debt to equity,only then will we be Debt Free

This is why I asked my question.

I have a feeling that Tan will say that the club now has no creditors other than himself and therefore he regards it as debt free. Particularly as the only people who have said this in company are those other than Tan !!

It's a spin but you can see it coming and, technically many companies would regard theselves as debt free as long as they only owed their owner.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out but I would be amazed in their was a full conversion to equity.