' independence Scotland Yes or No? '

This is all labours fault.....

There was a time when labour MP's were hard working trade unionists who had some character and made it through the ranks. Or a bright lad that made it through his mother and fathers hard graft, in the steel mills,factories or mines. Now they are middle class nobodies who have never worked in thier life drafted into a safe seat.

I live in Miskin, so somehow I am in Pontypridd. I liked kim Howells, too left wing in his younger days, but understood the hardships of life. Now look at the clown we have or the one representing the Rhondda- Do they represent the people of the area, do you feel they understand our life........ Do they Fcuk

The liberal middle class "I know best" have ethnically cleansed the working class out of the labour party. In Scotland with the SNP not messing things up excelerated the decline of labour, regionallly and nationally.

Good post.
People also have a go at the Senedd for being inefficient, well it's not the institution's fault it's the Labour clowns running it.

I quite agree with you there are far to many 'career politicians' out there. Some even decide which party to join depending on the seat they can win not on political principle! For me there is only one party where the members join because of their beliefs and their wish to serve Wales and that's Plaid. Like it or not they are the only party that put the interest of Wales first just like the SNP in Scotland.

And its a yes from me.

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

the logic is flawed anyway...but wouldn't this be a good excuse to cut ties from england?

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

the logic is flawed anyway...but wouldn't this be a good excuse to cut ties from england?

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together

Do you know one of the best things about independence is that our youth wouldn't have to fight in England's wars. Too many brave young lives have been lost!

This is all labours fault.....

There was a time when labour MP's were hard working trade unionists who had some character and made it through the ranks. Or a bright lad that made it through his mother and fathers hard graft, in the steel mills,factories or mines. Now they are middle class nobodies who have never worked in thier life drafted into a safe seat.

I live in Miskin, so somehow I am in Pontypridd. I liked kim Howells, too left wing in his younger days, but understood the hardships of life. Now look at the clown we have or the one representing the Rhondda- Do they represent the people of the area, do you feel they understand our life........ Do they Fcuk

The liberal middle class "I know best" have ethnically cleansed the working class out of the labour party. In Scotland with the SNP not messing things up excelerated the decline of labour, regionallly and nationally.

Well said to many middle class MP'S who have never worked in a real job,they are usually but not exclusively political researchers & this is not a real job.

For Wales to become independant & a successful & united country the transport system needs major investment.

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together[/quote]

Do you know one of the best things about independence is that our youth wouldn't have to fight in England's wars. Too many brave young lives have been lost![/quote]

English wars ? World war 1 and 2 were not caused by England.

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together

Do you know one of the best things about independence is that our youth wouldn't have to fight in England's wars. Too many brave young lives have been lost![/quote]

English wars ? World war 1 and 2 were not caused by England.[/quote]

As you say they were 'World' Wars.

all a bit dodgy.. if i was a born scot living in england or abroad,, i would be very upset, not being allowed to vote.. and has for 16 year olds voting.. that is because they will vote with their heart instead of their brains.... as for wales being independant.. I live in blaenau gwent.. cant imagine giving that lot more money and power..they cant find pockets deep enough now for their backhanders

This is all labours fault.....

There was a time when labour MP's were hard working trade unionists who had some character and made it through the ranks. Or a bright lad that made it through his mother and fathers hard graft, in the steel mills,factories or mines. Now they are middle class nobodies who have never worked in thier life drafted into a safe seat.

I live in Miskin, so somehow I am in Pontypridd. I liked kim Howells, too left wing in his younger days, but understood the hardships of life. Now look at the clown we have or the one representing the Rhondda- Do they represent the people of the area, do you feel they understand our life........ Do they Fcuk

The liberal middle class "I know best" have ethnically cleansed the working class out of the labour party. In Scotland with the SNP not messing things up excelerated the decline of labour, regionallly and nationally.

Good post.
People also have a go at the Senedd for being inefficient, well it's not the institution's fault it's the Labour clowns running it.

I quite agree with you there are far to many 'career politicians' out there. Some even decide which party to join depending on the seat they can win not on political principle! For me there is only one party where the members join because of their beliefs and their wish to serve Wales and that's Plaid. Like it or not they are the only party that put the interest of Wales first just like the SNP in Scotland.

Agree it's become the gravy train for labour, just look at kinnocks son who now what's to represent aberavon.. Did he ever play on the beach there or work in local industries or did he grow up in the south east?

Market forces will run this vote from now on in

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

How is the Welsh language being forced down our throats?

A big no from me.
The UK is a force to be recognized but England, Wales, Scotland and N Ireland would be nothing when standing alone. Fact.

Scottish Independence Referendum: Warning of 'panic' in Welsh and English politics at prospect of a Yes vote win
Sep 09, 2014


Political commentators call for 'Welsh contingency plan' as race goes down to the wire


The Scottish independence vote's impact on Wales could be far bigger than first thought

Welsh political commentators have warned of the sense of crisis, drama and significance that has seized the political establishment in Wales and England as the Scottish independence referendum campaign enters its final stretch.

The warnings come as a new poll showed the contest is now neck-and-neck after a dramatic swing to support for a Yes vote.

And they follow a weekend surge in support for independence which has seen the pound slump to a 10-month low, while FTSE 100 companies, including Lloyds and the RBS, had billions wiped off their share values after a YouGov poll on Sunday became the first to show the Yes campaign in the lead.

Geraint Talfan Davies, a co-founder of the Institute of Welsh Affairs, said “panic” had taken grip and warned of the urgent need for a “Welsh contingency plan in the event of a Yes vote”.

This is all labours fault.....

There was a time when labour MP's were hard working trade unionists who had some character and made it through the ranks. Or a bright lad that made it through his mother and fathers hard graft, in the steel mills,factories or mines. Now they are middle class nobodies who have never worked in thier life drafted into a safe seat.

I live in Miskin, so somehow I am in Pontypridd. I liked kim Howells, too left wing in his younger days, but understood the hardships of life. Now look at the clown we have or the one representing the Rhondda- Do they represent the people of the area, do you feel they understand our life........ Do they Fcuk

The liberal middle class "I know best" have ethnically cleansed the working class out of the labour party. In Scotland with the SNP not messing things up excelerated the decline of labour, regionallly and nationally.

Perhaps Labour doesn't have the trade union representation they used to because they reconstituted their party election system to one member one vote, and in South Wales where you comment there just aren't anymore thousands of strong unions from the NUM or the steelworks etc that there used to be.

To call it ethnically cleansed is silly, really, don't you think?

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

the logic is flawed anyway...but wouldn't this be a good excuse to cut ties from england?

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together

sorry, im really confused.

are you saying that, at the kremlin, in the war room, putin et al are sitting there, contemplating an attack on england...just about to push the button. Until they realise if they do that then they'd have big bad wales, scotland and NI to contend with? are you seriously suggesting that this would be a factor? If russia, Nkorea, Iran etc wanted to attack england, the state of the union wouldn't make a blind bit of difference i'm afraid.

for what its worth, i truely believe we are in a constant stalemate with other nuclear powers and, without wishing to tempt fate, i'd be surprised if you see an atomic wepon launched in our lifetime

I am all against breaking the union ... however in the even of it happening how would it affect us?? I dont mean from the perspective of a rise of push for Welsh independence. I mean in real terms how would we be affected?

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

the logic is flawed anyway...but wouldn't this be a good excuse to cut ties from england?

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together

sorry, im really confused.

are you saying that, at the kremlin, in the war room, putin et al are sitting there, contemplating an attack on england...just about to push the button. Until they realise if they do that then they'd have big bad wales, scotland and NI to contend with? are you seriously suggesting that this would be a factor? If russia, Nkorea, Iran etc wanted to attack england, the state of the union wouldn't make a blind bit of difference i'm afraid.

for what its worth, i truely believe we are in a constant stalemate with other nuclear powers and, without wishing to tempt fate, i'd be surprised if you see an atomic wepon launched in our lifetime

Wellington deliberately positioned his Scottish and Irish troops where there would be the most close quarter fighting - Napoleon couldn't handle the carnage with the strongest army in the world.

Admittedly this is 200 years ago , but for me I'd prefer to have them on the inside looking out, rather than on the outside looking in.

We are part of a whole - I am Welsh, but I feel British too, and that includes the Scots, even the miserable bastards that they are

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

the logic is flawed anyway...but wouldn't this be a good excuse to cut ties from england?

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together

sorry, im really confused.

are you saying that, at the kremlin, in the war room, putin et al are sitting there, contemplating an attack on england...just about to push the button. Until they realise if they do that then they'd have big bad wales, scotland and NI to contend with? are you seriously suggesting that this would be a factor? If russia, Nkorea, Iran etc wanted to attack england, the state of the union wouldn't make a blind bit of difference i'm afraid.

for what its worth, i truely believe we are in a constant stalemate with other nuclear powers and, without wishing to tempt fate, i'd be surprised if you see an atomic wepon launched in our lifetime

Wellington deliberately positioned his Scottish and Irish troops where there would be the most close quarter fighting - Napoleon couldn't handle the carnage with the strongest army in the world.

Admittedly this is 200 years ago , but for me I'd prefer to have them on the inside looking out, rather than on the outside looking in.

We are part of a whole - I am Welsh, but I feel British too, and that includes the Scots, even the miserable bastards that they are

I think in this age technology will always trump manpower in a warzone. weather its big nuclear war or scrappy geurilla (sp) war. the numbers won't make too much difference.

i understand your point though

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

the logic is flawed anyway...but wouldn't this be a good excuse to cut ties from england?

Cannot see the flawed logic ?

So do you believe that if England was at war with Russia China North Korea and nuclear war broke out, we would be left alone ? No chance, even if we did not get attacked we would be part of the destruction anyway.

but a strong UK USA will put Russia Ect off attacking us in the first place.. stronger together

sorry, im really confused.

are you saying that, at the kremlin, in the war room, putin et al are sitting there, contemplating an attack on england...just about to push the button. Until they realise if they do that then they'd have big bad wales, scotland and NI to contend with? are you seriously suggesting that this would be a factor? If russia, Nkorea, Iran etc wanted to attack england, the state of the union wouldn't make a blind bit of difference i'm afraid.

for what its worth, i truely believe we are in a constant stalemate with other nuclear powers and, without wishing to tempt fate, i'd be surprised if you see an atomic wepon launched in our lifetime

Wellington deliberately positioned his Scottish and Irish troops where there would be the most close quarter fighting - Napoleon couldn't handle the carnage with the strongest army in the world.

Admittedly this is 200 years ago , but for me I'd prefer to have them on the inside looking out, rather than on the outside looking in.

We are part of a whole - I am Welsh, but I feel British too, and that includes the Scots, even the miserable bastards that they are

Wales isn't part of the union flag, so how can we consider our selfs to be part of it?

NO
and if Wales where to go independent then I will be moving over the border and making a little part of england welsh and my new home

100% YES
Only the Orange Bastards and Unionists want to keep it together
Scotland should go it alone and so should Wales
#VOTEYES

We are a United Kingdom, two World wars are testimony to that fact.

Spot on. Definite NO from me.

100% YES
Only the Orange Bastards and Unionists want to keep it together
Scotland should go it alone and so should Wales
#VOTEYES

Wake up mate. Wales would be nothing alone.
Football wise we would be playing the jacks, Newport and Wrexham in the welsh football league trying to qualify for the Welsh Premier League. Yippee to that

It's a yes for me. Things will never improve as they are, and I can't see them being any worse in an Independant Scotland but Inbelieve we should at least have the opportunity to try and improve them.

The UK is only the UK when it suits London. The wars were won in a different era. It's not the same place anymore. History can't be changed but futures can be made.

It's a yes for me. Things will never improve as they are, and I can't see them being any worse in an Independant Scotland but Inbelieve we should at least have the opportunity to try and improve them.

The UK is only the UK when it suits London. The wars were won in a different era. It's not the same place anymore. History can't be changed but futures can be made.

I appreciate what you say about it not being the same anymore, but in all honesty how do you genuinely think (a) Scotland can survive fiscally for any reasonable length of time, and (b) how the lives of working class Scots will be improved in the longer term?

I don't live in Scotland (I absolutely love the place and its people) yet all I can see is a longer-term future where the country cannot support itself

I am intrigued by the closeness of a vote I originally thought was simply to pamper Alex Salmond, "The man who would be King" (someone who comes across as being as "in it for my own ends" as any of the Westminster politicians) and I am genuinely interested in the views of a Scottish resident

Here's why
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsiVjvN5I74&app=desktop

Go for it Scotland

It's a yes for me. Things will never improve as they are, and I can't see them being any worse in an Independant Scotland but Inbelieve we should at least have the opportunity to try and improve them.

The UK is only the UK when it suits London. The wars were won in a different era. It's not the same place anymore. History can't be changed but futures can be made.

I appreciate what you say about it not being the same anymore, but in all honesty how do you genuinely think (a) Scotland can survive fiscally for any reasonable length of time, and (b) how the lives of working class Scots will be improved in the longer term?

I don't live in Scotland (I absolutely love the place and its people) yet all I can see is a longer-term future where the country cannot support itself

I am intrigued by the closeness of a vote I originally thought was simply to pamper Alex Salmond, "The man who would be King" (someone who comes across as being as "in it for my own ends" as any of the Westminster politicians) and I am genuinely interested in the views of a Scottish resident

Sven, I've cut & paste these answers below from a similar set of questions put to me. It took a long time for me to be convinced, I've read alot of material & had debates(sometimes heated!) with people supporting both sides. I now truly believe that this is our chance as a nation to prosper and create a better Scotland for our children & grandchildren.

Every week we hear how Scotland(as well as Wales & NI) costs them more to fund than it's worth yet they are desperate to keep us. They're even trying to bribe people with the promise of extra powers, a poor tactic given that postal voting has already begun. Anyway.......


Scotland has been a net contributor to the union for as long as records have been kept. Only twice in the last 32 years has it run at a deficit. The UK is far too centralized and the north/south divide has been growing year on year. Employers in London will pay anything up to 25% more for the same job elsewhere in the country. If you factor in inflation over the next 10/20/30/50/100 years, how can you counter that? The UK needs to deflate London, and under the current system that won't happen. Independence and eventually our own currency will allow us to no longer worry about the life and soul, and finances of the country being sucked south east.

As for Salmond, I believe he'll take a big step back if he can deliver this.

It's a yes for me. Things will never improve as they are, and I can't see them being any worse in an Independant Scotland but Inbelieve we should at least have the opportunity to try and improve them.

The UK is only the UK when it suits London. The wars were won in a different era. It's not the same place anymore. History can't be changed but futures can be made.

I appreciate what you say about it not being the same anymore, but in all honesty how do you genuinely think (a) Scotland can survive fiscally for any reasonable length of time, and (b) how the lives of working class Scots will be improved in the longer term?

I don't live in Scotland (I absolutely love the place and its people) yet all I can see is a longer-term future where the country cannot support itself

I am intrigued by the closeness of a vote I originally thought was simply to pamper Alex Salmond, "The man who would be King" (someone who comes across as being as "in it for my own ends" as any of the Westminster politicians) and I am genuinely interested in the views of a Scottish resident

Sven, I've cut & paste these answers below from a similar set of questions put to me. It took a long time for me to be convinced, I've read alot of material & had debates(sometimes heated!) with people supporting both sides. I now truly believe that this is our chance as a nation to prosper and create a better Scotland for our children & grandchildren.

Every week we hear how Scotland(as well as Wales & NI) costs them more to fund than it's worth yet they are desperate to keep us. They're even trying to bribe people with the promise of extra powers, a poor tactic given that postal voting has already begun. Anyway.......


Scotland has been a net contributor to the union for as long as records have been kept. Only twice in the last 32 years has it run at a deficit. The UK is far too centralized and the north/south divide has been growing year on year. Employers in London will pay anything up to 25% more for the same job elsewhere in the country. If you factor in inflation over the next 10/20/30/50/100 years, how can you counter that? The UK needs to deflate London, and under the current system that won't happen. Independence and eventually our own currency will allow us to no longer worry about the life and soul, and finances of the country being sucked south east.

Thanks, Paul. I appreciate you responding

It all fascinates me and I honestly believe there are unseen issues ahead when/if the "Yes" vote is successful, although I will concede that Scotland has a far far better chance of 'making it work' than Wales will ever have

Too close to call at the moment, but I think the UK Government have grossly under-estimated their own figures regarding 'how' the Scottish people will vote and that just might come back to haunt them!

I don't know Alex Salmond other than what I see/read in the media, but he does come across as an old-style union leader and I'm not so sure he would want to move away from the limelight so easily

Anyway, good luck with it all and may the Scottish people be listened to!

It's a yes for me. Things will never improve as they are, and I can't see them being any worse in an Independant Scotland but Inbelieve we should at least have the opportunity to try and improve them.

The UK is only the UK when it suits London. The wars were won in a different era. It's not the same place anymore. History can't be changed but futures can be made.

I appreciate what you say about it not being the same anymore, but in all honesty how do you genuinely think (a) Scotland can survive fiscally for any reasonable length of time, and (b) how the lives of working class Scots will be improved in the longer term?

I don't live in Scotland (I absolutely love the place and its people) yet all I can see is a longer-term future where the country cannot support itself

I am intrigued by the closeness of a vote I originally thought was simply to pamper Alex Salmond, "The man who would be King" (someone who comes across as being as "in it for my own ends" as any of the Westminster politicians) and I am genuinely interested in the views of a Scottish resident

Sven, I've cut & paste these answers below from a similar set of questions put to me. It took a long time for me to be convinced, I've read alot of material & had debates(sometimes heated!) with people supporting both sides. I now truly believe that this is our chance as a nation to prosper and create a better Scotland for our children & grandchildren.

Every week we hear how Scotland(as well as Wales & NI) costs them more to fund than it's worth yet they are desperate to keep us. They're even trying to bribe people with the promise of extra powers, a poor tactic given that postal voting has already begun. Anyway.......


Scotland has been a net contributor to the union for as long as records have been kept. Only twice in the last 32 years has it run at a deficit. The UK is far too centralized and the north/south divide has been growing year on year. Employers in London will pay anything up to 25% more for the same job elsewhere in the country. If you factor in inflation over the next 10/20/30/50/100 years, how can you counter that? The UK needs to deflate London, and under the current system that won't happen. Independence and eventually our own currency will allow us to no longer worry about the life and soul, and finances of the country being sucked south east.

Thanks, Paul. I appreciate you responding

It all fascinates me and I honestly believe there are unseen issues ahead when/if the "Yes" vote is successful, although I will concede that Scotland has a far far better chance of 'making it work' than Wales will ever have

Too close to call at the moment, but I think the UK Government have grossly under-estimated their own figures regarding 'how' the Scottish people will vote and that just might come back to haunt them!

I don't know Alex Salmond other than what I see/read in the media, but he does come across as an old-style union leader and I'm not so sure he would want to move away from the limelight so easily

Anyway, good luck with it all and may the Scottish people be listened to!

Always like a good debate mate!

I'm certain Salmond has said he will stand down once it's all done & dusted - I think that's only if the country votes Yes though.

I think the UK Government have made an arse of it and now the "three leaders" have rolled up it smacks of desperation. I can't see how David Cameron will convince anybody of anything at any time never mind at this stage of proceedings.

I suppose we'll live or fall by it but I don't want to be thinking "what if" in 25 years time & I don't want my son asking "why didn't you" either!