' independence Scotland Yes or No? '

I'm undecided, my questions are where in history has there been a record of another country running they're affairs better than themselves? I travel to Jersey regularly, use they're pound note as part of the Bank of England, yet Jersey has different tax and spend policies and not members of the EU, jersey is a great place to live and work what's the difference ?

Have you ever been to Scotland?? If you have, surely you can see a fairly major difference between that wet, cold, dark country and Jersey??

Would you vote for independence if Wales were in Scotland's shoes?

Would you want free of the Westminster Rule?

Due to residency rules I am eligible to vote and I am undecided.

What would you do?

Tony, I have watched hours and hours of programmes on it, read every paper as I love politics.
I dont want them to have independence as I am for Britain and us all together, but I can understand why many of them want it.

I cant stand Alex Salmond and I feel he is not genuine.

Worthy of a sticky as this is massive in the World, never mind UK, Spain are watching as there is a battle going on there as well.

So its a NO from me.

what's happening in Spain Annis?

Not Annis I know, but he may be referring to the Basque & Catalonia independence movements - Spain wants to keep them all in one country, some people in those regions want independence.

It's why Spain said that they would veto Scotland joining the EU as an independent country.

Scotland like Wales has suffered years of stripping resources and under investment. We've now reached the state where south east England is one of the richest areas in Europe while Wales is one of the poorest. You can't blame the WAG for that because all their money comes from London.
After Independence, Scotland would over night move from being the 18 richest country in the world to the 7th. It's a no brainer really.
One important issue here is that Scotland has it's own press and media while we in Wales depend on an London based press (even the Western Mail, Echo, Daily Post are part of the Mirror Group). That obviously accounts for many views on here, we are told what they want us to hear!

Wales can't even run it's own NHS for fucks sake and the WAG creates it's own black hole like Cardiff Airport. I wouldn't trust those cunts to run f**k all

I think you'll find that the NHS in Wales is in a far better state than England although the right wing English press will tell you otherwise, but they would wouldn't they.
As for Cardiff airport, don't blame the assembly, blame Labour they run the place. It's their policy. Time for a change don't you think?

Sorry but Labour have been in power of the WAG ever since it was first set-up and with the help of Plaid and the Lib Dems at different times so I will blame the WAG FFS and if you really think the NHS is better in Wales than England then you obviously haven't been following the current affairs for the last few yeas then have you!!!!

The Labour run WAG is blindly walking the people of Wales into a Communist state and the amount of propaganda which have come to nothing should have people seeing through them by now. Remember the electric pods which were going to go around Cardiff, the seaplanes which was going to take off from Cardiff Bay, they STILL haven't finished the A465 expansion, they spend a fortune on the Newport bypass project, then reject it and now it's back on the drawing board, then you had the seven barrage and f**k I could go on.

you could...but that would be nonsense too...

how exactly is wales becoming a communist state?

bare in mind i will not except answeres such as:
'if you cant see it then ffs your more blind than i thought!'
'it should be pretty obvious'
'know your history, its happening people'

seriously...genuine examples of how Wales is becoming a communist state, baring in mind that the gap between the rich and poor is greater than ever before and that businesses have far more sway over the WAG than they had ever had in the past

Would you vote for independence if Wales were in Scotland's shoes?

Would you want free of the Westminster Rule?

Due to residency rules I am eligible to vote and I am undecided.

What would you do?

Tony, I have watched hours and hours of programmes on it, read every paper as I love politics.
I dont want them to have independence as I am for Britain and us all together, but I can understand why many of them want it.

I cant stand Alex Salmond and I feel he is not genuine.

Worthy of a sticky as this is massive in the World, never mind UK, Spain are watching as there is a battle going on there as well.

So its a NO from me.

definite NO, I don't always like the British government but I wouldn't trust the Senedd with my password for this forum let alone any major decisions, bunch of corrupt, incompetent Neanderthals. They can't even provide a decent level of education.

And of course the Westminster politicians are not corrupt or incompetent at all......

The amount of Valley AMs who have second homes in Cardiff Bay and Penarth is a f*cking joke when thousands of people from the valleys have to travel to work every single day!!!! The two AMs which are married (Huw Lewis from Merthyr and Lynee Neagle from Torfean actually charged the WAG two separate mortgages for the one second home and doubled up in the fittings and furnishing yet the bastards are still there as the public like voting Labour like f*cking lemmings

you should force them out, you're quite good at that arent you?

Wales can't even run it's own NHS for fucks sake and the WAG creates it's own black hole like Cardiff Airport. I wouldn't trust those cunts to run f**k all

I think you'll find that the NHS in Wales is in a far better state than England although the right wing English press will tell you otherwise, but they would wouldn't they.
As for Cardiff airport, don't blame the assembly, blame Labour they run the place. It's their policy. Time for a change don't you think?

Sorry but Labour have been in power of the WAG ever since it was first set-up and with the help of Plaid and the Lib Dems at different times so I will blame the WAG FFS and if you really think the NHS is better in Wales than England then you obviously haven't been following the current affairs for the last few yeas then have you!!!!

The Labour run WAG is blindly walking the people of Wales into a Communist state and the amount of propaganda which have come to nothing should have people seeing through them by now. Remember the electric pods which were going to go around Cardiff, the seaplanes which was going to take off from Cardiff Bay, they STILL haven't finished the A465 expansion, they spend a fortune on the Newport bypass project, then reject it and now it's back on the drawing board, then you had the seven barrage and f**k I could go on.

you could...but that would be nonsense too...

how exactly is wales becoming a communist state?

bare in mind i will not except answeres such as:
'if you cant see it then ffs your more blind than i thought!'
'it should be pretty obvious'
'know your history, its happening people'

seriously...genuine examples of how Wales is becoming a communist state, baring in mind that the gap between the rich and poor is greater than ever before and that businesses have far more sway over the WAG than they had ever had in the past

Only Communist countries own their airports these days and the former Communist countries have since sold them off soon after freedom because they all realised that it was never a money maker when state run.

Also as a previous poster said mentioned, slowly the WAG are centralising everything and as Wales never votes for anyone else apart from Labour then it's more or less a one party state.

Wales can't even run it's own NHS for fucks sake and the WAG creates it's own black hole like Cardiff Airport. I wouldn't trust those cunts to run f**k all

I think you'll find that the NHS in Wales is in a far better state than England although the right wing English press will tell you otherwise, but they would wouldn't they.
As for Cardiff airport, don't blame the assembly, blame Labour they run the place. It's their policy. Time for a change don't you think?

Sorry but Labour have been in power of the WAG ever since it was first set-up and with the help of Plaid and the Lib Dems at different times so I will blame the WAG FFS and if you really think the NHS is better in Wales than England then you obviously haven't been following the current affairs for the last few yeas then have you!!!!

The Labour run WAG is blindly walking the people of Wales into a Communist state and the amount of propaganda which have come to nothing should have people seeing through them by now. Remember the electric pods which were going to go around Cardiff, the seaplanes which was going to take off from Cardiff Bay, they STILL haven't finished the A465 expansion, they spend a fortune on the Newport bypass project, then reject it and now it's back on the drawing board, then you had the seven barrage and f**k I could go on.

you could...but that would be nonsense too...

how exactly is wales becoming a communist state?

bare in mind i will not except answeres such as:
'if you cant see it then ffs your more blind than i thought!'
'it should be pretty obvious'
'know your history, its happening people'

seriously...genuine examples of how Wales is becoming a communist state, baring in mind that the gap between the rich and poor is greater than ever before and that businesses have far more sway over the WAG than they had ever had in the past

Only Communist countries own their airports these days and the former Communist countries have since sold them off soon after freedom because they all realised that it was never a money maker when state run.

Also as a previous poster said mentioned, slowly the WAG are centralising everything and as Wales never votes for anyone else apart from Labour then it's more or less a one party state.

But we are a democratic country. So, I suggest that you start campaigning to get rid of the Labour Government in the WAG.
That's how it works in a democracy. Wales never voted for a Tory government but we've had to suffer Thatcher, Cameron and countless others. Scotland have had enough of Governments they didn't vote for and are going for independence. The Tories never served Wales and sooner or later our people will realise that Labour doesn't either.

Strange one this.

I laughed at the suggestion that more than a third of Scots would vote for independance when this was first drawn up, but with the political elite in Westminster so out of touch, is it such a shot in the dark.

Bringing this back to CCFC, when I travelled to Wolves then a week later to Fulham it is surprising how much more atuned to London i am than Birmingham. How often I use heathrow and gatwick for international travel. We are pretty close to one of the most important cities in the world. Now the Jocks are a fair way from this, because its not independance from the UK they are selling, its London and Westminster..... Westminster i fully understand, London on the other hand is a big gamble.

Wales have had a union with England for nearly 500 years old....Back to Henry Viii, now thats a lot of history.... Its not even worth talking about independance. Most people i know would get rid of the assembly, waste of time

Strange one this.

I laughed at the suggestion that more than a third of Scots would vote for independance when this was first drawn up, but with the political elite in Westminster so out of touch, is it such a shot in the dark.

Bringing this back to CCFC, when I travelled to Wolves then a week later to Fulham it is surprising how much more atuned to London i am than Birmingham. How often I use heathrow and gatwick for international travel. We are pretty close to one of the most important cities in the world. Now the Jocks are a fair way from this, because its not independance from the UK they are selling, its London and Westminster..... Westminster i fully understand, London on the other hand is a big gamble.

Wales have had a union with England for nearly 500 years old....Back to Henry Viii, now thats a lot of history.... Its not even worth talking about independance. Most people i know would get rid of the assembly, waste of time

Great post 100% agree.

If it were up to me I would abolish the lot... just be British.... Independent Wales/Scotland who gives a shit.
"The Whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

The whole political landscape in the UK is rubbish and has been for a long time. What does an MP from SW Wales know about the Oil industry in Aberdeen. What does an MP in Chelsea/Kensington know about the NHS requirements in places like Merthyr. We have 650 MPs that look after us and half of them dont know what is going on in their own constituency never mind in another part of the country.

Scotland needs to look after its own interests and make decisions that effect them. Its perhaps a bit too early for Wales but, in years to come, I think Wales should do likewise.

So its a big YES from me.

Wales can't even run it's own NHS for fucks sake and the WAG creates it's own black hole like Cardiff Airport. I wouldn't trust those cunts to run f**k all

I think you'll find that the NHS in Wales is in a far better state than England although the right wing English press will tell you otherwise, but they would wouldn't they.
As for Cardiff airport, don't blame the assembly, blame Labour they run the place. It's their policy. Time for a change don't you think?

Sorry but Labour have been in power of the WAG ever since it was first set-up and with the help of Plaid and the Lib Dems at different times so I will blame the WAG FFS and if you really think the NHS is better in Wales than England then you obviously haven't been following the current affairs for the last few yeas then have you!!!!

The Labour run WAG is blindly walking the people of Wales into a Communist state and the amount of propaganda which have come to nothing should have people seeing through them by now. Remember the electric pods which were going to go around Cardiff, the seaplanes which was going to take off from Cardiff Bay, they STILL haven't finished the A465 expansion, they spend a fortune on the Newport bypass project, then reject it and now it's back on the drawing board, then you had the seven barrage and f**k I could go on.

you could...but that would be nonsense too...

how exactly is wales becoming a communist state?

bare in mind i will not except answeres such as:
'if you cant see it then ffs your more blind than i thought!'
'it should be pretty obvious'
'know your history, its happening people'

seriously...genuine examples of how Wales is becoming a communist state, baring in mind that the gap between the rich and poor is greater than ever before and that businesses have far more sway over the WAG than they had ever had in the past

Only Communist countries own their airports these days and the former Communist countries have since sold them off soon after freedom because they all realised that it was never a money maker when state run.

Also as a previous poster said mentioned, slowly the WAG are centralising everything and as Wales never votes for anyone else apart from Labour then it's more or less a one party state.

many american airports are state owned i believe (im sure washington state as one, and a quick google search shows aregan does too)

but this 'one party state' business is non-sense, laughable actually, to claim that a gov. which has had almost exclusively coalition governments since '99 is the gov of a 'single party state' is so ridiculous it hurts. I thought you were once involved in politics? seems like something you should know really. Once again you've been made to look like an idiot with your 'insights'

I'm undecided, my questions are where in history has there been a record of another country running they're affairs better than themselves? I travel to Jersey regularly, use they're pound note as part of the Bank of England, yet Jersey has different tax and spend policies and not members of the EU, jersey is a great place to live and work what's the difference ?

Have you ever been to Scotland?? If you have, surely you can see a fairly major difference between that wet, cold, dark country and Jersey??

Yes, been to Inverness in July beautiful place, clean and tidy with plenty going on! In fact weather was great and they use the pound on the same basis as Jersey.

A big YES for me.

Go for it Scotland! Might be a rocky road to start with but at least every decision that is made will be based on whats best for Scotland, not whats best for England/Britain.

too many moronic, unfactual posts supporting Welsh independence, would someone who has any inkling of history or business give me an actually good argument for our independence?

too many moronic, unfactual posts supporting Welsh independence, would someone who has any inkling of history or business give me an actually good argument for our independence?

playing devils advocate as i think we wouldn't be a suitable candidate for independence...but its been mentioned here many times that our population is consistently unrepresented in westminister (the current governments coalition parties consistently rank at 3rd and 4th in our assembley elections). For many, the fact that we are often governed by a party that less than a quater of us voted for is enough of a reason to want independence

Also we still have many natural resources and a large agricultural sector. this coupled with a large service industry (which at the right price could be a match for outsourcing to asia....dependent on the business needs of course...thats a whole other debate), and the fact the south wales tourism has increased significantly over the last 20 years.

all of these things combined COULD be an attrative proposition as an independent state.

saying all that, if it was our referendum, i'd be voting no

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

Bad for Scotland and the UK, more so for Scotland in the long run when the oil runs out.

we should stick together, we are a tiny but powerful island.

also look how Russia is acting and it may get worse, plus Iran and North Korea we need a strong country by sticking together.

Wales would simply not survive on its own. We have no real industry anymore, what would be the gain other than the nationalists being able to force the Welsh language down our throats even further.... Plus we would have to leave the English league and join the dreadful Welsh league.

the logic is flawed anyway...but wouldn't this be a good excuse to cut ties from england?

They can't just join the EU like that, first they would have to apply and then every country has to expect and the likelihood of the UK a citing is unlikely and Spain has also already said no. Then if they get that far they would have to wait five years to join. So what currency will they be using ?

i'd vote to keep the UK together, but if the scots vote otherwise good luck to them.

they wouldn't get the trickle down policies of our government which benefit london and big businesses. but they'd lose a lot of jobs to england and are probably better off in the UK as a result. plus practicality concerns regarding the currency (which the independence movement do not have a cast iron guarantee of what they will do) and mortgages / interest rates.

although its being debated purely on matters of money, and whether each household would be better or worse off after the vote, it should be more focused on the long term impact scotland governing itself.

too many moronic, unfactual posts supporting Welsh independence, would someone who has any inkling of history or business give me an actually good argument for our independence?

playing devils advocate as i think we wouldn't be a suitable candidate for independence...but its been mentioned here many times that our population is consistently unrepresented in westminister (the current governments coalition parties consistently rank at 3rd and 4th in our assembley elections). For many, the fact that we are often governed by a party that less than a quater of us voted for is enough of a reason to want independence

Also we still have many natural resources and a large agricultural sector. this coupled with a large service industry (which at the right price could be a match for outsourcing to asia....dependent on the business needs of course...thats a whole other debate), and the fact the south wales tourism has increased significantly over the last 20 years.

all of these things combined COULD be an attrative proposition as an independent state.

saying all that, if it was our referendum, i'd be voting no

hmm, good some fairer points. Feeling unrepresented is an argument used for hundred of years in the 'outlying' regions of the UK, look up the pilgrimage of grace, considering the cultural differences I would be in favour of federalism and greater devolution however I don't trust the people that the power would be handed to, they need to prove their competence. It would be wrong of us to have a disproportionate representation is Westminster too because then we have a large influence over England.

Our industry isn't as stable as people like to think, our redeeming qualities are the potential for renewable energy, increase in tourism because of our history (although we're competing with countries such as France to attract American and Asian tourists), developing cities and good natural customer friendliness. However we do NOT have any natural resources worthy of extraction when compared to the competition, this decline was inevitable in the face of globalisation and not the fault of England despite Thatcher handling the debacle horrendously.

Despite England royally cocking up the union with Ireland they've treated us in a mostly fair manner and until WAG can pull itself together to give us a standard of education at least on par with England I won't be willing to give them any more power and certainly never full independence unless Englands economy became significantly worse than ours.

too many moronic, unfactual posts supporting Welsh independence, would someone who has any inkling of history or business give me an actually good argument for our independence?

playing devils advocate as i think we wouldn't be a suitable candidate for independence...but its been mentioned here many times that our population is consistently unrepresented in westminister (the current governments coalition parties consistently rank at 3rd and 4th in our assembley elections). For many, the fact that we are often governed by a party that less than a quater of us voted for is enough of a reason to want independence

Also we still have many natural resources and a large agricultural sector. this coupled with a large service industry (which at the right price could be a match for outsourcing to asia....dependent on the business needs of course...thats a whole other debate), and the fact the south wales tourism has increased significantly over the last 20 years.

all of these things combined COULD be an attrative proposition as an independent state.

saying all that, if it was our referendum, i'd be voting no

hmm, good some fairer points. Feeling unrepresented is an argument used for hundred of years in the 'outlying' regions of the UK, look up the pilgrimage of grace, considering the cultural differences I would be in favour of federalism and greater devolution however I don't trust the people that the power would be handed to, they need to prove their competence. It would be wrong of us to have a disproportionate representation is Westminster too because then we have a large influence over England.

Our industry isn't as stable as people like to think, our redeeming qualities are the potential for renewable energy, increase in tourism because of our history (although we're competing with countries such as France to attract American and Asian tourists), developing cities and good natural customer friendliness. However we do NOT have any natural resources worthy of extraction when compared to the competition, this decline was inevitable in the face of globalisation and not the fault of England despite Thatcher handling the debacle horrendously.

Despite England royally cocking up the union with Ireland they've treated us in a mostly fair manner and until WAG can pull itself together to give us a standard of education at least on par with England I won't be willing to give them any more power and certainly never full independence unless Englands economy became significantly worse than ours.

Until the WAG is given tax making powers to raise their own money that can't happen. We live on handouts to the WAG from London and it's been proved that the Barnet formula that sets that amount is flawed against Wales.
So, with things as they are the only alternative is to elect a different government in Cardiff Bay. A government that will work for Wales and has Welsh interests at heart. Labour, I agree with you hasn't delivered for Wales on many issues and they must follow the London lead on so many issues.

Hoping for a "YES" but only if it means they have to take back Lorraine Kelly and Hazel Irving.

WITHOUT DOUBT NO We are the UNITED Kingdom

WITHOUT DOUBT NO We are the UNITED Kingdom

soooooo...you'd vote no based on our name?

Would you vote for independence if Wales were in Scotland's shoes?

Would you want free of the Westminster Rule?

Due to residency rules I am eligible to vote and I am undecided.

What would you do?

Tony, I have watched hours and hours of programmes on it, read every paper as I love politics.
I dont want them to have independence as I am for Britain and us all together, but I can understand why many of them want it.

I cant stand Alex Salmond and I feel he is not genuine.

Worthy of a sticky as this is massive in the World, never mind UK, Spain are watching as there is a battle going on there as well.

So its a NO from me.

Annis, did you steal my words there???? LOL

I couldn't have put it better!

An independent Scotland would be a drain on Europe and is far far better under the UK umbrella

Alex Salmond is an egotist, who only has "First Modern King of Scotland" on his mind and will do almost anything (I think his Granny is on eBay at the moment ) to achieve his selfish agenda!

To make matters worse, is that it will only encourage the 'Free Wales' movement and the thought of a truly 'independent' Wales should frighten the proverbial s*** out of people who really understand what Wales as a stand-alone nation can realistically offer in support of itself!

Just MY opinion, of course

no from me

This is all labours fault.....

There was a time when labour MP's were hard working trade unionists who had some character and made it through the ranks. Or a bright lad that made it through his mother and fathers hard graft, in the steel mills,factories or mines. Now they are middle class nobodies who have never worked in thier life drafted into a safe seat.

I live in Miskin, so somehow I am in Pontypridd. I liked kim Howells, too left wing in his younger days, but understood the hardships of life. Now look at the clown we have or the one representing the Rhondda- Do they represent the people of the area, do you feel they understand our life........ Do they Fcuk

The liberal middle class "I know best" have ethnically cleansed the working class out of the labour party. In Scotland with the SNP not messing things up excelerated the decline of labour, regionallly and nationally.

Would you vote for independence if Wales were in Scotland's shoes?

Would you want free of the Westminster Rule?

Due to residency rules I am eligible to vote and I am undecided.

What would you do?

Tony, I have watched hours and hours of programmes on it, read every paper as I love politics.
I dont want them to have independence as I am for Britain and us all together, but I can understand why many of them want it.

I cant stand Alex Salmond and I feel he is not genuine.

Worthy of a sticky as this is massive in the World, never mind UK, Spain are watching as there is a battle going on there as well.

So its a NO from me.

Annis, did you steal my words there???? LOL

I couldn't have put it better!

An independent Scotland would be a drain on Europe and is far far better under the UK umbrella

Alex Salmond is an egotist, who only has "First Modern King of Scotland" on his mind and will do almost anything (I think his Granny is on eBay at the moment ) to achieve his selfish agenda!

To make matters worse, is that it will only encourage the 'Free Wales' movement and the thought of a truly 'independent' Wales should frighten the proverbial s*** out of people who really understand what Wales as a stand-alone nation can realistically offer in support of itself!

Just MY opinion, of course

I totally agree on your description of Alex Salmond. He comes across as being very narcissistic, but there again, so do most politicians these days.

If it is a yes vote, then I bet the first thing he does is commission a statue of himself, & site it right up the top of the Royal Mile.

On a footballing point.....would we be able to play in the English pyramid system if Wales was independent?

On a footballing point.....would we be able to play in the English pyramid system if Wales was independent?

Unlikely, I would have thought. Our situation is pretty much unique.