Jacks not paying up

Swansea City: Utrecht 'owed money' over Michel Vorm transfer

Dutch side Utrecht have threatened to report Swansea City to Fifa over the Welsh club's sale of goalkeeper Michel Vorm to Tottenham.
The Eredivisie club say they have not received 30% of Vorm's transfer fee, which they claim was agreed as part of his deal to join Swansea in 2011.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Its the value of the swap deal, especially involving 2 players. Its almost impossible to break down. Spurs bought Davies and Vorm for a swap of Sigurdsson and £4 mill cash. So they could say they swapped Vorm who they valued at £7 mill for Sigurdsson who was worth similar mill and then sold Davies for £4 mill. So they technically wont then owe anything in terms of sell on %. Its why teams prefer to keep loaning a player out instead of selling them as they dont pay a sell on fee with a loan fee.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

Vorm was worth 3-4 million. If you can get away with it good luck.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

Vorm was worth 3-4 million. If you can get away with it good luck.

Time will tell I suppose, but like the other poster said.. these undisclosed swap deals are impossible to break down so I suspect we won't owe them a penny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

Vorm was worth 3-4 million. If you can get away with it good luck.

Time will tell I suppose, but like the other poster said.. these undisclosed swap deals are impossible to break down so I suspect we won't owe them a penny.

It's not right though is it. Particularly if it shafted a lower league club who rely on sell on clauses to remain afloat.

Ha Ha they are not going to get away with that, once a cheat always a cheat, going to get a fine on top as well

It is quite underhand. But thats football i guess. Villarreal dont want to sell De Guzman to Swansea for the same reason (sell on clause) so just loan him to them every year and pick up the loan fee which they arent obligated to pay any of to the club previous.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

Vorm was worth 3-4 million. If you can get away with it good luck.

Time will tell I suppose, but like the other poster said.. these undisclosed swap deals are impossible to break down so I suspect we won't owe them a penny.

It's not right though is it. Particularly if it shafted a lower league club who rely on sell on clauses to remain afloat.

If we've done anything illegal I'm sure we'll be made to pay up. Other than that, it's just business I'm afraid. Please tell me that you Cardiff boys aren't going to take the moral high ground here? Didn't something similar happen between Cardiff and a Scottish club recently? Motherwell wasn't it?

At the time we just couldn't afford to pay, we were not trying to deceive or get away with not paying, we were just slow to do so. The situations aren't comparable. However with regards to your situation, its normal. Im sure loads of clubs have swapped a player instead of sold him due to them being able to get more value from the swap.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

Vorm was worth 3-4 million. If you can get away with it good luck.

Time will tell I suppose, but like the other poster said.. these undisclosed swap deals are impossible to break down so I suspect we won't owe them a penny.

It's not right though is it. Particularly if it shafted a lower league club who rely on sell on clauses to remain afloat.

If we've done anything illegal I'm sure we'll be made to pay up. Other than that, it's just business I'm afraid. Please tell me that you Cardiff boys aren't going to take the moral high ground here? Didn't something similar happen between Cardiff and a Scottish club recently? Motherwell wasn't it?

There was something over payment of instalment for Paul Quinn. It happened when we signed Bellamy on loan. It was an alleged oversight. In truth it was rids dale not paying a debt. As soon as Motherwell complained the debt was paid

At the time we just couldn't afford to pay, we were not trying to deceive or get away with not paying, we were just slow to do so. The situations aren't comparable. However with regards to your situation, its normal. Im sure loads of clubs have swapped a player instead of sold him due to them being able to get more value from the swap.

Like I said.. It's just business, and Cardiff would do exactly the same.

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

Vorm was worth 3-4 million. If you can get away with it good luck.

Time will tell I suppose, but like the other poster said.. these undisclosed swap deals are impossible to break down so I suspect we won't owe them a penny.

It's not right though is it. Particularly if it shafted a lower league club who rely on sell on clauses to remain afloat.

If we've done anything illegal I'm sure we'll be made to pay up. Other than that, it's just business I'm afraid. Please tell me that you Cardiff boys aren't going to take the moral high ground here? Didn't something similar happen between Cardiff and a Scottish club recently? Motherwell wasn't it?

There was something over payment of instalment for Paul Quinn. It happened when we signed Bellamy on loan. It was an alleged oversight. In truth it was rids dale not paying a debt. As soon as Motherwell complained the debt was paid

As soon as Motherwell complained the debt was paid?

SCOTTISH club Motherwell have publically humiliated Cardiff City over money owed to them over the transfer of defender Paul Quinn last summer. The SPL club say they need the money and say they will pursue every possible avenue to get their money out of the cash-strapped Bluebirds.

In a statement on their official site, the Scottish club said:

"Motherwell Football Club has written to Cardiff City FC requesting an immediate settling of a substantial debt due to the Club following the transfer of Paul Quinn.

Paul QuinnThis debt has been due since January 2010.

Commenting , Chief Executive Leeann Dempster said, “The Board have been very patient with Cardiff given the financial pressures they have faced and the need for clubs to work together to ensure we can all navigate an extremely testing financial environment for the game.

“However the interests of our shareholders, employees and fans are being jeopardised by the failure of Cardiff City to pay the debt that they have outstanding.

“We have made clear to the Board of Cardiff that we are left with no option but to pursue every possible avenue of recourse to secure our own club's interests. We hope that this matter can be resolved in an orderly manner.”

Sounds to me like they'd been chasing their money for quite some time.

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

At the time we just couldn't afford to pay, we were not trying to deceive or get away with not paying, we were just slow to do so. The situations aren't comparable. However with regards to your situation, its normal. Im sure loads of clubs have swapped a player instead of sold him due to them being able to get more value from the swap.

Like I said.. It's just business, and Cardiff would do exactly the same.

It's not right though and proves how corrupt football is. Modern football is full of greed and needs a huge overhaul from the very top (FIFA) right down to grassroots level.

Another point here is that Cardiff fans don't go around saying how well run they are.

At the time we just couldn't afford to pay, we were not trying to deceive or get away with not paying, we were just slow to do so. The situations aren't comparable. However with regards to your situation, its normal. Im sure loads of clubs have swapped a player instead of sold him due to them being able to get more value from the swap.

Like I said.. It's just business, and Cardiff would do exactly the same.

It's not right though and proves how corrupt football is. Modern football is full of greed and needs a huge overhaul from the very top (FIFA) right down to grassroots level.

Another point here is that Cardiff fans don't go around saying how well run they are.

They'd look pretty stupid if they did.

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

I'm almost certain the total figure was £3.5m for the pair. With Collins valued at £3m and Gabbidon £500k to get out of paying much in the way of a sell on fee to WBA.

It was actually referenced on ccmb recently http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... sg_4243656

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Was just going to post this we did it before was 3.5m for both (way to cheap ) but Gabbidon was a "free" so we didn't pay anything to WBA(can't believe I stuck up for a Jack )

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

I'm almost certain the total figure was £3.5m for the pair. With Collins valued at £3m and Gabbidon £500k to get out of paying much in the way of a sell on fee to WBA.

It was actually referenced on ccmb recently http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... sg_4243656

You may well be correct which goes to show that it's gone on for far too long. Football transfers need to be looked at closely by the authorities. Sell on clauses need honouring.

Ccfc have been guilty of messing other clubs around in the past. Sell on clauses are clearly not worth the paper they are written on and are used by clubs to get players for lesser fees.

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

I'm almost certain the total figure was £3.5m for the pair. With Collins valued at £3m and Gabbidon £500k to get out of paying much in the way of a sell on fee to WBA.

It was actually referenced on ccmb recently http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... sg_4243656

You may well be correct which goes to show that it's gone on for far too long. Football transfers need to be looked at closely by the authorities. Sell on clauses need honouring.

Ccfc have been guilty of messing other clubs around in the past. Sell on clauses are clearly not worth the paper they are written on and are used by clubs to get players for lesser fees.

But you've waited until it's Swansea under the spotlight before airing your views? Or have I got you wrong Gareth? Perhaps you published your views on the matter when it was Cardiff who were "bending the rules"? I suspect not, and I thought you were better than this Gareth .

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

I'm almost certain the total figure was £3.5m for the pair. With Collins valued at £3m and Gabbidon £500k to get out of paying much in the way of a sell on fee to WBA.

It was actually referenced on ccmb recently http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... sg_4243656

I think you are spot on with those figures.
it was underhand at the time and it's underhand now.

However the big difference was we were a club who had to sell to stay afloat than wheras you are 1 who is rolling in cash.

Think it might have been a bit less tasteless if at least a smallish fee of say £2m had been put on him. Especially given that he was being touted at £10m a few years ago.


Can't say I'm surprised though. Given that the multi-millinonaire major shareholder was happy to screw small businesses when he took the club on and that the current chairman did the same with his own company.

Same people involved and it's clear what their standards are.
All for the good of the club - and Huw's dividend of course.

Swansea City: Utrecht 'owed money' over Michel Vorm transfer

Dutch side Utrecht have threatened to report Swansea City to Fifa over the Welsh club's sale of goalkeeper Michel Vorm to Tottenham.
The Eredivisie club say they have not received 30% of Vorm's transfer fee, which they claim was agreed as part of his deal to join Swansea in 2011.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Has to be leopards not changing thier spots Gareth, you only have to see the quote from SCFC about not having broken any rules. Standard defence by the jacks to justify the fact the owners of the Liberty Stadium have yet to earn a penny a rent. Que NJ73 to prove my point.

Last edited by castleblue on Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

I'm almost certain the total figure was £3.5m for the pair. With Collins valued at £3m and Gabbidon £500k to get out of paying much in the way of a sell on fee to WBA.

It was actually referenced on ccmb recently http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... sg_4243656

I think you are spot on with those figures.
it was underhand at the time and it's underhand now.

However the big difference was we were a club who had to sell to stay afloat than wheras you are 1 who is rolling in cash.

Think it might have been a bit less tasteless if at least a smallish fee of say £2m had been put on him. Especially given that he was being touted at £10m a few years ago.


Can't say I'm surprised though. Given that the multi-millinonaire major shareholder was happy to screw small businesses when he took the club on and that the current chairman did the same with his own company.

Same people involved and it's clear what their standards are.
All for the good of the club - and Huw's dividend of course.

The hypocrisy in this thread is staggering. When it's cardiff it's ok because it's done for the greater good of the club and because we were skint etc, however when the word swansea comes up its all underhand tactics, ripping off local businesses and causing them to go under etc. At the end of the day, both clubs did what they needed to do to survive. It's as simple as that.

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

I'm almost certain the total figure was £3.5m for the pair. With Collins valued at £3m and Gabbidon £500k to get out of paying much in the way of a sell on fee to WBA.

It was actually referenced on ccmb recently http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... sg_4243656

You may well be correct which goes to show that it's gone on for far too long. Football transfers need to be looked at closely by the authorities. Sell on clauses need honouring.

Ccfc have been guilty of messing other clubs around in the past. Sell on clauses are clearly not worth the paper they are written on and are used by clubs to get players for lesser fees.

But you've waited until it's Swansea under the spotlight before airing your views? Or have I got you wrong Gareth? Perhaps you published your views on the matter when it was Cardiff who were "bending the rules"? I suspect not, and I thought you were better than this Gareth .

I'm admitting that my club has bent the rules and have said its wrong. I thought that Swansea were well run and honourable after the 5p in £ fiasco.

I think the deal was said to be £10m for davies and £5m for vorm, so swansea owe utrecht £1.5m

I think the deal was said to be £10m for davies and £5m for vorm, so swansea owe utrecht £1.5m

But clearly that wasn't the deal though.

Every transfer has to go through the Premier League and be approved by Fifa via their electronic transfer system. This deal went through that system and was approved by Fifa with us not owing Utrecht anything.

Sounds like good buisiness to me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28701743
Wonder what the truth is. Is it a case of a leopard not changing it's spots or are the Dutch getting worked up over nothing.

Well, sir Huw said Vorm went to spurs on a free, so 30% of nothing is... nothing!

Official site said undisclosed fee Someones lying? May not done nothing wrong but shows got no morals when it comes to screwing club out of a cut, not 1st time is it? Mmmm
Ps spew said done whats best for cub? like said no morals.

I'm sure I recall Cardiff doing a very similar thing when Gabbidon and Collins were sold. WBA were due a sell on fee for Gabbidon so he was valued at next to nothing compared to Collins in the double deal.

Can't remember the exact sums involved but the Collins fee was higher than gabbs. Think it was 5 million in total and 3 million was Collins and 2 million was fee for gabbs. Should have been other way around. At the time gabbs was the better player however Collins proved to be the better signing. WBA were paid what they were owed

I'm almost certain the total figure was £3.5m for the pair. With Collins valued at £3m and Gabbidon £500k to get out of paying much in the way of a sell on fee to WBA.

It was actually referenced on ccmb recently http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... sg_4243656

You may well be correct which goes to show that it's gone on for far too long. Football transfers need to be looked at closely by the authorities. Sell on clauses need honouring.

Ccfc have been guilty of messing other clubs around in the past. Sell on clauses are clearly not worth the paper they are written on and are used by clubs to get players for lesser fees.

But you've waited until it's Swansea under the spotlight before airing your views? Or have I got you wrong Gareth? Perhaps you published your views on the matter when it was Cardiff who were "bending the rules"? I suspect not, and I thought you were better than this Gareth .

I'm admitting that my club has bent the rules and have said its wrong. I thought that Swansea were well run and honourable after the 5p in £ fiasco.

We are well run, but I'm not sure a club our size can afford too much in the way of honour in our transfer dealings. We've goto act in our own best interests. Aren't all clubs the same? It's a cut throat business after all. Doesn't make it morally correct, but we all do what we need to survive and compete. Cardiff included. What I take issue with is the hypocrisy of Cardiff fans. Like I said, no mention was made when Cardiff did this, but when it's Swansea the likes of Gareth are all over it like a rash, and of course when all else fails the 5p in the pound gets brought up.