' IT HAS TO STOP NOW '

Annis, it could have stopped before it started. This is not of Israel's making but Hamas. After, in 2005, giving the Arabs all of Gaza, uprooting and making homeless, thousands of Jews all the PLO/Hamas have done is to fire a nonstop barrage of rockets and missiles into S Israel. At anytime since then, had Hamas stopped the assault there would have been peace. Theses Arabs were given the land but it is not land they want but the eradication of Israel. I think you are saying that it's ok for the Arabs to unilaterally attack Israel but not for Israel to respond. Where would that position have left Europe in 1939? Some 3/4s of the Israeli population is now within striking range of the Hamas arsenal. Transposed on to Britain that's the equivalent of 47,000,000 of Britain's population.

Unless it has passed some's notice the IDF has, this week, uncovered a plot by Hamas to utilise her tunnel network to attemp to inflict 10,000 Jewish deaths. What are Israel to do in light of this? Nothing? Some think so.

Clearly these are very difficult days and I'm not knocking at one side and thinking the other is whiter than white. I am really saddened for the ordinary Arab population in Gaza who are saddled with the Hamas' leadership. I for one hope this terrible situation is resolved as soon as possible but it won't while one side has honoured 5 ceasefires and one continued their bombardment.

StT.

Steve, it's the Palestinian country, not Israels, they are occupying the Palestinian land, Hamas were voted in and because UK and USA don't accept them, they are labelled Terrorists.

Annis I'm 100% with you supporting City but we have differeing views on this one. What is Palestine's capital, currency and borders mate? BLUEBIRDS FOREVER.

StT.

Israel is technically just a foreign arm of the US. US mediating peace talks has been laughable from the very beginning. As Annis said, it is Palestinian land occupied by Jews who fled there from occupied Europe. A video my mate put up was great explaining it on Facebook saying it understood the Jews need to find a new home but they've simply done to others what was done to them. This all aside, kids are dying. The world ignored the Rwanda situation and it is a black stain on our past. I hope the world doesn't sit back and let the Israel situation get worse. The US will truly prove itself as a nasty or nice government now.

Israel is technically just a foreign arm of the US. US mediating peace talks has been laughable from the very beginning. As Annis said, it is Palestinian land occupied by Jews who fled there from occupied Europe. A video my mate put up was great explaining it on Facebook saying it understood the Jews need to find a new home but they've simply done to others what was done to them. This all aside, kids are dying. The world ignored the Rwanda situation and it is a black stain on our past. I hope the world doesn't sit back and let the Israel situation get worse. The US will truly prove itself as a nasty or nice government now.

There are historical reasons for the American link to Israel ... 1492 and all that.

If we are talking about occupied land what about Turkey's grab of the northern portion of Cyprus? Few remember this and even fewer campaign over it.

StT.

Annis, it could have stopped before it started. This is not of Israel's making but Hamas. After, in 2005, giving the Arabs all of Gaza, uprooting and making homeless, thousands of Jews all the PLO/Hamas have done is to fire a nonstop barrage of rockets and missiles into S Israel. At anytime since then, had Hamas stopped the assault there would have been peace. Theses Arabs were given the land but it is not land they want but the eradication of Israel. I think you are saying that it's ok for the Arabs to unilaterally attack Israel but not for Israel to respond. Where would that position have left Europe in 1939? Some 3/4s of the Israeli population is now within striking range of the Hamas arsenal. Transposed on to Britain that's the equivalent of 47,000,000 of Britain's population.

Unless it has passed some's notice the IDF has, this week, uncovered a plot by Hamas to utilise her tunnel network to attemp to inflict 10,000 Jewish deaths. What are Israel to do in light of this? Nothing? Some think so.

Clearly these are very difficult days and I'm not knocking at one side and thinking the other is whiter than white. I am really saddened for the ordinary Arab population in Gaza who are saddled with the Hamas' leadership. I for one hope this terrible situation is resolved as soon as possible but it won't while one side has honoured 5 ceasefires and one continued their bombardment.

StT.

Israel is technically just a foreign arm of the US. US mediating peace talks has been laughable from the very beginning. As Annis said, it is Palestinian land occupied by Jews who fled there from occupied Europe. A video my mate put up was great explaining it on Facebook saying it understood the Jews need to find a new home but they've simply done to others what was done to them. This all aside, kids are dying. The world ignored the Rwanda situation and it is a black stain on our past. I hope the world doesn't sit back and let the Israel situation get worse. The US will truly prove itself as a nasty or nice government now.

There are historical reasons for the American link to Israel ... 1492 and all that.

If we are talking about occupied land what about Turkey's grab of the northern portion of Cyprus? Few remember this and even fewer campaign over it.

StT.

What is 1492 and all that about? Christopher Columbus?

There are a lot of reasons for the American support for Israel, but the main ones are:

1. A very large Jewish population and Israeli lobby that has been encouraged and supported and 'used' by Israel since 1948

2. A strategic view by US governments of both parties that Israel can and will act as their proxy in the Middle East - against Arab nationalists and the Soviet union originally, and now against other 'enemy states'.

At times the USA has either bent to anti-semitic sentiment or has gagged on the oppression of the Israelis - but always come back to acting as a paymaster, supplier of the UN veto, strategic guarantor, and main arms provider (although apartheid South Africa got in on the act for a while). I was interested to read last week that John F Kennedy was strongly in support of repatriation of the Palestinian refugees after the ethnic cleansing of 1948-9 - what was the main demand of the Arab league who otherwise mainly left the Palestinians hanging out to dry. Then he was shot (who was on the grassy knoll?) and Lyndon Johnson quietly binned the whole idea of a return for the almost 1 million Palestinians rotting in camps.

Annis, it could have stopped before it started. This is not of Israel's making but Hamas. After, in 2005, giving the Arabs all of Gaza, uprooting and making homeless, thousands of Jews all the PLO/Hamas have done is to fire a nonstop barrage of rockets and missiles into S Israel. At anytime since then, had Hamas stopped the assault there would have been peace. Theses Arabs were given the land but it is not land they want but the eradication of Israel. I think you are saying that it's ok for the Arabs to unilaterally attack Israel but not for Israel to respond. Where would that position have left Europe in 1939? Some 3/4s of the Israeli population is now within striking range of the Hamas arsenal. Transposed on to Britain that's the equivalent of 47,000,000 of Britain's population.

Unless it has passed some's notice the IDF has, this week, uncovered a plot by Hamas to utilise her tunnel network to attemp to inflict 10,000 Jewish deaths. What are Israel to do in light of this? Nothing? Some think so.

Clearly these are very difficult days and I'm not knocking at one side and thinking the other is whiter than white. I am really saddened for the ordinary Arab population in Gaza who are saddled with the Hamas' leadership. I for one hope this terrible situation is resolved as soon as possible but it won't while one side has honoured 5 ceasefires and one continued their bombardment.

StT.

No doubt 2005 was a major event - with 8,000 'settlers' being evicted from Gaza - and wearing yellow Stars of David to identify themselves with the victims of the Holocaust, and shouting 'Nazi' at the IDF who put them on the buses (unreal)!!!

It was more than a publicity stunt, but don't pretend that it gave the Palestinian Arabs control of Gaza. It was not a normal situation and was not a full or honest hand-over of power. The Palestinians didn't control the seas just off the coast, they didn't control the airspace, they didn't control the borders, they had limited ability to generate and maintain utilities, they had no control over movement of goods and people - and Israel tightened or relaxed the stranglehold as it wanted after 2005.

I don't accept that this stage of the conflict was started by Hamas - I think it was Israel in response to the Unity Government of Fatah and Hamas announced in April - but they do seem to be willing to carry on with undirected rocket attacks whilst Israel kills large numbers of civilians in retribution. They have clearly built tunnels for military attacks on Israel - not just to break the blockade on goods. Their support is rising as anger and despair amongst Palestinians reaches a point where they feel they must see some benefit from all the deaths and injuries, and displacement and suffering - and Hamas is the only organisation they see resisting.

Any solution, any first step on the road to peace, will have to see concessions and confidence building actions on both parts, starting with ceasefire and relaxation of the blockade. But I can't see any hope with Zionism and Jihadism representing the two sides, and hope that both are replaced with new movements representing the Israeli and Palestinian people asap. Very hard to do - and it won't be a straight road.

For what its worth, Hamas are using schools and other public buildings to fire their rockets into Israel, they wont let the people leave to find safety , thinking that Israel wont target these places whilst they are there, they are wrong. If you were a Arab living there, when one of those knobs fire a rocket into Israel you know one is on its way back to you.
You cant tell me that one of their oil rich neighbours could not end their poverty if they wanted to, it suits them to keep the conflict going, put pressure on hamas to cease fire 1st then it will end.

Annis, it could have stopped before it started. This is not of Israel's making but Hamas. After, in 2005, giving the Arabs all of Gaza, uprooting and making homeless, thousands of Jews all the PLO/Hamas have done is to fire a nonstop barrage of rockets and missiles into S Israel. At anytime since then, had Hamas stopped the assault there would have been peace. Theses Arabs were given the land but it is not land they want but the eradication of Israel. I think you are saying that it's ok for the Arabs to unilaterally attack Israel but not for Israel to respond. Where would that position have left Europe in 1939? Some 3/4s of the Israeli population is now within striking range of the Hamas arsenal. Transposed on to Britain that's the equivalent of 47,000,000 of Britain's population.

Unless it has passed some's notice the IDF has, this week, uncovered a plot by Hamas to utilise her tunnel network to attemp to inflict 10,000 Jewish deaths. What are Israel to do in light of this? Nothing? Some think so.

Clearly these are very difficult days and I'm not knocking at one side and thinking the other is whiter than white. I am really saddened for the ordinary Arab population in Gaza who are saddled with the Hamas' leadership. I for one hope this terrible situation is resolved as soon as possible but it won't while one side has honoured 5 ceasefires and one continued their bombardment.

StT.

No doubt 2005 was a major event - with 8,000 'settlers' being evicted from Gaza - and wearing yellow Stars of David to identify themselves with the victims of the Holocaust, and shouting 'Nazi' at the IDF who put them on the buses (unreal)!!!

It was more than a publicity stunt, but don't pretend that it gave the Palestinian Arabs control of Gaza. It was not a normal situation and was not a full or honest hand-over of power. The Palestinians didn't control the seas just off the coast, they didn't control the airspace, they didn't control the borders, they had limited ability to generate and maintain utilities, they had no control over movement of goods and people - and Israel tightened or relaxed the stranglehold as it wanted after 2005.

I don't accept that this stage of the conflict was started by Hamas - I think it was Israel in response to the Unity Government of Fatah and Hamas announced in April - but they do seem to be willing to carry on with undirected rocket attacks whilst Israel kills large numbers of civilians in retribution. They have clearly built tunnels for military attacks on Israel - not just to break the blockade on goods. Their support is rising as anger and despair amongst Palestinians reaches a point where they feel they must see some benefit from all the deaths and injuries, and displacement and suffering - and Hamas is the only organisation they see resisting.

Any solution, any first step on the road to peace, will have to see concessions and confidence building actions on both parts, starting with ceasefire and relaxation of the blockade. But I can't see any hope with Zionism and Jihadism representing the two sides, and hope that both are replaced with new movements representing the Israeli and Palestinian people asap. Very hard to do - and it won't be a straight road.

fair and reasonable post.............

I must admit that I don't always agree with Steve the teamaker but he's top man on this thread.

This worse governments are the ones who are willing to justify the death of their own people for their own agenda/ideology and Hamas is the ONLY side who does this out of the two.

Hamas wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for what Israel has done. Hamas formed in 1987 as a reaction to Israel's actions.

All those who are happy for Israel to continue taking more Palestinian land using the same logic are also happy that the English came and occupied Welsh land by force. In neither case was the land actually there's to begin with.

Haven't heard of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood then ? Which was working with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood before they set up Hamas in 1987 ?

And while we are on the issue of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood then why didn't they open the Gaza/Egypt boarder when they were in control of Egypt a couple of year ago ? Answer is because not even they trust Hamas

Hamas wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for what Israel has done. Hamas formed in 1987 as a reaction to Israel's actions.

All those who are happy for Israel to continue taking more Palestinian land using the same logic are also happy that the English came and occupied Welsh land by force. In neither case was the land actually there's to begin with.

Haven't heard of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood then ? Which was working with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood before they set up Hamas in 1987 ?

And while we are on the issue of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood then why didn't they open the Gaza/Egypt boarder when they were in control of Egypt a couple of year ago ? Answer is because not even they trust Hamas

correct.

Annis, it could have stopped before it started. This is not of Israel's making but Hamas. After, in 2005, giving the Arabs all of Gaza, uprooting and making homeless, thousands of Jews all the PLO/Hamas have done is to fire a nonstop barrage of rockets and missiles into S Israel. At anytime since then, had Hamas stopped the assault there would have been peace. Theses Arabs were given the land but it is not land they want but the eradication of Israel. I think you are saying that it's ok for the Arabs to unilaterally attack Israel but not for Israel to respond. Where would that position have left Europe in 1939? Some 3/4s of the Israeli population is now within striking range of the Hamas arsenal. Transposed on to Britain that's the equivalent of 47,000,000 of Britain's population.

Unless it has passed some's notice the IDF has, this week, uncovered a plot by Hamas to utilise her tunnel network to attemp to inflict 10,000 Jewish deaths. What are Israel to do in light of this? Nothing? Some think so.

Clearly these are very difficult days and I'm not knocking at one side and thinking the other is whiter than white. I am really saddened for the ordinary Arab population in Gaza who are saddled with the Hamas' leadership. I for one hope this terrible situation is resolved as soon as possible but it won't while one side has honoured 5 ceasefires and one continued their bombardment.

StT.

No doubt 2005 was a major event - with 8,000 'settlers' being evicted from Gaza - and wearing yellow Stars of David to identify themselves with the victims of the Holocaust, and shouting 'Nazi' at the IDF who put them on the buses (unreal)!!!

It was more than a publicity stunt, but don't pretend that it gave the Palestinian Arabs control of Gaza. It was not a normal situation and was not a full or honest hand-over of power. The Palestinians didn't control the seas just off the coast, they didn't control the airspace, they didn't control the borders, they had limited ability to generate and maintain utilities, they had no control over movement of goods and people - and Israel tightened or relaxed the stranglehold as it wanted after 2005.

I don't accept that this stage of the conflict was started by Hamas - I think it was Israel in response to the Unity Government of Fatah and Hamas announced in April - but they do seem to be willing to carry on with undirected rocket attacks whilst Israel kills large numbers of civilians in retribution. They have clearly built tunnels for military attacks on Israel - not just to break the blockade on goods. Their support is rising as anger and despair amongst Palestinians reaches a point where they feel they must see some benefit from all the deaths and injuries, and displacement and suffering - and Hamas is the only organisation they see resisting.

Any solution, any first step on the road to peace, will have to see concessions and confidence building actions on both parts, starting with ceasefire and relaxation of the blockade. But I can't see any hope with Zionism and Jihadism representing the two sides, and hope that both are replaced with new movements representing the Israeli and Palestinian people asap. Very hard to do - and it won't be a straight road.

very good post

Hamas wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for what Israel has done. Hamas formed in 1987 as a reaction to Israel's actions.

All those who are happy for Israel to continue taking more Palestinian land using the same logic are also happy that the English came and occupied Welsh land by force. In neither case was the land actually there's to begin with.

Haven't heard of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood then ? Which was working with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood before they set up Hamas in 1987 ?

And while we are on the issue of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood then why didn't they open the Gaza/Egypt boarder when they were in control of Egypt a couple of year ago ? Answer is because not even they trust Hamas

correct.

I do wonder whether the likes of Green arrow or Aherne get their information from on this subject ? Do they just have a couple of beers of let themselves get brainwashed with anti-American crap on the net ?

Hamas wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for what Israel has done. Hamas formed in 1987 as a reaction to Israel's actions.

All those who are happy for Israel to continue taking more Palestinian land using the same logic are also happy that the English came and occupied Welsh land by force. In neither case was the land actually there's to begin with.

Haven't heard of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood then ? Which was working with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood before they set up Hamas in 1987 ?

And while we are on the issue of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood then why didn't they open the Gaza/Egypt boarder when they were in control of Egypt a couple of year ago ? Answer is because not even they trust Hamas

correct.

I do wonder whether the likes of Green arrow or Aherne get their information from on this subject ? Do they just have a couple of beers of let themselves get brainwashed with anti-American crap on the net ?

when exactly did hamas form then brownie?

You will never sort this out ,out there ,for a start the two religions hate each other ,and if i remember correctly it was israels land before the Romans invaded and took the land from them and named it Palestine which came from an extinct people called the philistines that were enemies of the israelites , then there has been other neighbouring countries that have invaded and so on right up until great Britain were in control of it 60 odd years ago ,so you can see they both believe that its their land and no matter how much fighting they do killing each other will not sort this out ,are they fighting over land or two religions killing each other ,the sad thing is its the innocent people kids etc that are being killed ,they need to stop sit down and sort it out but blind hatred is stopping them doing it ,very sad .

Dew Dew Dew.

The amount of people on this thread who have no idea what they are talking about and base their
views/ideology on what they read in the mass media is staggering

never read what i said in the media , granted its being fulled by usa etc ,but the the rest is history what as actually happened ,for people to say got no idea what we are on about, sorry some i us do more than you know .

What has to stop is your lies and abuse of power Tannis.

Hamas wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for what Israel has done. Hamas formed in 1987 as a reaction to Israel's actions.

All those who are happy for Israel to continue taking more Palestinian land using the same logic are also happy that the English came and occupied Welsh land by force. In neither case was the land actually there's to begin with.

Haven't heard of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood then ? Which was working with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood before they set up Hamas in 1987 ?

And while we are on the issue of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood then why didn't they open the Gaza/Egypt boarder when they were in control of Egypt a couple of year ago ? Answer is because not even they trust Hamas

correct.

I do wonder whether the likes of Green arrow or Aherne get their information from on this subject ? Do they just have a couple of beers of let themselves get brainwashed with anti-American crap on the net ?

when exactly did hamas form then brownie?

87 in name form but they were called the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood before then

f*cking Popular people's Front....


Blah blah blah...

One side has an army... With some serious weaponary.
The other side doesn't.

It has to use underhand tactics to fight its battles..
Whilst the other side fires it's devastating missiles.


Who are the terrorists then?

f*cking Popular people's Front....


Blah blah blah...

One side has an army... With some serious weaponary.
The other side doesn't.

It has to use underhand tactics to fight its battles..
Whilst the other side fires it's devastating missiles.


Who are the terrorists then?

i think the serious weaponary and army are a result of the other guys making no secret of the fact that they want them all dead, dont you?
iron dome which cost hundreds of millions is a defence system too shoot down missiles. midsiles not arrows fired by bows,or rocks fired by slings
and as for battles,well there arnt any,one side turns up in uniform the others hide in civilian communities,while saying they love death.

f*cking Popular people's Front....


Blah blah blah...

One side has an army... With some serious weaponary.
The other side doesn't.

It has to use underhand tactics to fight its battles..
Whilst the other side fires it's devastating missiles.


Who are the terrorists then?

Maybe the ones who strap bombs to kids and ask them to walk a few hundreds yards down the road to the local Israeli markets which is packed full of innocent Israeli children which their families buying their weekly shopping ?

f*cking Popular people's Front....


Blah blah blah...

One side has an army... With some serious weaponary.
The other side doesn't.

It has to use underhand tactics to fight its battles..
Whilst the other side fires it's devastating missiles.


Who are the terrorists then?

Maybe the ones who strap bombs to kids and ask them to walk a few hundreds yards down the road to the local Israeli markets which is packed full of innocent Israeli children which their families buying their weekly shopping ?

Key word here Innocent.... Easily confused with ignorance.

Example.. In your one sided view, the kids doing the shopping are innocent.
The kid who has had a bomb strapped to him and is told to go for a walk is not innocent..



No Sir.. Not at all...

f*cking Popular people's Front....


Blah blah blah...

One side has an army... With some serious weaponary.
The other side doesn't.

It has to use underhand tactics to fight its battles..
Whilst the other side fires it's devastating missiles.


Who are the terrorists then?

Maybe the ones who strap bombs to kids and ask them to walk a few hundreds yards down the road to the local Israeli markets which is packed full of innocent Israeli children which their families buying their weekly shopping ?

Key word here Innocent.... Easily confused with ignorance.

Example.. In your one sided view, the kids doing the shopping are innocent.
The kid who has had a bomb strapped to him and is told to go for a walk is not innocent..



No Sir.. Not at all...

Completely misunderstanding my point!!! The suicide bombers are also innocent children but the people who are sending them aren't and as they don't care about their own kids anyway!!

f*cking Popular people's Front....


Blah blah blah...

One side has an army... With some serious weaponary.
The other side doesn't.

It has to use underhand tactics to fight its battles..
Whilst the other side fires it's devastating missiles.


Who are the terrorists then?

Maybe the ones who strap bombs to kids and ask them to walk a few hundreds yards down the road to the local Israeli markets which is packed full of innocent Israeli children which their families buying their weekly shopping ?

Key word here Innocent.... Easily confused with ignorance.

Example.. In your one sided view, the kids doing the shopping are innocent.
The kid who has had a bomb strapped to him and is told to go for a walk is not innocent..



No Sir.. Not at all...

Completely misunderstanding my point!!! The suicide bombers are also innocent children but the people who are sending them aren't and as they don't care about their own kids anyway!!

Understood clearly.

Perhaps it was the way you worded it....

They only send children in as bombers do they?
Do the Israeli missiles only target known terrorist targets or random areas where perhaps children are?


Casualties of war happen on both sides.

But one side has a fully weaponised military backing and the other side doesn't.

Power and responsibility and all that jargon.

The Gooners were on the march in London last night

10450022_691775880905998_7480540682211707542_o.jpg

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

UN JUST SAID ISRAEL CRIMINAL ACTS BY THEM ATTACKING UN PROTECTED AREAS INCLUDING SCHOOLS.

Last 4 weeks
1,760 Palestinian families murdered and massacared and 68 Israelis killed including 66 Of their Soldiers.

Yet still no one stops them.

Dew Dew Dew.

The amount of people on this thread who have no idea what they are talking about and base their
views/ideology on what they read in the mass media is staggering

Well this contribution has really helped in the debate.

You will never sort this out ,out there ,for a start the two religions hate each other ,and if i remember correctly it was israels land before the Romans invaded and took the land from them and named it Palestine which came from an extinct people called the philistines that were enemies of the israelites , then there has been other neighbouring countries that have invaded and so on right up until great Britain were in control of it 60 odd years ago ,so you can see they both believe that its their land and no matter how much fighting they do killing each other will not sort this out ,are they fighting over land or two religions killing each other ,the sad thing is its the innocent people kids etc that are being killed ,they need to stop sit down and sort it out but blind hatred is stopping them doing it ,very sad .

I don't profess to know a lot about the history but I take an interest in the current affairs. If this post along with Steve the Tea's view about Israel owning the land long before the Palestinians then it speaks volumes.
One thing is for sure though, the Palestinians don't want the land, they want genocide & the obliteration of Israel.

You will never sort this out ,out there ,for a start the two religions hate each other ,and if i remember correctly it was israels land before the Romans invaded and took the land from them and named it Palestine which came from an extinct people called the philistines that were enemies of the israelites , then there has been other neighbouring countries that have invaded and so on right up until great Britain were in control of it 60 odd years ago ,so you can see they both believe that its their land and no matter how much fighting they do killing each other will not sort this out ,are they fighting over land or two religions killing each other ,the sad thing is its the innocent people kids etc that are being killed ,they need to stop sit down and sort it out but blind hatred is stopping them doing it ,very sad .

I don't profess to know a lot about the history but I take an interest in the current affairs. If this post along with Steve the Tea's view about Israel owning the land long before the Palestinians then it speaks volumes.
One thing is for sure though, the Palestinians don't want the land, they want genocide & the obliteration of Israel.

spot on......Annis can put up all the stats he likes...........the reality is if Hamas had Israels weapons and army today..Israel wouldnt exist tomorrow.