When will Cardiff finish above Swansea next?

The player bought then gets listed in the accounts as an asset, so it evens itself out. Ridiculous analogy about Caulker as he's worth no where near that amount, he is however, worth around what we actually paid for him.

No they don't. Players are not assets, once their contracts run out they are worthless and also the value is subjective. Impossible to do.

Do you think you will ever get £11m for Medel? You would be lucky to get half.

Yes they are

To grow you need to invest,

agreed to an extent. invest the clubs money and not someone elses plunging the club in debt.

to grow you need to own your stadium and considerably increase its capacity.

nonsense, why must you own your own stadium and why must the capacity increase? Inter milan dont own their own stadium as well as many other sides. Money from attendances is small fry in the Prem, important for football league as it makes up 40% of income, in the Prem it is little more than 10%.

Many other sides???? How big is the San Siro again?

meaning what though? You are suggesting because we dont get an extra £3m in revenue we will not grow?

To grow your managers need to stop leaving you

yet we have finished higher than the previous season 10 times in a row.

Surely managers leaving will not help continuity.

surely what I just told you about 10 years of bettering the previous finish says that isnt true?

To grow, you need the premiership a lot more than it needs you, because without its money you are struggling for revenue streams. A relegation and a year or two without promotion, then it's back to basic food rations for you.

this is the only point i agree with. I dont envisage leaving it any time soon.

But IF you do.... curtains.

Now the onslaught, of debt, fan division, red shirts, same can be said of you, etc etc blah blah blah. p.s. Is all peaceful and harmonious down at the Liberty rugby ground?

same can be said of us? Really?
I[color=#0000FF] mean't that you would come back to my post with a 'same could be said of you' comment, if we go down and fail to come back. We are actively investing in our long term future, whilst admittedly gambling with it's short term future. I think we will be just fine, thank you very much for your concern though.

but you are knocking on the door of going down, in fact you are favourites too - we arent even in the picture and have never been as we have always finished top 12.

Do go on....[/color]

That is just mechanical soundbites, please expand.

Ive highlighted my queries in red.

Back at you in Blue. The irony of it all.

The player bought then gets listed in the accounts as an asset, so it evens itself out. Ridiculous analogy about Caulker as he's worth no where near that amount, he is however, worth around what we actually paid for him.

No they don't. Players are not assets, once their contracts run out they are worthless and also the value is subjective. Impossible to do.

Do you think you will ever get £11m for Medel? You would be lucky to get half.

Yes they are

Nope, they arent. And if they are then it is ridiculous accounting.

I found it ridiculous the club puts £40m on the asset sheet for the stadium too, it cannot be sold. It is worth the land it sits on which is £6m.

If you and your fans are happy with this creative accounting to make the frankly scary position you are in look less scary then you all need a long hard look in the mirror.

i think all you need to do is look at the football league top to botom 20 years ago (or 15 for that matter) to see how quickly a club can rise and fall with no indication that they will do so at the time. you are basing your guesses on the assumptions that both clubs will be run the same way by the same people for that amount of time. where as in my living memory i have not seen a regime at either club last nearly as long as that.

yep and I bet you every club did not have the infrastructure or ethos we do. Im not assuming we will be run the same way, i know we will. We are part owned by fans and we will always have a say, shares wont be sold to anyone that doesnt have the interests of our ethos at heart.

As for you guys, you have been run this way for the last decade and it will only continue as your fans demand it. Stability and steady growth is not good enough.

for what its worth though, i thought you meant you would finish above us 20 seasons on the ounce starting from now, not inclusing the last few years as well...seeing as you asked "when will cardiff finish above swansea next? then answered you're own question with the answer 20 years. at the moment you are 0% right and in 3 weeks will be 5% right (thanks for the pedantic lessons )

does it matter? Does that 5 seasons change anything? Im simply predicting that what is already happening will simply continue to do so, this is based on the financial gap that will continue to grow as we are in the Prem while you are saddles with debt and an ethos to continue that.

I dont believe that is particularly outlandish.

how many seasons before that did we finish above you???

at no point did i assume that would always be the case. so yes, if you believe in the idea that "the way things are at my club and your club will remain that way for an entire genaration" then i wildly overestimated how much you actually know about football. Because how can you possibly know that our financial situations will continue to grow apart? you cannot in any way know that.

and you also suggest that most fans at this club wanted to spend £110 million, or indeed that we had a say? you did this by suggesting that "stability and steady growth isnt good enough" for our fans. i for one would be happy to build on solid foundations and if/when tan sells up the next owner may very well do that, he may not...its a 50/50 guess.
But you decided that all of our fans are happy with the status quo and therefore there will be no change. can't say it enough....guesswork at its finest

To grow you need to invest,

agreed to an extent. invest the clubs money and not someone elses plunging the club in debt.

to grow you need to own your stadium and considerably increase its capacity.

nonsense, why must you own your own stadium and why must the capacity increase? Inter milan dont own their own stadium as well as many other sides. Money from attendances is small fry in the Prem, important for football league as it makes up 40% of income, in the Prem it is little more than 10%.

Many other sides???? How big is the San Siro again?

meaning what though? You are suggesting because we dont get an extra £3m in revenue we will not grow?

To grow your managers need to stop leaving you

yet we have finished higher than the previous season 10 times in a row.

Surely managers leaving will not help continuity.

surely what I just told you about 10 years of bettering the previous finish says that isnt true?

To grow, you need the premiership a lot more than it needs you, because without its money you are struggling for revenue streams. A relegation and a year or two without promotion, then it's back to basic food rations for you.

this is the only point i agree with. I dont envisage leaving it any time soon.

But IF you do.... curtains.

Now the onslaught, of debt, fan division, red shirts, same can be said of you, etc etc blah blah blah. p.s. Is all peaceful and harmonious down at the Liberty rugby ground?

same can be said of us? Really?
I[color=#0000FF] mean't that you would come back to my post with a 'same could be said of you' comment, if we go down and fail to come back. We are actively investing in our long term future, whilst admittedly gambling with it's short term future. I think we will be just fine, thank you very much for your concern though.

but you are knocking on the door of going down, in fact you are favourites too - we arent even in the picture and have never been as we have always finished top 12.

Do go on....[/color]

That is just mechanical soundbites, please expand.

Ive highlighted my queries in red.

Back at you in Blue. The irony of it all.

Your business model is based on staying in the premiership and living off the TV money. If you continue to not invest in other more traditional revenue streams, and your Tv money dries up by getting relegated, then your walls will come crashing down. Due to the foundations being built of sand. Only my opinion. I'm sure Huw and Tan have far more informed views on the subject.

Your business model is based on staying in the premiership and living off the TV money. If you continue to not invest in other more traditional revenue streams, and your Tv money dries up by getting relegated, then your walls will come crashing down. Due to the foundations being built of sand. Only my opinion. I'm sure Huw and Tan have far more informed views on the subject.

No its not, we were living within our means for the decade long before the Premiership.

What other traditional revenue streams do you suggest we invest in?

I agree if we are relegated then my view probably wont come true, however i dont see us getting relegated any time soon.

The player bought then gets listed in the accounts as an asset, so it evens itself out. Ridiculous analogy about Caulker as he's worth no where near that amount, he is however, worth around what we actually paid for him.

No they don't. Players are not assets, once their contracts run out they are worthless and also the value is subjective. Impossible to do.

Do you think you will ever get £11m for Medel? You would be lucky to get half.

Yes they are

Nope, they arent. And if they are then it is ridiculous accounting.

I found it ridiculous the club puts £40m on the asset sheet for the stadium too, it cannot be sold. It is worth the land it sits on which is £6m.

If you and your fans are happy with this creative accounting to make the frankly scary position you are in look less scary then you all need a long hard look in the mirror.

You need to also let Aston Villa's finance director know he is also wrong

as this quote from an interview with him

"We do, as you suggest treat players as an asset. The cost of acquiring a player can be made up of many components. These include the transfer fee itself and agents fees. The costs are capitalised and included as intangible fixed assets. These costs are then depreciated or ‘amortised’ over the length of the players contract. The amortisation charge reduces the value of the asset and creates a charge in our profit and loss account. As an example if we purchase a player for £1m on a 4 year contract we would have an amortisation charge of £250k per year. At the end of year 1 he would have an asset value of £750k. At the end of year 4 he would have a value of nil.

If a player signs a contract extension we would amortise the remaining asset value of that player over the length of the new contract."

or you could take it up with these guys to:

http://www.bbk.ac.uk/management/mscmres ... hap7.shtml

of course, you know best though

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

You are having a laugh small town boy

Your business model is based on staying in the premiership and living off the TV money. If you continue to not invest in other more traditional revenue streams, and your Tv money dries up by getting relegated, then your walls will come crashing down. Due to the foundations being built of sand. Only my opinion. I'm sure Huw and Tan have far more informed views on the subject.

No its not, we were living within our means for the decade long before the Premiership.

What other traditional revenue streams do you suggest we invest in?

I agree if we are relegated then my view probably wont come true, however i dont see us getting relegated any time soon.

Let's not get into the subject if living within your own means. CVA's and all that. The streams you will need if the TV money dries up. Season tickets, shirt sales, sponsorship both corporate and match-day. Are there any corporate boxes at the Ospreys ground? I really don't know. Let's hope for your clubs sake that they don't envisage going down, because failing to plan for such a thing could be the club, planning to fail. Goodluck. Doesn't sound like your club needs it though.

Your business model is based on staying in the premiership and living off the TV money. If you continue to not invest in other more traditional revenue streams, and your Tv money dries up by getting relegated, then your walls will come crashing down. Due to the foundations being built of sand. Only my opinion. I'm sure Huw and Tan have far more informed views on the subject.

No its not, we were living within our means for the decade long before the Premiership.

What other traditional revenue streams do you suggest we invest in?

I agree if we are relegated then my view probably wont come true, however i dont see us getting relegated any time soon.

Let's not get into the subject if living within your own means. CVA's and all that. The streams you will need if the TV money dries up. Season tickets, shirt sales, sponsorship both corporate and match-day. Are there any corporate boxes at the Ospreys ground? I really don't know. Let's hope for your clubs sake that they don't envisage going down, because failing to plan for such a thing could be the club, planning to fail. Goodluck. Doesn't sound like your club needs it though.

The CVA was 12 years ago under different owners and previous to our club ethos. It is DUE to the CVA and previous owners errors that we are now the club we are.

Your income in the Championship was £17m, ours was £13.5m and that was with a rented ground with 7,500 less seats. Yet we still made a profit or broke even while you lost a million a month.

If we stay up, I would say next season or the season after. The Swansea team isn't getting much better and I think they've reached their full potential. But even if we do get relegated I think it will only take 2/3 years.

just playing devils advocate here but what do you mean by "reached its full potential"?

In other words, I don't think they'll get any better than what they are

i understand that. i mean why do you think a club that has probably improved in quality of squad for the last 4 years or so (at least) will now stop improving?

In all fairness playing in Europe probably effective their league form to a certain extent, but based on the fact that this has been their worst season in the Premier League so far. I can't see them finishing in the top 10 again unless they bring in a good manager.

Your business model is based on staying in the premiership and living off the TV money. If you continue to not invest in other more traditional revenue streams, and your Tv money dries up by getting relegated, then your walls will come crashing down. Due to the foundations being built of sand. Only my opinion. I'm sure Huw and Tan have far more informed views on the subject.

No its not, we were living within our means for the decade long before the Premiership.

What other traditional revenue streams do you suggest we invest in?

I agree if we are relegated then my view probably wont come true, however i dont see us getting relegated any time soon.

Let's not get into the subject if living within your own means. CVA's and all that. The streams you will need if the TV money dries up. Season tickets, shirt sales, sponsorship both corporate and match-day. Are there any corporate boxes at the Ospreys ground? I really don't know. Let's hope for your clubs sake that they don't envisage going down, because failing to plan for such a thing could be the club, planning to fail. Goodluck. Doesn't sound like your club needs it though.

The CVA was 12 years ago under different owners and previous to our club ethos. It is DUE to the CVA and previous owners errors that we are now the club we are.

Your income in the Championship was £17m, ours was £13.5m and that was with a rented ground with 7,500 less seats. Yet we still made a profit or broke even while you lost a million a month.

you payed the rent?

Your business model is based on staying in the premiership and living off the TV money. If you continue to not invest in other more traditional revenue streams, and your Tv money dries up by getting relegated, then your walls will come crashing down. Due to the foundations being built of sand. Only my opinion. I'm sure Huw and Tan have far more informed views on the subject.

No its not, we were living within our means for the decade long before the Premiership.

What other traditional revenue streams do you suggest we invest in?

I agree if we are relegated then my view probably wont come true, however i dont see us getting relegated any time soon.

Let's not get into the subject if living within your own means. CVA's and all that. The streams you will need if the TV money dries up. Season tickets, shirt sales, sponsorship both corporate and match-day. Are there any corporate boxes at the Ospreys ground? I really don't know. Let's hope for your clubs sake that they don't envisage going down, because failing to plan for such a thing could be the club, planning to fail. Goodluck. Doesn't sound like your club needs it though.

The CVA was 12 years ago under different owners and previous to our club ethos. It is DUE to the CVA and previous owners errors that we are now the club we are.

Your income in the Championship was £17m, ours was £13.5m and that was with a rented ground with 7,500 less seats. Yet we still made a profit or broke even while you lost a million a month.

you payed the rent?

they pay about 1p a year probably, but ffs dont get him started on finances he has a degree in economics from camebridge!

Fair play hes done better than Robson Green with this thread

With Cardiff's financial position and lack of strategy at boardroom level you could well do a Pompey. The jacks on the other hand, with no Europe next year, Bony firing from the start and a fit Michu, who know, top 6 is not entirely out of the question. We'll probably take Caulker off your hands as he's a true Jack, that'll solve our CH problem.

A lot of plastic reds will then start to follow the Jacks and the rest as they say is history.

The jacks are staying up

Your business model is based on staying in the premiership and living off the TV money. If you continue to not invest in other more traditional revenue streams, and your Tv money dries up by getting relegated, then your walls will come crashing down. Due to the foundations being built of sand. Only my opinion. I'm sure Huw and Tan have far more informed views on the subject.

No its not, we were living within our means for the decade long before the Premiership.

What other traditional revenue streams do you suggest we invest in?

I agree if we are relegated then my view probably wont come true, however i dont see us getting relegated any time soon.

Let's not get into the subject if living within your own means. CVA's and all that. The streams you will need if the TV money dries up. Season tickets, shirt sales, sponsorship both corporate and match-day. Are there any corporate boxes at the Ospreys ground? I really don't know. Let's hope for your clubs sake that they don't envisage going down, because failing to plan for such a thing could be the club, planning to fail. Goodluck. Doesn't sound like your club needs it though.

The CVA was 12 years ago under different owners and previous to our club ethos. It is DUE to the CVA and previous owners errors that we are now the club we are.

Your income in the Championship was £17m, ours was £13.5m and that was with a rented ground with 7,500 less seats. Yet we still made a profit or broke even while you lost a million a month.

you payed the rent?

Yup

Mate regardless of what happens, in twenty years time when you look back at this period of your life you will think .. f**k me I spent alot of time on the internet commenting on a football team I don't support.

Get out a bit more fella - the jacks are safe. Go comment on the Swansea message board and talk about issues that are important to the club, or maybe go to the pub see some mates?

Mate regardless of what happens, in twenty years time when you look back at this period of your life you will think .. f**k me I spent alot of time on the internet commenting on a football team I don't support.

Get out a bit more fella - the jacks are safe. Go comment on the Swansea message board and talk about issues that are important to the club, or maybe go to the pub see some mates?

well then I will be reflecting still being above you guys

Mate regardless of what happens, in twenty years time when you look back at this period of your life you will think .. f**k me I spent alot of time on the internet commenting on a football team I don't support.

Get out a bit more fella - the jacks are safe. Go comment on the Swansea message board and talk about issues that are important to the club, or maybe go to the pub see some mates?

well then I will be reflecting still being above you guys

Genuinely now pal, you're not even a wind up.. Just someone who is sad enough to post more on an opposing teams message board than anyone else who supports the club.

Yep so you have said. Oh the shame

Tee hee hee hee.

With Cardiff's financial position and lack of strategy at boardroom level you could well do a Pompey. The jacks on the other hand, with no Europe next year, Bony firing from the start and a fit Michu, who know, top 6 is not entirely out of the question. We'll probably take Caulker off your hands as he's a true Jack, that'll solve our CH problem.

A lot of plastic reds will then start to follow the Jacks and the rest as they say is history.

The jacks are staying up

I don't expect you to keep both Michu & Bony. If you genuinely think you are going to reach the Top 6, you're deluded. You've not been in Europe for a while now, yet your performances have hardly shown any sparkle. You're still towards the bottom of the form table.

More assumptions regarding Caulker... Funny that he's said otherwise himself.

I always find it cute when the worst supported team in the premiership start talking about plastics and supporter numbers though.

I don't see how anyone can answer the question until next weekend. A win for Cardiff could see them in with a very good shout of staying up. Then the answer could be next season.

A loss and we are in the championship and the answer could be 2 decades as (and I hope) Vincent Tan leaves which although will leave the club in heavy debt with not much income Cardiff can then be restored, regain their identity the fans can unite and then to be honest Swansea should be the last thing on City's mind then because for the first time in a while Cardiff fans can be proud of their club and concentrate on the only thing that matters (which is City). At the moment our club is a f*cking joke and I'd take league 1 instead of this shit.

I don't see how anyone can answer the question until next weekend. A win for Cardiff could see them in with a very good shout of staying up. Then the answer could be next season.

A loss and we are in the championship and the answer could be 2 decades as (and I hope) Vincent Tan leaves which although will leave the club in heavy debt with not much income Cardiff can then be restored, regain their identity the fans can unite and then to be honest Swansea should be the last thing on City's mind then because for the first time in a while Cardiff fans can be proud of their club and concentrate on the only thing that matters (which is City). At the moment our club is a f*cking joke and I'd take league 1 instead of this shit.

a rebrand post in a non-rebrand thread....how refreshing

If cardiff stay up, next season. If cardiff go down, in two seasons.

Laudrup is a big reason why swansea have the squad that they do in the wage budget swansea allows, my guess is they'll lose key players and not be able to replace them with as good or better ones, whereas cardiff has money to spend and perhaps a positive development going forward if Tan pulls his shit together.

Bear in mind this opinion is based 100% on other people's forum comments and some clueless pundits' opinions, I've watched like 2 swansea games in my life.

If cardiff stay up, next season. If cardiff go down, in two seasons.

Laudrup is a big reason why swansea have the squad that they do in the wage budget swansea allows, my guess is they'll lose key players and not be able to replace them with as good or better ones, whereas cardiff has money to spend and perhaps a positive development going forward if Tan pulls his shit together.

Bear in mind this opinion is based 100% on other people's forum comments and some clueless pundits' opinions, I've watched like 2 swansea games in my life.

Swansea are a richer club than Cardiff no question.

As for Laudrup bringing in our side - Bony (rumoured to be a jenkins signing), Michu, chico and Hernandez is the only ones he brought int hat get into our side. shelvey was recommended to come here by Rodgers.

I don't see how anyone can answer the question until next weekend. A win for Cardiff could see them in with a very good shout of staying up. Then the answer could be next season.

A loss and we are in the championship and the answer could be 2 decades as (and I hope) Vincent Tan leaves which although will leave the club in heavy debt with not much income Cardiff can then be restored, regain their identity the fans can unite and then to be honest Swansea should be the last thing on City's mind then because for the first time in a while Cardiff fans can be proud of their club and concentrate on the only thing that matters (which is City). At the moment our club is a f*cking joke and I'd take league 1 instead of this shit.

a rebrand post in a non-rebrand thread....how refreshing

Lay off the drugs you one eyed freak and learn to read you illiterate tw*t. No rebrand mentioned you pillock

I don't see how anyone can answer the question until next weekend. A win for Cardiff could see them in with a very good shout of staying up. Then the answer could be next season.

A loss and we are in the championship and the answer could be 2 decades as (and I hope) Vincent Tan leaves which although will leave the club in heavy debt with not much income Cardiff can then be restored, regain their identity the fans can unite and then to be honest Swansea should be the last thing on City's mind then because for the first time in a while Cardiff fans can be proud of their club and concentrate on the only thing that matters (which is City). At the moment our club is a f*cking joke and I'd take league 1 instead of this shit.

a rebrand post in a non-rebrand thread....how refreshing

Lay off the drugs you one eyed freak and learn to read you illiterate tw*t. No rebrand mentioned you pillock

no?

but yeah thats a totally reasonable amount of abuse for an internet forum. you don't look ridiculous at all

I apologise. I'm frustrated as our club is shit, it's a plastic club and our fans are sell outs who seem more concerned about Swansea. The sooner our fans admit we are shit, Swansea are better, and tan needs to go the better. Until then I'm sick of everyone sucking his balls for a bit of coin.

In the post war era:-

Swansea 1 season on top 1947
Cardiff 2
Swansea 1
Cardiff 29
Swansea 4
Cardiff 3
Swansea 1
Cardiff 1
Swansea 10
Cardiff 2
Swansea 1
Cardiff 9
Swansea 4

Total Cardiff 46 - Swansea 21

It would be good going if you could repeat the 10 years on top you had until 1998 and I suppose you would definitely want to at least match the 9 years we had ahead of you up to 2010. Getting bigger attendances than us might also happen next year although unlikely.