When will Cardiff finish above Swansea next?

Was lots of talk of "one season in the sun" upon our promotion, then it turned into "second season syndrome".... Now it seems like the fourth season in a row we will finish above you which in turn (if relegated) guarantees a 5th consecutive one.

When do you think will be the next time you will finish above Swansea. If we can keep this to the question and not turn it into an anger filled thread that would be much appreciated, just trying to decipher the actual thoughts behind the bravado of the Cardiff fan.

Discuss.


*disclaimer - If not interested then this isnt the thread for you.

The natural order has been restored. It was always the way when I was a youngster. It was only scams money that changed it. To answer the question, who knows it could be two years it could be twenty so many variables.

Or you could both put a more measured statement together around rather than Sam's money you cheated the system twice and in the current climate you would have been considerably worse off for those indiscretions. Over the history of time we have generally been a bigger club but agreed that totally since the early 80's you have had the better of the history, that said don't disregard the 70 years of history before that. I suspect we'll go down, hopefully we can bounce back and be better for it and then who knows? You have survived this season, possibly affected by a semi successful European run but who knows? Hopefully we'll pass you in 12 months and then you can eat humble pie. Enjoy your summer and hopefully the obsession will diminish when we join the lower leagues again, on the other hand we can actually still finish above you, that would be funny.

Over the years..

Man U were on top
Then Liverpool
Then Man U
Now back to Liverpool.....

We were on top
Then you
Then us
Now it's you again.....


Pattern developing .... Do you see it?

The natural order has been restored. It was always the way when I was a youngster. It was only scams money that changed it. To answer the question, who knows it could be two years it could be twenty so many variables.

agree with this, its impossible to say. there's nothing to say you wont get relagated next year (despite your protests that you havent been in a relagation battle i think its safe to say that averaging 1pt per game is relagation form there or there abouts) and us get promoted, which would mean 2 seasons. OR we could stay up this season and finish above you next season (because lets be fair, i think you're 6pts above us at the moment...ot exactly a galaxy away)

but yeah it could be 10 years or it might never happen, although due to the relative size of our clubs statisticly we will finish above you again within the near future

Over the years..

Man U were on top
Then Liverpool
Then Man U
Now back to Liverpool.....

We were on top
Then you
Then us
Now it's you again.....


Pattern developing .... Do you see it?

That is not what I asked.

Over the years..

Man U were on top
Then Liverpool
Then Man U
Now back to Liverpool.....

We were on top
Then you
Then us
Now it's you again.....


Pattern developing .... Do you see it?

That is not what I asked.

If I could predict the future, I would be a lot richer than I am.

Truth is no one knows.

But probably won't be for a few seasons yet.

Hrmmm - would like to see your answer to your own question.

All depends on if we stay up. Could be next season - could be years. All depends on what league we are in and the summer transfers between the two teams.

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

bold statement for a team that currently sits just two wins above us in the league...in reality it might not even be 3 weeks let alone 20 years.

getting awfully big ideas for an awfully small club

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

bold statement for a team that currently sits just two wins above us in the league...in reality it might not even be 3 weeks let alone 20 years.

getting awfully big ideas for an awfully small club

Not just 6 points though, its a whole infrastructure. It will probably be more like 10 points come seasons end and that includes us playing about 20% more games - thats big.

The difference in finances between a Prem club and a championship one is insane especially now there is more money in the Prem.

Every year we stay in the Prem while you arent there grows the clubs coffers by about £30m more than you each year. That is massive, and that will be the reason why turning the tables will be incredibly difficult - without risking the future of your club that s.

That's Conjecture.
You have no idea what's in-store at either club.
Despite what you think, nothing is rosy in the background of either Club.

IF we can stay up this season we will build and become a mid table side IMO. I still think you may well (and should) finish above us next season if we stay up. To be honest I'm not 100% sure when, but I think fairly soon.

That's Conjecture.
You have no idea what's in-store at either club.
Despite what you think, nothing is rosy in the background of either Club.

Thats not conjecture. The gap between Prem clubs and football league clubs WILL increase due to the extra money.

I think the background of Swansea is more rosy than any other club in Britain right now. Genuinelly.

That's Conjecture.
You have no idea what's in-store at either club.
Despite what you think, nothing is rosy in the background of either Club.

Thats not conjecture. The gap between Prem clubs and football league clubs WILL increase due to the extra money.

I think the background of Swansea is more rosy than any other club in Britain right now. Genuinelly.

but history shows that no matter how good your infostructure is and how much money you make; if you can't get the fans through the turnstiles on a regular basis then you will stagnate. swansea are having possibly their best spell in their history (forgive me if you've had better...i don't know your history that well) and the amount of fans at european and cup games is a bit shite.

i don't want to get in to a debate about attendences because it is boring and always the same. But can you think of a team that have pushed on from mid table prem side with as small average attendences as yours?

If we stay up, I would say next season or the season after. The Swansea team isn't getting much better and I think they've reached their full potential. But even if we do get relegated I think it will only take 2/3 years.

If we stay up, I would say next season or the season after. The Swansea team isn't getting much better and I think they've reached their full potential. But even if we do get relegated I think it will only take 2/3 years.

just playing devils advocate here but what do you mean by "reached its full potential"?

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

That's Conjecture.

That's Conjecture.
You have no idea what's in-store at either club.
Despite what you think, nothing is rosy in the background of either Club.

Thats not conjecture. The gap between Prem clubs and football league clubs WILL increase due to the extra money.

I think the background of Swansea is more rosy than any other club in Britain right now. Genuinelly.

but history shows that no matter how good your infostructure is and how much money you make; if you can't get the fans through the turnstiles on a regular basis then you will stagnate. swansea are having possibly their best spell in their history (forgive me if you've had better...i don't know your history that well) and the amount of fans at european and cup games is a bit shite.

i don't want to get in to a debate about attendences because it is boring and always the same. But can you think of a team that have pushed on from mid table prem side with as small average attendences as yours?

Rubbish, that was when money through the gates was the life blood of the club.

Are you seriously suggesting that an extra 10,000 people (or £3 million post tax) will stagnate a club or kick it on? When incomes are £90m-£100m with the new sponsorship deal?

We are the most profitable club in the premier league. Attendances mean absolutely naff all in this day and age of sponsorship.

Too many of your fans are stuck in the dark ages, seriously now.

That's Conjecture.
You have no idea what's in-store at either club.
Despite what you think, nothing is rosy in the background of either Club.

Thats not conjecture. The gap between Prem clubs and football league clubs WILL increase due to the extra money.

I think the background of Swansea is more rosy than any other club in Britain right now. Genuinelly.

but history shows that no matter how good your infostructure is and how much money you make; if you can't get the fans through the turnstiles on a regular basis then you will stagnate. swansea are having possibly their best spell in their history (forgive me if you've had better...i don't know your history that well) and the amount of fans at european and cup games is a bit shite.

i don't want to get in to a debate about attendences because it is boring and always the same. But can you think of a team that have pushed on from mid table prem side with as small average attendences as yours?

Rubbish, that was when money through the gates was the life blood of the club.

Are you seriously suggesting that an extra 10,000 people (or £5 million pre tax) will stagnate a club?

We are the most profitable club in the premier league. Attendances mean absolutely naff all in this day and age of sponsorship.

Too many of your fans are stuck in the dark ages, seriously now.

where did i say "your attendences are cack so you wont have enough money to compete?" re read the post...

all im saying is that you may have £30m more than us each year that we remain a champ club, and you may have a fantastic infastructure behind the scenes. but so do many other small clubs and NONE of them reach the hights you're suggesting you will (or if they do it's temporary). why do you think swansea is different?

Well then im not sure what you mean by not getting high attendances will stagnate the club? I assumed you must mean finances?

What highs am I suggesting we will achieve? I haven't suggested reaching any highs apart from my opinion that being above you will be a sight seen for a long long time due to the differences in finances in Prem and champ clubs.

I dont know any other Orem club with the infrastructure we do. Maybe WBA but even then it is only an off field infrastructure where as ours has one on and off the field.

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

Haha piss off, what really makes you think that your going to finish above us for the next 20 years ? How can anyone predict that, especially how quick football can change these days.

I genuinely can't predict when we're going to finish above you next because our club is a shambles at the moment, with Coco in charge I don't know what direction we're going to take next. We'll be back though don't you worry.

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

Haha piss off, what really makes you think that your going to finish above us for the next 20 years ? How can anyone predict that, especially how quick football can change these days.

I genuinely can't predict when we're going to finish above you next because our club is a shambles at the moment, with Coco in charge I don't know what direction we're going to take next. We'll be back though don't you worry.

I just explained why i think that.

I know when it could be, thats obvious.

im asking when people think it will.

Me? I think this is the order for at least two decades.

bold statement for a team that currently sits just two wins above us in the league...in reality it might not even be 3 weeks let alone 20 years.

getting awfully big ideas for an awfully small club

Not just 6 points though, its a whole infrastructure. It will probably be more like 10 points come seasons end and that includes us playing about 20% more games - thats big.

The difference in finances between a Prem club and a championship one is insane especially now there is more money in the Prem.

Every year we stay in the Prem while you arent there grows the clubs coffers by about £30m more than you each year. That is massive, and that will be the reason why turning the tables will be incredibly difficult - without risking the future of your club that s.

Have you checked the foundations to these exhaulted foundations you speak of? The answer to your question cannot be answered fully without taking into consideration many, many variables. Variables which you seem to think weigh heavily in your favour, despite attempts from us mere mortals to the contrary.

That doesn't really make much sense.

The foundations of what we have worked to achieve arent important as they dont affect what happens as a result of them.

Well then im not sure what you mean by not getting high attendances will stagnate the club? I assumed you must mean finances?

What highs am I suggesting we will achieve? I haven't suggested reaching any highs apart from my opinion that being above you will be a sight seen for a long long time due to the differences in finances in Prem and champ clubs.

I dont know any other Orem club with the infrastructure we do. Maybe WBA but even then it is only an off field infrastructure where as ours has one on and off the field.

well you're either suggesting one of 2 things

1) swansea will kick on and become a regular top 10 side or more
2) or city will stay in the champ/slip down the leagues

if neither of these is the case then it stands to reason that our points difference will remain single figures when we are in the same division and, as mentioned earlier, statisticly we are bound to finish above you within the next 20 years.

so which of those two options do you think will ensure you a finish above us for 20 years? or do you think we'll both be there or there abouts and you constanly pip us by a few results...because you're a clever guy...you must see how unlikley that is

I remember hearing a few years ago when Stoke were going into their 4th year in the prem that the stats actually show that 2nd season syndrome isn;t much of a thing and that clubs are actually most likely to go down in their 4th season.

Not sure if that's true or whether it was just someone trying to get some money on Stoke going down.

I remember hearing a few years ago when Stoke were going into their 4th year in the prem that the stats actually show that 2nd season syndrome isn;t much of a thing and that clubs are actually most likely to go down in their 4th season.

Not sure if that's true or whether it was just someone trying to get some money on Stoke going down.

Not sure about that but first season syndrome can be a killer butt!

Well then im not sure what you mean by not getting high attendances will stagnate the club? I assumed you must mean finances?

What highs am I suggesting we will achieve? I haven't suggested reaching any highs apart from my opinion that being above you will be a sight seen for a long long time due to the differences in finances in Prem and champ clubs.

I dont know any other Orem club with the infrastructure we do. Maybe WBA but even then it is only an off field infrastructure where as ours has one on and off the field.

well you're either suggesting one of 2 things

1) swansea will kick on and become a regular top 10 side or more
2) or city will stay in the champ/slip down the leagues

if neither of these is the case then it stands to reason that our points difference will remain single figures when we are in the same division and, as mentioned earlier, statisticly we are bound to finish above you within the next 20 years.

so which of those two options do you think will ensure you a finish above us for 20 years? or do you think we'll both be there or there abouts and you constanly pip us by a few results...because you're a clever guy...you must see how unlikley that is

Im suggesting neither.

Our usual season brings 47 ish points, we have an even better side this year and would have gained even more should we have not had to play 60 matches including playing all over Europe in my opinion. You have 30 points and will probably be around the 33 point mark come seasons end. Thats a pretty big difference.

Our infrastructure allows sustainability, we can grow because of how we are run. You cant grow as you will always be handicapped by your debt, this is an intrinsic thing that takes decades to resolve as it is within your clubs and fans ethos to borrow in order to gain an advantage.

I fully expect a 45-50 point season next year considering we are not going to be in Europe and I dont feel you will get near that in decades, especially with the financial clout we will have over you and other championship sides.

If we stay up, I would say next season or the season after. The Swansea team isn't getting much better and I think they've reached their full potential. But even if we do get relegated I think it will only take 2/3 years.

just playing devils advocate here but what do you mean by "reached its full potential"?

In other words, I don't think they'll get any better than what they are