" MAY 2012 CCFC ACCOUNTS "

Annis,

You'll like this, but i agree with you.
The game changes if we go up.

VT will be in a position where he wants to take full control, (in shareholding terms as well as the 'de facto' position he has at the moment), so will need to pay Sam off, plus the £5m will get added to the debt.

Sam will therefore get more if we go up, but on the other hand maybe VT feels that it will be worth paying to have a Premiership club and the extortionate amount of extra income the club would get. Perhaps he thinks 'I'm not paying more than £10m if we are in the Champ, and if we don't go up by 2016 I'll put the club through unless he takes the £10m. IF we go up I'll take the debt-equity route, take over the club, pay Sam off in line with the agreement (shown in the accounts) £15m + £5 +£4-£5m interest, plus a lump for naming rights (near your £30m)... Sam pretty much gets back what he put in (plus maybe some shares/place on the board to sweeten the deal)... everyone's happy (apart from the kit colour )

Lets hope for the sake of all our sanities that it WILL be sorted.

Tim, I think your right Tan will prob think its now worth paying more to get rid of Sam as Tan will want full control as the club will be worth fortunes.
Your right as long as our club comes out on top thats all that matters.

Annis,

You'll like this, but i agree with you.
The game changes if we go up.

VT will be in a position where he wants to take full control, (in shareholding terms as well as the 'de facto' position he has at the moment), so will need to pay Sam off, plus the £5m will get added to the debt.

Sam will therefore get more if we go up, but on the other hand maybe VT feels that it will be worth paying to have a Premiership club and the extortionate amount of extra income the club would get. Perhaps he thinks 'I'm not paying more than £10m if we are in the Champ, and if we don't go up by 2016 I'll put the club through unless he takes the £10m. IF we go up I'll take the debt-equity route, take over the club, pay Sam off in line with the agreement (shown in the accounts) £15m + £5 +£4-£5m interest, plus a lump for naming rights (near your £30m)... Sam pretty much gets back what he put in (plus maybe some shares/place on the board to sweeten the deal)... everyone's happy (apart from the kit colour )

Lets hope for the sake of all our sanities that it WILL be sorted.

Tim, I think your right Tan will prob think its now worth paying more to get rid of Sam as Tan will want full control as the club will be worth fortunes.
Your right as long as our club comes out on top thats all that matters.

Yeah and this is why promotion is so important, and why so many of us have reluctantly put up with the colour change, because if we DON'T go up in the next 3 seasons we are in BIG trouble.

Lawnmower's assessment seems correct. 'Shit or bust' is nothing new though, it's been the case for some years now. The difference is the management, squad and financial backing is in place to finally achieve promotion. Without Mr Tan's investment it is almost certain that we would not have had the chance.

Keith aka Since 62 pm me the following.


There are 3 main issues here as far as I am concerned

1) we can`t keep on making losses at the rate we have for the last 3 years. Promotion will at least give the club a CHANCE of making money as our income should go up by at least £60m and our wage bill shouldn`t increase by as much as that. But it depends on how sensible the owners will be with the extra income or whather they spend it more recklessly.

2) the dispute with Sam/Langstone needs to be settled as that will make a big difference to the liabilities figure.Both sides are being ridiculous in their negotiations , like 2 little girls arguing over a doll - if one can`t have it they are threatening to break the doll

3) following on from 20 the conversion of debt to shares by VT needs to take place in full - not partly or over a period of time ,but all of it and straight away



Keith

im suprised that we are still making losses at the amount stated...

the club needs to increase its revenue which i can only see coming from promotion...

one thing im really worried by is this langston.... why didnt the club settle at the amount sam wanted earlier in the season if they knew they would pay nearly double if they reached promotion.. surely now sam wouldnt want to conclude any deal now but just knock on mr tans door come early may...

all i want to see also is a debt free club but the more this season goes on the more worrying the debt is and i have to say i have really taken 1 eye of the debt situation by focusing more on the current league position.. maybe thats for the better??

one thing regarding revenue, there is a huge amount more money going into the prem league next season to be split among the clubs, but i think that we should av considered increasing the capacity straight away on promotion as the demand for season tickets next season surely would increase by at least 10000... we already have 20000 and only a further 1000 for the non season tkt holders, new fans etc.. to fight over... i think with the 10 month interest free option many more fans will be able to buy a season ticket at roughly the cost of 1 match ticket a month surely increasing the demand now... why wait??

BBC

Cardiff City in £13.6m accounts loss for 2011/12

Cardiff City are 10 points clear at the top of the Championship, but losses off the field amounted to £13.6m in the year up to 31 May, 2012



Cardiff City recorded losses of £13.6m in the year up to the end of May 2012, according to the Championship club's latest financial accounts.

While turnover rose by £4m, including £2.3m from reaching the Carling Cup Final, other costs increased such as the wage bill and interest on loans.

Some £1.6m was paid out when manager Dave Jones and his staff were sacked in 2011 and Malky Mackay brought in.

The directors said many of the historic financial issues had been resolved.

The losses are an increase on the previous year's £11.8m deficit, but the club are currently 10 points clear in the Championship and will hope for a major financial boost from reaching the Premier League.



While their funding is not guaranteed, the new investors have indicated that providing the business develops as planned, they will continue to support the club in the foreseeable future ”

Cardiff City directors' report
Keith Morgan, a Cardiff City fan and director of Mazars accountancy firm, said the £13.6m loss was worrying, but the club's overall debt of just over £83m was not as serious as it first appeared.

The directors said in their report: "The club continues to face the challenging financial environment presented by the Championship competition, as illustrated by the operating loss year-on-year, despite significant turnover growth - these gains being absorbed by increased direct football costs.

"Since May 2010, the club has seen substantial new investment, principally from Malaysian businessmen, which has continued during the year to the end of May 2012 and thereafter.

"The new investment has stabilised the club's financial position, allowing the club to work towards the delivery of a coherent and sustainable business strategy, as formulated by the new board and its management team."

The directors admitted the immediate future contained "significant challenges" but the Malaysian investors had made further funds available and entered into negotiations with creditors to reschedule payment plans.

"In addition, while their funding is not guaranteed, the new investors have indicated that providing the business develops as planned, they will continue to support the club in the foreseeable future and provide additional finance in order that it can settle its liabilities," said the report.

Increased sponsorship
The club also hopes that the rebranding of the team's main colours from blue to red and featuring a dragon on the team badge will help secure "future commercial opportunities".

The accounts revealed that the Bluebirds' turnover was £17.5m for the year to last May, compared to £13.6m in 2011.

More than £2.3m of the increased turnover was attributed to the Bluebirds reaching the Carling Cup Final at Wembley, which they lost to Liverpool on penalties.

There was also increased sponsorship, including £1m in shirt sponsorship with the club carrying the "Malaysia" name.

But the boost in income was more than offset by increases in expenditure such as the wage bill for players and other staff. This reached £18.5m, up £5m on the figures for 2011.

Increases in administrative expenses and interest on loans also played a part.

The accounts also show that the debt to Langston, the company represented by ex-City owner Sam Hammam, is put at £19.2m, with a one-off payment of £5m due if City reach the Premier League while the debt is outstanding.

Mr Morgan said the losses showed the club could not run at Championship level sustainably, but added that the overall recorded debts of £83.1m "overstates the reality of the position".

He said £37.4m was due to Malaysian backer Vincent Tan and his associates, which would disappear if this was converted to shares.

The £19.2m due to Langston could also be "greatly overstated", said Mr Morgan, because there had been speculation about settling the debt for significantly less.

While turnover rose by £4m, including £2.3m from reaching the Carling Cup Final, other costs increased such as the wage bill and interest on loans.

While turnover rose by £4m, including £2.3m from reaching the Carling Cup Final, other costs increased such as the wage bill and interest on loans.

No one one seems to care about your wage bill rising Annis. Bizarre.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103424

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-21198131

While turnover rose by £4m, including £2.3m from reaching the Carling Cup Final, other costs increased such as the wage bill and interest on loans.

No one one seems to care about your wage bill rising Annis. Bizarre.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103424

Because most want Premier League football at any cost and after 51 years of waiting,its a dream come true to many.

While turnover rose by £4m, including £2.3m from reaching the Carling Cup Final, other costs increased such as the wage bill and interest on loans.

No one one seems to care about your wage bill rising Annis. Bizarre.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103424

Because most want Premier League football at any cost and after 51 years of waiting,its a dream come true to many.

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

wages will obviously increase if you buy the better players...



replacing players like, gypes, taiwo with gunnarsson and turner for example will obviously see an increase in the wages.. and i expect the wage bill to increase again in the next yrs accounts upto may13...

While turnover rose by £4m, including £2.3m from reaching the Carling Cup Final, other costs increased such as the wage bill and interest on loans.

No one one seems to care about your wage bill rising Annis. Bizarre.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103424

Because most want Premier League football at any cost and after 51 years of waiting,its a dream come true to many.

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

Great answer. Are you Peter Hain in disguise?

At £83 million recorded loss, with £37 million owed to VT, turned to equity that leaves £46 million, Langston debt is anything up to 15 million, not £19 million, so more like a debt of £42 million, £15 million of which is not due for 3 years. The accounts don't account for players as assets, they are surely worth £25 million, so we are £17 million in the shit, when all said and done. That is small change when we reach the Premiership. everything is rosey in the garden

That wage bill shows that maybe we didn't overachieve last season?

Maybe we actually achieved exactly what we should have considering the wages the players were on.

I bet the players Malky had at Watford were on a third of what he's had here.

At £83 million recorded loss, with £37 million owed to VT, turned to equity that leaves £46 million, Langston debt is anything up to 15 million, not £19 million, so more like a debt of £42 million, £15 million of which is not due for 3 years. The accounts don't account for players as assets, they are surely worth £25 million, so we are £17 million in the shit, when all said and done. That is small change when we reach the Premiership. everything is rosey in the garden

Exactly, Andy Carroll cost 45 million, in real terms our debt is Premiership peanuts.

While turnover rose by £4m, including £2.3m from reaching the Carling Cup Final, other costs increased such as the wage bill and interest on loans.

No one one seems to care about your wage bill rising Annis. Bizarre.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103424

Because most want Premier League football at any cost and after 51 years of waiting,its a dream come true to many.

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

So what are you saying? We're here aint we? and it looks like we are going uo as Fooking Champions

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

Knowing we have a club there to support may well depend on getting to the Premier League. So for us it is the by all and end all of football.

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

Knowing we have a club there to support may well depend on getting to the Premier League. So for us it is the by all and end all of football.

That's because you went down this road several years ago with the reckless spending of money you didn't have in the chase of the Premier League "dream" instead of living within your means and seeing where it takes you.

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

Knowing we have a club there to support may well depend on getting to the Premier League. So for us it is the by all and end all of football.

That's because you went down this road several years ago with the reckless spending of money you didn't have in the chase of the Premier League "dream" instead of living within your means and seeing where it takes you.

And what are you qualified in, stating the bleeding obvious

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

Knowing we have a club there to support may well depend on getting to the Premier League. So for us it is the by all and end all of football.

That's because you went down this road several years ago with the reckless spending of money you didn't have in the chase of the Premier League "dream" instead of living within your means and seeing where it takes you.

And what are you qualified in, stating the bleeding obvious

My point is, where were the questions regarding the spending 5, 6, 7, 8 years ago?

Debt is good I think the phrase was?

Its too late to panic now. We're either going to win the race to securing financial security or we're going to lose. Come May we may very well find the outcome of that race.

Worrying is what it is and its getting worse and has been for a long time.

It all seems to point to us getting promotion which a lot of people think we already have.

Its all been going on for years and its been getting worse for years.

Its over to Tan here and now to sort it and give us all a lot more confidence in him but I dont think he will pay f**k all off until we are promoted and who knows if he will then .

This position and rebranding us has lead me to be very angry with Tan .Time will tell in the end one way or the other but the here and now to me ain't good.

One of the daftest things Riddler did was the minute he took over from Sam the Riddler at least doubled Dave Jones wages plus extra bonuses Why?

One of the daftest things Riddler did was the minute he took over from Sam the Riddler at least doubled Dave Jones wages plus extra bonuses Why?

Someone came in for him didn't they Annis? Forget who...

Btw some great points in this thread from keith. Especially the point about increasing the capacity - whats your take on that annis?

One of the daftest things Riddler did was the minute he took over from Sam the Riddler at least doubled Dave Jones wages plus extra bonuses Why?

Someone came in for him didn't they Annis? Forget who...

Btw some great points in this thread from keith. Especially the point about increasing the capacity - whats your take on that annis?

WBA spk to DJ but he out priced himself.

I am surprised they are not increasing it this Summer, more than surprised as I feel now would be the prefect time, strike while the irons hot.

That's right west brom.

I'm 100%on with you on the seats. Makes no sense. Are they still finishing off the corners or whatever?

That's right west brom.

I'm 100%on with you on the seats. Makes no sense. Are they still finishing off the corners or whatever?

I am not sure how much of the corners, but they are def going to try and get it to 27,000, by adding seats everywhere they can.

Maybe Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, although with the parachute payments it doesn't make as much difference from a cashflow perspective

It's easy for me to say obviously but that is a ridiculous position for people to take. The PL is not the be all and end all of football. Knowing you'll have your club there to support at whatever level is far more important.

Knowing we have a club there to support may well depend on getting to the Premier League. So for us it is the by all and end all of football.

That's because you went down this road several years ago with the reckless spending of money you didn't have in the chase of the Premier League "dream" instead of living within your means and seeing where it takes you.

And what are you qualified in, stating the bleeding obvious

My point is, where were the questions regarding the spending 5, 6, 7, 8 years ago?

Debt is good I think the phrase was?

"Greed is Good" Gordon Gekko Wall Street 1987.

There were plenty of questions and even the odd protest march. Unfortunately you talk as if we run of the mill fans were in charge of the purse strings and went on a reckless spending spree. Well we weren't and instead we had 2 of football's most notorious Chairmen running the show, hence £50m or whatever debt.

That said as a club we showed amazing resilience by surviving everything that came our way and instead of taking the cowards route of Administration (remember that?) we are still around paying our bills including those to the HMRC and other creditors. Swansea take note because whatever you achieve it will be via taking the cowards and cheats way out.