The way this Country is going...

"This is a Muslim area." What utter bollocks

They should have responded with "This is a Christian country".

Out of interest, why would you hate to 'live/be brought up in London or other big cities in England'?

I could have sworn I was on the Daily Mail website for a minute then....

If this country is going to s**t then it has a lot to do with vile bigots as much as muslim extremists.

You seem to hate extremism but want to kick every single Muslim out of the country? Well, thats extremism talk.

NO!! Be a muslim by all means, be a Christian by all means.

But evolve, or f**k OFF!!

In what ways do you think Islam has evolved as a religion in the U.K.?

Islam WILL NOT integrate with Christianity or any other religion.

If you want a CAST IRON impression of Islam, go to Mecca and see for yourself
how they treat Christians.

Thats a joke by the way, because CHRISTIANS ARE NOT ALLOWED INTO MECCA OR
ON THE SURROUNDING ROADS, AS WE ARE DEEMED ''INFIDEL''

What message does that send out to the rank and file Muslims all over the World??

They are TAUGHT that we are lesser beings

A Christian complaining about lack of evolution

In the Christian World, men women and Children are allowed to question the writings
of the bible. They can agree/disagree, they can find fault in the Bible and are not afraid
to say "THATS WRONG"... Id say thats evolution of a religion, or at the very least, the way
in which we are permitted to debate it.

Now... guess what would happen if a Pakistani feller wrote into the "Karachi Times"
and said that the Q'uran is pretty much full of bollocks.

Go on... what do YOU think would happen to that man

That is such an easy way out.

I have the same opinion on Christianity as Islam, but at least they believe in something.

I could have sworn I was on the Daily Mail website for a minute then....

If this country is going to s**t then it has a lot to do with vile bigots as much as muslim extremists.

You seem to hate extremism but want to kick every single Muslim out of the country? Well, thats extremism talk.

NO!! Be a muslim by all means, be a Christian by all means.

But evolve, or f**k OFF!!

In what ways do you think Islam has evolved as a religion in the U.K.?

Islam WILL NOT integrate with Christianity or any other religion.

If you want a CAST IRON impression of Islam, go to Mecca and see for yourself
how they treat Christians.

Thats a joke by the way, because CHRISTIANS ARE NOT ALLOWED INTO MECCA OR
ON THE SURROUNDING ROADS, AS WE ARE DEEMED ''INFIDEL''

What message does that send out to the rank and file Muslims all over the World??

They are TAUGHT that we are lesser beings

A Christian complaining about lack of evolution

In the Christian World, men women and Children are allowed to question the writings
of the bible. They can agree/disagree, they can find fault in the Bible and are not afraid
to say "THATS WRONG"... Id say thats evolution of a religion, or at the very least, the way
in which we are permitted to debate it.

Now... guess what would happen if a Pakistani feller wrote into the "Karachi Times"
and said that the Q'uran is pretty much full of bollocks.

Go on... what do YOU think would happen to that man

That is such an easy way out.

I have the same opinion on Christianity as Islam, but at least they believe in something.

Because I come up with something you cannot answer its "an easy way out"... thats not how debating
works mate. You have no answer, because there IS no answer.

"at least they believe in something"

Britain was built on freedom of speech, freedom to debate, agree, disagree with any given subject.
But LAWS have been changed, mindsets have shifted in order that the very mention of Islam in a
negative light is deemed RACIST by society. When in fact the Q'uran is so full of hypocrisy, holes
and innacuracies that it SCREAMS to be debated. This is Great Britain, you surely cannot be able to
describe a BOOK as perfect and expect everyone to say "well if thats what you think, I'm saying nothing!"

Taffy you need to brush up on your British history if you think that this country was built on 'freedom of speech, freedom to debate, and the freedom to 'agree, disagree with any given subject'

Of course it needs to be debated and full of ridiculous ideas, its religion. I am not defending them and am not on thier side.
I just can't stand people who know next to nothing about thier beliefs apart from what the bigoted British press say and speak like experts with the same soundbites as "evidence" ('we should do what Australia does" "they wont let christians into Mecca')
I also can't stand "christians" who complain about extremists and outdated views, yet never mention the Wetboro Baptist Church or the struggle for gays to get married or women to become priests in the 21st century.
My point was that these Muslims have a book that tells them how to live, they believe this with thier heart and soul. Part time Christians also have a book like this but when someone calls them on its obvious bullshit, they just go "ah yeah, we dont believe THAT bit any more." It either happened, or it didnt, you believe it or you dont.
As a man of God you can not tell other people what to believe.

Taffy you need to brush up on your British history if you think that this country was built on 'freedom of speech, freedom to debate, and the freedom to 'agree, disagree with any given subject'

In principal. Those were the beliefs Britain was built upon. Obviously in practice
it isnt a 'free' country even today. The Islamic debate itself is evidence of this. But
as a template, that WAS the idea. I am quite clued up on Welsh/British History.

Taffy you need to brush up on your British history if you think that this country was built on 'freedom of speech, freedom to debate, and the freedom to 'agree, disagree with any given subject'

In principal. Those were the beliefs Britain was built upon. Obviously in practice
it isnt a 'free' country even today. The Islamic debate itself is evidence of this. But
as a template, that WAS the idea. I am quite clued up on Welsh/British History.

Well if you view the Reformation as a starting point like most historians, then it's entirely the opposite. Years of violent conflict arising from religious disputes ironically. I fail to see where this 'idea' of freedom is coming from? In fact, I would argue that the kind of freedoms you mention were not implemented until at least the 19th century, and that is in their most basic forms.

Of course it needs to be debated and full of ridiculous ideas, its religion. I am not defending them and am not on thier side.
I just can't stand people who know next to nothing about thier beliefs apart from what the bigoted British press say and speak like experts with the same soundbites as "evidence" ('we should do what Australia does" "they wont let christians into Mecca')
I also can't stand "christians" who complain about extremists and outdated views, yet never mention the Wetboro Baptist Church or the struggle for gays to get married or women to become priests in the 21st century.
My point was that these Muslims have a book that tells them how to live, they believe this with thier heart and soul. Part time Christians also have a book like this but when someone calls them on its obvious bullshit, they just go "ah yeah, we dont believe THAT bit any more." It either happened, or it didnt, you believe it or you dont.
As a man of God you can not tell other people what to believe.

I never discuss subjects I havent looked into. I am not Angry Man. The British
press is bigoted how? It attacks anything 'allegedly' right wing with a passion.

Extremists such as the Westboro Baptists need stringing up. But they are such a small
minority and are denounced across the board in America. They are an unfunny joke!!

The crux of the matter is that people are so quick to defend Islam and Muslims but
ignore the fact that their CORE BELIEF is STILL to make the World a Muslim World.

Christianity has evolved into a 'live and let live' system of beliefs.

Islam most definitely has not, not will it until they STOP believing that the Q'uran is
a 'perfect book' it is a ridiculous and frightening concept, and leaves uneducated Muslims
wide open to the hate mongers within the religion. More frightening is the fact they
cannot question anything quoted from the book.

the whole concept of Islam is alien to the way we have lived our lives for hundreds of years

"The Life Of Brian" - one of the funniest films ive ever seen.

If somebody even mentioned doing a parody of Mohammeds life.... they would have the whole
Muslim World calling for their head!

Fine. Dont do it in Pakistan, Saudi or Iran.

But this is Britain. We have bent over and given up our right to free speech sooner than allow the
criticism of a backward, stone-age dogma

Taffy you need to brush up on your British history if you think that this country was built on 'freedom of speech, freedom to debate, and the freedom to 'agree, disagree with any given subject'

In principal. Those were the beliefs Britain was built upon. Obviously in practice
it isnt a 'free' country even today. The Islamic debate itself is evidence of this. But
as a template, that WAS the idea. I am quite clued up on Welsh/British History.

Well if you view the Reformation as a starting point like most historians, then it's entirely the opposite. Years of violent conflict arising from religious disputes ironically. I fail to see where this 'idea' of freedom is coming from? In fact, I would argue that the kind of freedoms you mention were not implemented until at least the 19th century, and that is in their most basic forms.

Argue away, but you'll be arguing with yourself. Cos i agree.

The whole point is... We have evolved, hundreds of years ago into a Country where tolerance and freedom
of speech and expression was valued and protected. Sadly, we now seem to be going backwards

Taffy you need to brush up on your British history if you think that this country was built on 'freedom of speech, freedom to debate, and the freedom to 'agree, disagree with any given subject'

In principal. Those were the beliefs Britain was built upon. Obviously in practice
it isnt a 'free' country even today. The Islamic debate itself is evidence of this. But
as a template, that WAS the idea. I am quite clued up on Welsh/British History.

Well if you view the Reformation as a starting point like most historians, then it's entirely the opposite. Years of violent conflict arising from religious disputes ironically. I fail to see where this 'idea' of freedom is coming from? In fact, I would argue that the kind of freedoms you mention were not implemented until at least the 19th century, and that is in their most basic forms.

Argue away, but you'll be arguing with yourself. Cos i agree.

The whole point is... We have evolved, hundreds of years ago into a Country where tolerance and freedom
of speech and expression was valued and protected. Sadly, we now seem to be going backwards

Yes we have evolved as you say.

However I am disputing your strange suggestion that Britain was built on the 'principals' of 'freedom of speech' and expression which is false.

Taffy you need to brush up on your British history if you think that this country was built on 'freedom of speech, freedom to debate, and the freedom to 'agree, disagree with any given subject'

In principal. Those were the beliefs Britain was built upon. Obviously in practice
it isnt a 'free' country even today. The Islamic debate itself is evidence of this. But
as a template, that WAS the idea. I am quite clued up on Welsh/British History.

Well if you view the Reformation as a starting point like most historians, then it's entirely the opposite. Years of violent conflict arising from religious disputes ironically. I fail to see where this 'idea' of freedom is coming from? In fact, I would argue that the kind of freedoms you mention were not implemented until at least the 19th century, and that is in their most basic forms.

Argue away, but you'll be arguing with yourself. Cos i agree.


The whole point is... We have evolved, hundreds of years ago into a Country where tolerance and freedom
of speech and expression was valued and protected. Sadly, we now seem to be going backwards

Yes we have evolved as you say.

However I am disputing your strange suggestion that Britain was built on the 'principals' of 'freedom of speech' and expression which is false.

Well 'Modern' Britain then. It was a figure of speech. Obviously, in the middle ages Britain was
as wrapped up in religious dogma, witchcraft etc as everywhere else in the World

Here we go again, same argument again ad infinitum. In the last few months here in the UK where we live there have been kids raped and murdered, at least one OAP raped and murdered (or at least the trial is running now), there have been yet more stories of Christian Vicars raping/buggering altar boys, an entire of list of celebrities facing historical allegations of rape, a number of murders, father and son rape partnership, a women in Devon charged with murdering a 2 year old!! There are countless other crimes I have not mentioned no doubt, yet we are shown a clip of a group of thugs threatening passersby as an example of the UK going to the dogs....and not any thugs and louts but "Muslim" ones!!!
If a crime is committed by a Muslim does that make it more of a crime??
Are we going to have an article every time a "Muslim" commits a crime??

Also who is "preaching hate"? I'd say the EDL definitely do but they're a legal body protected by the law. Google their marches on Youtube and you see who's preaching hate. Some of the posters/articles on here are absolutely hateful. If there are Muslims preaching hate or "plotting to blow us up" and you KNOW that take your evidence to the Police and I'm sure they will prosecute them otherwise maybe your information is not from very well informed sources and probably is not accurate.

As I've said before these articles blaming 'the other' or 'look how shit other people are' usually take this same path, if you want to learn about Islam DON'T listen to some of the ill-informed Islamophobes on here or elsewhere - there are plenty of websites, chat rooms, places to turn. If you know a practising Muslim ask him/her. I'm always talking about Islam to my work colleagues or friends correcting their views on my religion or at least putting it in context.

As we've seen before on this MB any tom, dick or harry can put up a misleading rabble-rousing article or quote designed to cause hatred/fear of Muslims/Islam and have unthinking people bleat their approval.

It's very easy to demonise Muslims/Islam (like the Nazis did with the Jews/Judaism did before the Holocaust) and its easy to hate or to get society via media conditioning and lazy minds to hate but to understand takes a little effort.

Furthermore many people (from all backgrounds) in the UK have converted to or at least understood Islam once they've actually studied it a while and many of them also had preconceived negative views of Islam and given the virtual war declared on Islam/Muslims in the media and press it's easy to understand why that is.

Finally to the Islamophobes whether you like it or not Islam is here to stay, you can't eradicate it from peoples hearts even by 'ethnic cleansing' (like the Serbs tried in the Balkans a few years back), no one can 'suss' it out or "prove" it wrong and it will continue to grow and so learn to deal with it or choke on your hatred.

Here we go again, same argument again ad infinitum. In the last few months here in the UK where we live there have been kids raped and murdered, at least one OAP raped and murdered (or at least the trial is running now), there have been yet more stories of Christian Vicars raping/buggering altar boys, an entire of list of celebrities facing historical allegations of rape, a number of murders, father and son rape partnership, a women in Devon charged with murdering a 2 year old!! There are countless other crimes I have not mentioned no doubt, yet we are shown a clip of a group of thugs threatening passersby as an example of the UK going to the dogs....and not any thugs and louts but "Muslim" ones!!!
If a crime is committed by a Muslim does that make it more of a crime??
Are we going to have an article every time a "Muslim" commits a crime??

Also who is "preaching hate"? I'd say the EDL definitely do but they're a legal body protected by the law. Google their marches on Youtube and you see who's preaching hate. Some of the posters/articles on here are absolutely hateful. If there are Muslims preaching hate or "plotting to blow us up" and you KNOW that take your evidence to the Police and I'm sure they will prosecute them otherwise maybe your information is not from very well informed sources and probably is not accurate.

As I've said before these articles blaming 'the other' or 'look how shit other people are' usually take this same path, if you want to learn about Islam DON'T listen to some of the ill-informed Islamophobes on here or elsewhere - there are plenty of websites, chat rooms, places to turn. If you know a practising Muslim ask him/her. I'm always talking about Islam to my work colleagues or friends correcting their views on my religion or at least putting it in context.

As we've seen before on this MB any tom, dick or harry can put up a misleading rabble-rousing article or quote designed to cause hatred/fear of Muslims/Islam and have unthinking people bleat their approval.

It's very easy to demonise Muslims/Islam (like the Nazis did with the Jews/Judaism did before the Holocaust) and its easy to hate or to get society via media conditioning and lazy minds to hate but to understand takes a little effort.

Furthermore many people (from all backgrounds) in the UK have converted to or at least understood Islam once they've actually studied it a while and many of them also had preconceived negative views of Islam and given the virtual war declared on Islam/Muslims in the media and press it's easy to understand why that is.

Finally to the Islamophobes whether you like it or not Islam is here to stay, you can't eradicate it from peoples hearts even by 'ethnic cleansing' (like the Serbs tried in the Balkans a few years back), no one can 'suss' it out or "prove" it wrong and it will continue to grow and so learn to deal with it or choke on your hatred.

Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches...
all daily occurrences in Countries with Sharia law. so dont try pinning us down as some kind
of 'loose' society. At least a woman can go to the police in Britain without getting accused of
adultery and getting punished more than her attackers.

anyway the only point here is.

If Islam does not think it is so superior to us 'low-life' infidels.....

Why are Christians not allowed to visit Mecca?

Why are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists not allowed to visit Mecca?

Do muslims believe they are equal, or above Christians in the eyes of God?

See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which
silly book they read!!

Here we go again, same argument again ad infinitum. In the last few months here in the UK where we live there have been kids raped and murdered, at least one OAP raped and murdered (or at least the trial is running now), there have been yet more stories of Christian Vicars raping/buggering altar boys, an entire of list of celebrities facing historical allegations of rape, a number of murders, father and son rape partnership, a women in Devon charged with murdering a 2 year old!! There are countless other crimes I have not mentioned no doubt, yet we are shown a clip of a group of thugs threatening passersby as an example of the UK going to the dogs....and not any thugs and louts but "Muslim" ones!!!
If a crime is committed by a Muslim does that make it more of a crime??
Are we going to have an article every time a "Muslim" commits a crime??

Also who is "preaching hate"? I'd say the EDL definitely do but they're a legal body protected by the law. Google their marches on Youtube and you see who's preaching hate. Some of the posters/articles on here are absolutely hateful. If there are Muslims preaching hate or "plotting to blow us up" and you KNOW that take your evidence to the Police and I'm sure they will prosecute them otherwise maybe your information is not from very well informed sources and probably is not accurate.

As I've said before these articles blaming 'the other' or 'look how shit other people are' usually take this same path, if you want to learn about Islam DON'T listen to some of the ill-informed Islamophobes on here or elsewhere - there are plenty of websites, chat rooms, places to turn. If you know a practising Muslim ask him/her. I'm always talking about Islam to my work colleagues or friends correcting their views on my religion or at least putting it in context.

As we've seen before on this MB any tom, dick or harry can put up a misleading rabble-rousing article or quote designed to cause hatred/fear of Muslims/Islam and have unthinking people bleat their approval.

It's very easy to demonise Muslims/Islam (like the Nazis did with the Jews/Judaism did before the Holocaust) and its easy to hate or to get society via media conditioning and lazy minds to hate but to understand takes a little effort.

Furthermore many people (from all backgrounds) in the UK have converted to or at least understood Islam once they've actually studied it a while and many of them also had preconceived negative views of Islam and given the virtual war declared on Islam/Muslims in the media and press it's easy to understand why that is.

Finally to the Islamophobes whether you like it or not Islam is here to stay, you can't eradicate it from peoples hearts even by 'ethnic cleansing' (like the Serbs tried in the Balkans a few years back), no one can 'suss' it out or "prove" it wrong and it will continue to grow and so learn to deal with it or choke on your hatred.

Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches...
all daily occurrences in Countries with Sharia law. so dont try pinning us down as some kind
of 'loose' society. At least a woman can go to the police in Britain without getting accused of
adultery and getting punished more than her attackers.

anyway the only point here is.

If Islam does not think it is so superior to us 'low-life' infidels.....

Why are Christians not allowed to visit Mecca?

Why are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists not allowed to visit Mecca?

Do muslims believe they are equal, or above Christians in the eyes of God?

See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which
silly book they read!!

The problem is these countries do NOT have Sharia law!! The may say they do, like some fanatics who then go and kill their fellow Muslims or some ignorant villagers who set up extra-judicial "courts" even though they have no relevant Islamic qualifications or credentials. There are problems in the Muslim world and they need solving and they will be solved but it takes time and besides I live in Britain and the article I responded to was about Britain.

"Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches..." these are all condemned by Islam and the punishment is very severe for them.
The point is the article started off about Muslims in UK, and I wrote about crime in the UK to emphasise the point that the clip shown was a relatively minor case of thuggish behaviour but it was used unfairly to justify hatred/fear of Islam/Muslims.


In the Muslim world there are criminal and vagabonds (like everywhere else) who do all kind of things, what has that got to do with Islam?
As for the woman point, you work in Saudia, I challenge you to go to any Saudia women and say something insulting to her in front of her male relatives....you know and I know that you would end up very seriously injured, so amongst most Muslim men they defend their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers - of course some are scum bags like everywhere else.

"so dont try pinning us down as some kind of 'loose' society", what are you talking about?? who done that?? Maybe you have an inferiority complex, that's your problem and I don't care but don't put word in my mouth. Read what I say carefully and don't twist things to further your arguments. If you consider yourself a 'lowlife' then that's up to you don't drag all these other groups into it, like you are the champion of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists.

I've been told by Christians (Jehovah Witnesses usually) that since I'm a disbeliever (an infidel) I won't go to heaven...do I care..no, because i don't believe in that I believe in Islam, that's the whole point of religions...everyone believes they're right innit? "Chosen people" anyone? Why is it only Muslims are hammered for believing they're right and others are wrong in their beliefs. We've all got belief's which we feel are right, as long as we're not rabble rousing or physically attacking people for them what's wrong with that as long as we live within the law of the land.

As for the Holy Mosque/area in Mecca, yes non-believers are not allowed in there but there are non-Muslims living all over the Islamic world, there are Arab Christians and other miniorities who have lived alongside Muslims for centuries in tolerance before Western Europe became Christian. The Jews used to flee European persecution to Muslim lands. Why do you want to visit the Holy Mosque in Mecca anyway or is this just some kind of convenient stick to use? Can I go to the Vatican? I don't know but I don't want to because it means nothing to me as a dis-believer, just like Mecca means nothing to you as dis-believer. You got plenty of mosques here you can visit, I can take you and anyone else on a guided tour of our mosque here in Butetown (the Docks Mosque) when I have time.


"See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which silly book they read!!"....judging from your articles on Muslims that's laughable, you use every possible occasion to have a go. If an INDIVIDUAL or GROUP of individuals do or say something bad attack them individually, don't go attacking Muslims/Islams with your irrational arguments (e.g. from above "their CORE BELIEF is STILL to make the World a Muslim World"...lol..is that ignorance or are you yet again rabble-rousing?).

Previously you have said you work/live in Saudia Arabia...are you under attack for your beliefs?, do you fear from your life?
Are the individual Muslims so horrible and bad to you?? And even if you have had bad experiences can you justifiably throw that onto the collective responsibility of 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide across tens of countries and a religion that has contributed so much to the world in terms of Civilisation, Science, Mathematics, Astronomy, Architecture etc etc??

my boys is out in Afgan, what the f**k for? i hate these cunts i will drive the lorry who wants to help put them in the back.

It's not a Muslim area, it's f*cking Britain....

Look at this, this is what our country is turning out like, Id hate to live or be brought up in london and other big cities in england, how long will it be before it comes to wales and they start taking over

The goverment need to act, but they won't, too scared! gutless

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21153042

There are also white anti gay vigilantes. There are more crimes of hate/racism carried out by white people in the UK than Muslims. Fact.

Don't know Why people can't learn to live with people of different race and cultures peacefully. Ignorance is the issue, not the persons nationality.

White anti-gay vigilantes? where? Show me the evidence.

Stop sticking up for Islamist nutcases who SHIT on democracy.

Islam should be banned, until every Muslim in Britain is forced to admit that the very idea that
the Q'uran is a PERFECT book is a load of bollocks. THEN they can evolve

The Q'uran is the same as the Bible, some good bits, some bad bits, some absolute bollocks and evil!

But we can say that about the Bible without getting 'fatwah's issued on our heads

Islam is a foul idealogical entity that needs locking back up in the third century

couldnt have put it better myself, well said

The majority of the conservative party and the catholic church are anti gay. The EDL and I.R.A. In the U.S there are many anti gay groups.

The comment made about Muslims 'blowing us up' is such a ignorant comment. The majority of Muslims are kind, welcoming and also benefit our economy. There are only a small minority who preach hate against the western world.

The Catholic Church is not anti-gay so you can scrub that one off your list.

In response to the above, this is taken from an article in The Independent.

"A number of schools across the Lancashire region distributed a booklet to pupils with the enticing title “Pure Manhood: How to Become the Man God Wants You to Be.” This US publication, discussed a boy dealing with homosexual attractions, that suggested, could stem from “an unhealthy relationship with his father, an inability to relate to other guys or even sexual abuse.” It went on to claim that the homosexual act is “disordered” and was directed against “God’s natural purpose for sex – babies and bonding.”

How you can possibly describe this as anything other than homophobic is beyond belief.

In response to the above, this is taken from an article in The Independent.

"A number of schools across the Lancashire region distributed a booklet to pupils with the enticing title “Pure Manhood: How to Become the Man God Wants You to Be.” This US publication, discussed a boy dealing with homosexual attractions, that suggested, could stem from “an unhealthy relationship with his father, an inability to relate to other guys or even sexual abuse.” It went on to claim that the homosexual act is “disordered” and was directed against “God’s natural purpose for sex – babies and bonding.”

How you can possibly describe this as anything other than homophobic is beyond belief.

where does it say Catholic there dont confuse different denominations, being from America its probably Baptist but hey lets not confuse issues.

In response to the above, this is taken from an article in The Independent.

"A number of schools across the Lancashire region distributed a booklet to pupils with the enticing title “Pure Manhood: How to Become the Man God Wants You to Be.” This US publication, discussed a boy dealing with homosexual attractions, that suggested, could stem from “an unhealthy relationship with his father, an inability to relate to other guys or even sexual abuse.” It went on to claim that the homosexual act is “disordered” and was directed against “God’s natural purpose for sex – babies and bonding.”

How you can possibly describe this as anything other than homophobic is beyond belief.

where does it say Catholic there dont confuse different denominations, being from America its probably Baptist but hey lets not confuse issues.

The article is about Catholic schools in the UK promoting homophobia.

In response to the above, this is taken from an article in The Independent.

"A number of schools across the Lancashire region distributed a booklet to pupils with the enticing title “Pure Manhood: How to Become the Man God Wants You to Be.” This US publication, discussed a boy dealing with homosexual attractions, that suggested, could stem from “an unhealthy relationship with his father, an inability to relate to other guys or even sexual abuse.” It went on to claim that the homosexual act is “disordered” and was directed against “God’s natural purpose for sex – babies and bonding.”

How you can possibly describe this as anything other than homophobic is beyond belief.

where does it say Catholic there dont confuse different denominations, being from America its probably Baptist but hey lets not confuse issues.

I do apologise its a Jason Evert book. This guy has some pretty weird notions on sex full stop let alone it be heterosexual or homosexual.

Hes not a priest so is not a spokesperson for the Catholic church. Now he is free to say what he wants and publish books whether you agree with them or not, but I would like you to tell me how the Catholic Church is anti-gay how it victimises gay people specifically.
Now I know your not religious but your not going to win this one.

In response to the above, this is taken from an article in The Independent.

"A number of schools across the Lancashire region distributed a booklet to pupils with the enticing title “Pure Manhood: How to Become the Man God Wants You to Be.” This US publication, discussed a boy dealing with homosexual attractions, that suggested, could stem from “an unhealthy relationship with his father, an inability to relate to other guys or even sexual abuse.” It went on to claim that the homosexual act is “disordered” and was directed against “God’s natural purpose for sex – babies and bonding.”

How you can possibly describe this as anything other than homophobic is beyond belief.

where does it say Catholic there dont confuse different denominations, being from America its probably Baptist but hey lets not confuse issues.

The article is about Catholic schools in the UK promoting homophobia.

I havent read the book dont really want to have had a quick look on youtube about him and without being an expert on the man it appears he promotes chastity more than anything, but as I havent read the book I wont praise it or condemn it as it wouldnt be fair.

the only thing that settles here and dont claim benefit. is snow

Here we go again, same argument again ad infinitum. In the last few months here in the UK where we live there have been kids raped and murdered, at least one OAP raped and murdered (or at least the trial is running now), there have been yet more stories of Christian Vicars raping/buggering altar boys, an entire of list of celebrities facing historical allegations of rape, a number of murders, father and son rape partnership, a women in Devon charged with murdering a 2 year old!! There are countless other crimes I have not mentioned no doubt, yet we are shown a clip of a group of thugs threatening passersby as an example of the UK going to the dogs....and not any thugs and louts but "Muslim" ones!!!
If a crime is committed by a Muslim does that make it more of a crime??
Are we going to have an article every time a "Muslim" commits a crime??

Also who is "preaching hate"? I'd say the EDL definitely do but they're a legal body protected by the law. Google their marches on Youtube and you see who's preaching hate. Some of the posters/articles on here are absolutely hateful. If there are Muslims preaching hate or "plotting to blow us up" and you KNOW that take your evidence to the Police and I'm sure they will prosecute them otherwise maybe your information is not from very well informed sources and probably is not accurate.

As I've said before these articles blaming 'the other' or 'look how shit other people are' usually take this same path, if you want to learn about Islam DON'T listen to some of the ill-informed Islamophobes on here or elsewhere - there are plenty of websites, chat rooms, places to turn. If you know a practising Muslim ask him/her. I'm always talking about Islam to my work colleagues or friends correcting their views on my religion or at least putting it in context.

As we've seen before on this MB any tom, dick or harry can put up a misleading rabble-rousing article or quote designed to cause hatred/fear of Muslims/Islam and have unthinking people bleat their approval.

It's very easy to demonise Muslims/Islam (like the Nazis did with the Jews/Judaism did before the Holocaust) and its easy to hate or to get society via media conditioning and lazy minds to hate but to understand takes a little effort.

Furthermore many people (from all backgrounds) in the UK have converted to or at least understood Islam once they've actually studied it a while and many of them also had preconceived negative views of Islam and given the virtual war declared on Islam/Muslims in the media and press it's easy to understand why that is.

Finally to the Islamophobes whether you like it or not Islam is here to stay, you can't eradicate it from peoples hearts even by 'ethnic cleansing' (like the Serbs tried in the Balkans a few years back), no one can 'suss' it out or "prove" it wrong and it will continue to grow and so learn to deal with it or choke on your hatred.

Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches...
all daily occurrences in Countries with Sharia law. so dont try pinning us down as some kind
of 'loose' society. At least a woman can go to the police in Britain without getting accused of
adultery and getting punished more than her attackers.

anyway the only point here is.

If Islam does not think it is so superior to us 'low-life' infidels.....

Why are Christians not allowed to visit Mecca?

Why are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists not allowed to visit Mecca?

Do muslims believe they are equal, or above Christians in the eyes of God?

See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which
silly book they read!!

The problem is these countries do NOT have Sharia law!! The may say they do, like some fanatics who then go and kill their fellow Muslims or some ignorant villagers who set up extra-judicial "courts" even though they have no relevant Islamic qualifications or credentials. There are problems in the Muslim world and they need solving and they will be solved but it takes time and besides I live in Britain and the article I responded to was about Britain.

"Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches..." these are all condemned by Islam and the punishment is very severe for them.
The point is the article started off about Muslims in UK, and I wrote about crime in the UK to emphasise the point that the clip shown was a relatively minor case of thuggish behaviour but it was used unfairly to justify hatred/fear of Islam/Muslims.


In the Muslim world there are criminal and vagabonds (like everywhere else) who do all kind of things, what has that got to do with Islam?
As for the woman point, you work in Saudia, I challenge you to go to any Saudia women and say something insulting to her in front of her male relatives....you know and I know that you would end up very seriously injured, so amongst most Muslim men they defend their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers - of course some are scum bags like everywhere else.

"so dont try pinning us down as some kind of 'loose' society", what are you talking about?? who done that?? Maybe you have an inferiority complex, that's your problem and I don't care but don't put word in my mouth. Read what I say carefully and don't twist things to further your arguments. If you consider yourself a 'lowlife' then that's up to you don't drag all these other groups into it, like you are the champion of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists.

I've been told by Christians (Jehovah Witnesses usually) that since I'm a disbeliever (an infidel) I won't go to heaven...do I care..no, because i don't believe in that I believe in Islam, that's the whole point of religions...everyone believes they're right innit? "Chosen people" anyone? Why is it only Muslims are hammered for believing they're right and others are wrong in their beliefs. We've all got belief's which we feel are right, as long as we're not rabble rousing or physically attacking people for them what's wrong with that as long as we live within the law of the land.

As for the Holy Mosque/area in Mecca, yes non-believers are not allowed in there but there are non-Muslims living all over the Islamic world, there are Arab Christians and other miniorities who have lived alongside Muslims for centuries in tolerance before Western Europe became Christian. The Jews used to flee European persecution to Muslim lands. Why do you want to visit the Holy Mosque in Mecca anyway or is this just some kind of convenient stick to use? Can I go to the Vatican? I don't know but I don't want to because it means nothing to me as a dis-believer, just like Mecca means nothing to you as dis-believer. You got plenty of mosques here you can visit, I can take you and anyone else on a guided tour of our mosque here in Butetown (the Docks Mosque) when I have time.


"See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which silly book they read!!"....judging from your articles on Muslims that's laughable, you use every possible occasion to have a go. If an INDIVIDUAL or GROUP of individuals do or say something bad attack them individually, don't go attacking Muslims/Islams with your irrational arguments (e.g. from above "their CORE BELIEF is STILL to make the World a Muslim World"...lol..is that ignorance or are you yet again rabble-rousing?).

Previously you have said you work/live in Saudia Arabia...are you under attack for your beliefs?, do you fear from your life?
Are the individual Muslims so horrible and bad to you?? And even if you have had bad experiences can you justifiably throw that onto the collective responsibility of 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide across tens of countries and a religion that has contributed so much to the world in terms of Civilisation, Science, Mathematics, Astronomy, Architecture etc etc??

The Vatican? Of course your allowed in if your Muslim. Why wouldnt you be? We do
not look upon Muslims as unclean. Now tell us all again why other religions are not allowed to
enter Mecca (or even the surrounding highways!!)

Apart from that? Big speech!!

YOU entered this thread with a tirade against Western Morals and the High Crime rates
in the UK. You neglected the most important part about the Sharia/rape etc.

A woman CANNOT report a rape in a Sharia led country unless she has witnesses. Because
her word is not WORTH that of a man. Or she will end up being stoned/beaten executed
for adultery herself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLN11ym5 ... criminals/

Beautiful Islam? You can keep it lad

Here we go again, same argument again ad infinitum. In the last few months here in the UK where we live there have been kids raped and murdered, at least one OAP raped and murdered (or at least the trial is running now), there have been yet more stories of Christian Vicars raping/buggering altar boys, an entire of list of celebrities facing historical allegations of rape, a number of murders, father and son rape partnership, a women in Devon charged with murdering a 2 year old!! There are countless other crimes I have not mentioned no doubt, yet we are shown a clip of a group of thugs threatening passersby as an example of the UK going to the dogs....and not any thugs and louts but "Muslim" ones!!!
If a crime is committed by a Muslim does that make it more of a crime??
Are we going to have an article every time a "Muslim" commits a crime??

Also who is "preaching hate"? I'd say the EDL definitely do but they're a legal body protected by the law. Google their marches on Youtube and you see who's preaching hate. Some of the posters/articles on here are absolutely hateful. If there are Muslims preaching hate or "plotting to blow us up" and you KNOW that take your evidence to the Police and I'm sure they will prosecute them otherwise maybe your information is not from very well informed sources and probably is not accurate.

As I've said before these articles blaming 'the other' or 'look how shit other people are' usually take this same path, if you want to learn about Islam DON'T listen to some of the ill-informed Islamophobes on here or elsewhere - there are plenty of websites, chat rooms, places to turn. If you know a practising Muslim ask him/her. I'm always talking about Islam to my work colleagues or friends correcting their views on my religion or at least putting it in context.

As we've seen before on this MB any tom, dick or harry can put up a misleading rabble-rousing article or quote designed to cause hatred/fear of Muslims/Islam and have unthinking people bleat their approval.

It's very easy to demonise Muslims/Islam (like the Nazis did with the Jews/Judaism did before the Holocaust) and its easy to hate or to get society via media conditioning and lazy minds to hate but to understand takes a little effort.

Furthermore many people (from all backgrounds) in the UK have converted to or at least understood Islam once they've actually studied it a while and many of them also had preconceived negative views of Islam and given the virtual war declared on Islam/Muslims in the media and press it's easy to understand why that is.

Finally to the Islamophobes whether you like it or not Islam is here to stay, you can't eradicate it from peoples hearts even by 'ethnic cleansing' (like the Serbs tried in the Balkans a few years back), no one can 'suss' it out or "prove" it wrong and it will continue to grow and so learn to deal with it or choke on your hatred.

Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches...
all daily occurrences in Countries with Sharia law. so dont try pinning us down as some kind
of 'loose' society. At least a woman can go to the police in Britain without getting accused of
adultery and getting punished more than her attackers.

anyway the only point here is.

If Islam does not think it is so superior to us 'low-life' infidels.....

Why are Christians not allowed to visit Mecca?

Why are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists not allowed to visit Mecca?

Do muslims believe they are equal, or above Christians in the eyes of God?

See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which
silly book they read!!

The problem is these countries do NOT have Sharia law!! The may say they do, like some fanatics who then go and kill their fellow Muslims or some ignorant villagers who set up extra-judicial "courts" even though they have no relevant Islamic qualifications or credentials. There are problems in the Muslim world and they need solving and they will be solved but it takes time and besides I live in Britain and the article I responded to was about Britain.

"Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches..." these are all condemned by Islam and the punishment is very severe for them.
The point is the article started off about Muslims in UK, and I wrote about crime in the UK to emphasise the point that the clip shown was a relatively minor case of thuggish behaviour but it was used unfairly to justify hatred/fear of Islam/Muslims.


In the Muslim world there are criminal and vagabonds (like everywhere else) who do all kind of things, what has that got to do with Islam?
As for the woman point, you work in Saudia, I challenge you to go to any Saudia women and say something insulting to her in front of her male relatives....you know and I know that you would end up very seriously injured, so amongst most Muslim men they defend their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers - of course some are scum bags like everywhere else.

"so dont try pinning us down as some kind of 'loose' society", what are you talking about?? who done that?? Maybe you have an inferiority complex, that's your problem and I don't care but don't put word in my mouth. Read what I say carefully and don't twist things to further your arguments. If you consider yourself a 'lowlife' then that's up to you don't drag all these other groups into it, like you are the champion of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists.

I've been told by Christians (Jehovah Witnesses usually) that since I'm a disbeliever (an infidel) I won't go to heaven...do I care..no, because i don't believe in that I believe in Islam, that's the whole point of religions...everyone believes they're right innit? "Chosen people" anyone? Why is it only Muslims are hammered for believing they're right and others are wrong in their beliefs. We've all got belief's which we feel are right, as long as we're not rabble rousing or physically attacking people for them what's wrong with that as long as we live within the law of the land.

As for the Holy Mosque/area in Mecca, yes non-believers are not allowed in there but there are non-Muslims living all over the Islamic world, there are Arab Christians and other miniorities who have lived alongside Muslims for centuries in tolerance before Western Europe became Christian. The Jews used to flee European persecution to Muslim lands. Why do you want to visit the Holy Mosque in Mecca anyway or is this just some kind of convenient stick to use? Can I go to the Vatican? I don't know but I don't want to because it means nothing to me as a dis-believer, just like Mecca means nothing to you as dis-believer. You got plenty of mosques here you can visit, I can take you and anyone else on a guided tour of our mosque here in Butetown (the Docks Mosque) when I have time.


"See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which silly book they read!!"....judging from your articles on Muslims that's laughable, you use every possible occasion to have a go. If an INDIVIDUAL or GROUP of individuals do or say something bad attack them individually, don't go attacking Muslims/Islams with your irrational arguments (e.g. from above "their CORE BELIEF is STILL to make the World a Muslim World"...lol..is that ignorance or are you yet again rabble-rousing?).

Previously you have said you work/live in Saudia Arabia...are you under attack for your beliefs?, do you fear from your life?
Are the individual Muslims so horrible and bad to you?? And even if you have had bad experiences can you justifiably throw that onto the collective responsibility of 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide across tens of countries and a religion that has contributed so much to the world in terms of Civilisation, Science, Mathematics, Astronomy, Architecture etc etc??

The Vatican? Of course your allowed in if your Muslim. Why wouldnt you be? We do
not look upon Muslims as unclean. Now tell us all again why other religions are not allowed to
enter Mecca (or even the surrounding highways!!)

Apart from that? Big speech!!

YOU entered this thread with a tirade against Western Morals and the High Crime rates
in the UK. You neglected the most important part about the Sharia/rape etc.

A woman CANNOT report a rape in a Sharia led country unless she has witnesses. Because
her word is not WORTH that of a man. Or she will end up being stoned/beaten executed
for adultery herself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLN11ym5 ... criminals/

Beautiful Islam? You can keep it lad

Wow you got a lot of time on your hands.
First of all, why lie? I never once mentioned "western" or "morals", can you not read? Either you're stupid or your still trying to sell us your EDL campaign of demonisation of Muslims/Islam. Now read again carefully this time.. "The point is the article started off about Muslims in UK, and I wrote about crime in the UK to emphasise the point that the clip shown was a relatively minor case of thuggish behaviour but it was used unfairly to justify hatred/fear of Islam/Muslims."

If you want to turn them that into a "West" versus Islam football match that's your problem.

Secondly, all accusations in Islam have to be backed up by proof since the punishments are very strict - that's not just by women but by men also - what is to stop any malicious allegation of wrong doing. I know there are misapplications of Islam in certain "Muslim" countries but these are usually extra-judicial courts set up in remote areas with poor literacy rates and of course this is wrong.

To be honest these are simple points to clarify and discuss but it needs honest research and discussion with people, not using EDL bullshit links to "win" an argument on a football message board which has maybe only one Muslim on it!!

Thirdly that link of yours, shame on you - I've seen that and worse before on the far right websites and what a crock of shit it is, so much bullshit, lies and half-truths.....a case of the the blind leading the blind and stupid!!

Finally, have you no shame? Working in Saudi Arabia yet you clearly have so much hatred for Islam and Muslims, I bet your Saudi work mates and the Saudi authorities are fed up of you, or do you not tell them your true feelings about them and their religion....ta ta for now, I've no doubt you'll vent your spleen on this board next time any crime is committed by a Muslim.
Anyway for the rest of you, if you really want to learn about Islam there are so many ways nowadays, just needs a bit of effort.

Here we go again, same argument again ad infinitum. In the last few months here in the UK where we live there have been kids raped and murdered, at least one OAP raped and murdered (or at least the trial is running now), there have been yet more stories of Christian Vicars raping/buggering altar boys, an entire of list of celebrities facing historical allegations of rape, a number of murders, father and son rape partnership, a women in Devon charged with murdering a 2 year old!! There are countless other crimes I have not mentioned no doubt, yet we are shown a clip of a group of thugs threatening passersby as an example of the UK going to the dogs....and not any thugs and louts but "Muslim" ones!!!
If a crime is committed by a Muslim does that make it more of a crime??
Are we going to have an article every time a "Muslim" commits a crime??

Also who is "preaching hate"? I'd say the EDL definitely do but they're a legal body protected by the law. Google their marches on Youtube and you see who's preaching hate. Some of the posters/articles on here are absolutely hateful. If there are Muslims preaching hate or "plotting to blow us up" and you KNOW that take your evidence to the Police and I'm sure they will prosecute them otherwise maybe your information is not from very well informed sources and probably is not accurate.

As I've said before these articles blaming 'the other' or 'look how shit other people are' usually take this same path, if you want to learn about Islam DON'T listen to some of the ill-informed Islamophobes on here or elsewhere - there are plenty of websites, chat rooms, places to turn. If you know a practising Muslim ask him/her. I'm always talking about Islam to my work colleagues or friends correcting their views on my religion or at least putting it in context.

As we've seen before on this MB any tom, dick or harry can put up a misleading rabble-rousing article or quote designed to cause hatred/fear of Muslims/Islam and have unthinking people bleat their approval.

It's very easy to demonise Muslims/Islam (like the Nazis did with the Jews/Judaism did before the Holocaust) and its easy to hate or to get society via media conditioning and lazy minds to hate but to understand takes a little effort.

Furthermore many people (from all backgrounds) in the UK have converted to or at least understood Islam once they've actually studied it a while and many of them also had preconceived negative views of Islam and given the virtual war declared on Islam/Muslims in the media and press it's easy to understand why that is.

Finally to the Islamophobes whether you like it or not Islam is here to stay, you can't eradicate it from peoples hearts even by 'ethnic cleansing' (like the Serbs tried in the Balkans a few years back), no one can 'suss' it out or "prove" it wrong and it will continue to grow and so learn to deal with it or choke on your hatred.

Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches...
all daily occurrences in Countries with Sharia law. so dont try pinning us down as some kind
of 'loose' society. At least a woman can go to the police in Britain without getting accused of
adultery and getting punished more than her attackers.

anyway the only point here is.

If Islam does not think it is so superior to us 'low-life' infidels.....

Why are Christians not allowed to visit Mecca?

Why are Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists not allowed to visit Mecca?

Do muslims believe they are equal, or above Christians in the eyes of God?

See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which
silly book they read!!

The problem is these countries do NOT have Sharia law!! The may say they do, like some fanatics who then go and kill their fellow Muslims or some ignorant villagers who set up extra-judicial "courts" even though they have no relevant Islamic qualifications or credentials. There are problems in the Muslim world and they need solving and they will be solved but it takes time and besides I live in Britain and the article I responded to was about Britain.

"Rape, murder, buggery, acid attacks, cutting off female genitalia... burning down churches..." these are all condemned by Islam and the punishment is very severe for them.
The point is the article started off about Muslims in UK, and I wrote about crime in the UK to emphasise the point that the clip shown was a relatively minor case of thuggish behaviour but it was used unfairly to justify hatred/fear of Islam/Muslims.


In the Muslim world there are criminal and vagabonds (like everywhere else) who do all kind of things, what has that got to do with Islam?
As for the woman point, you work in Saudia, I challenge you to go to any Saudia women and say something insulting to her in front of her male relatives....you know and I know that you would end up very seriously injured, so amongst most Muslim men they defend their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers - of course some are scum bags like everywhere else.

"so dont try pinning us down as some kind of 'loose' society", what are you talking about?? who done that?? Maybe you have an inferiority complex, that's your problem and I don't care but don't put word in my mouth. Read what I say carefully and don't twist things to further your arguments. If you consider yourself a 'lowlife' then that's up to you don't drag all these other groups into it, like you are the champion of Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists.

I've been told by Christians (Jehovah Witnesses usually) that since I'm a disbeliever (an infidel) I won't go to heaven...do I care..no, because i don't believe in that I believe in Islam, that's the whole point of religions...everyone believes they're right innit? "Chosen people" anyone? Why is it only Muslims are hammered for believing they're right and others are wrong in their beliefs. We've all got belief's which we feel are right, as long as we're not rabble rousing or physically attacking people for them what's wrong with that as long as we live within the law of the land.

As for the Holy Mosque/area in Mecca, yes non-believers are not allowed in there but there are non-Muslims living all over the Islamic world, there are Arab Christians and other miniorities who have lived alongside Muslims for centuries in tolerance before Western Europe became Christian. The Jews used to flee European persecution to Muslim lands. Why do you want to visit the Holy Mosque in Mecca anyway or is this just some kind of convenient stick to use? Can I go to the Vatican? I don't know but I don't want to because it means nothing to me as a dis-believer, just like Mecca means nothing to you as dis-believer. You got plenty of mosques here you can visit, I can take you and anyone else on a guided tour of our mosque here in Butetown (the Docks Mosque) when I have time.


"See me, I think all men are equal and are defined by their actions, not by which silly book they read!!"....judging from your articles on Muslims that's laughable, you use every possible occasion to have a go. If an INDIVIDUAL or GROUP of individuals do or say something bad attack them individually, don't go attacking Muslims/Islams with your irrational arguments (e.g. from above "their CORE BELIEF is STILL to make the World a Muslim World"...lol..is that ignorance or are you yet again rabble-rousing?).

Previously you have said you work/live in Saudia Arabia...are you under attack for your beliefs?, do you fear from your life?
Are the individual Muslims so horrible and bad to you?? And even if you have had bad experiences can you justifiably throw that onto the collective responsibility of 1.5 Billion Muslims worldwide across tens of countries and a religion that has contributed so much to the world in terms of Civilisation, Science, Mathematics, Astronomy, Architecture etc etc??

The Vatican? Of course your allowed in if your Muslim. Why wouldnt you be? We do
not look upon Muslims as unclean. Now tell us all again why other religions are not allowed to
enter Mecca (or even the surrounding highways!!)

Apart from that? Big speech!!

YOU entered this thread with a tirade against Western Morals and the High Crime rates
in the UK. You neglected the most important part about the Sharia/rape etc.

A woman CANNOT report a rape in a Sharia led country unless she has witnesses. Because
her word is not WORTH that of a man. Or she will end up being stoned/beaten executed
for adultery herself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLN11ym5 ... criminals/

Beautiful Islam? You can keep it lad

Wow you got a lot of time on your hands.
First of all, why lie? I never once mentioned "western" or "morals", can you not read? Either you're stupid or your still trying to sell us your EDL campaign of demonisation of Muslims/Islam. Now read again carefully this time.. "The point is the article started off about Muslims in UK, and I wrote about crime in the UK to emphasise the point that the clip shown was a relatively minor case of thuggish behaviour but it was used unfairly to justify hatred/fear of Islam/Muslims."

If you want to turn them that into a "West" versus Islam football match that's your problem.

Secondly, all accusations in Islam have to be backed up by proof since the punishments are very strict - that's not just by women but by men also - what is to stop any malicious allegation of wrong doing. I know there are misapplications of Islam in certain "Muslim" countries but these are usually extra-judicial courts set up in remote areas with poor literacy rates and of course this is wrong.

To be honest these are simple points to clarify and discuss but it needs honest research and discussion with people, not using EDL bullshit links to "win" an argument on a football message board which has maybe only one Muslim on it!!

Thirdly that link of yours, shame on you - I've seen that and worse before on the far right websites and what a crock of shit it is, so much bullshit, lies and half-truths.....a case of the the blind leading the blind and stupid!!

Finally, have you no shame? Working in Saudi Arabia yet you clearly have so much hatred for Islam and Muslims, I bet your Saudi work mates and the Saudi authorities are fed up of you, or do you not tell them your true feelings about them and their religion....ta ta for now, I've no doubt you'll vent your spleen on this board next time any crime is committed by a Muslim.
Anyway for the rest of you, if you really want to learn about Islam there are so many ways nowadays, just needs a bit of effort.

LIE? Me? You started with a huge tirade about the 'lawlessness' 'child abusers' etc etc etc in our
society, That wasnt the subject matter. It must loom large in your life. Your opinion of us is
not that great.

But anyway. As usual, you are glossing over reality. IS a womans word worth as much as a mans
in the Islamic world? yes or no?

http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/732

For anyone reading the above scandalous "helpline'....

In Islam, a woman must have FOUR male witnesses (of good standing)to her rape before she can rightfully
accuse a male of the crime. Now i dont know about anyone else, but If i WAS a rapist Id be damned sure I
wasnt committing rape in front of four upstanding members of society. The article goes on to say how many
rapes are committed in the USA every day etc. Shocking statistics. But there is now way of knowing just how
many rapes are committed in these backward Sharia Countries. If you were a woman, would YOU accuse a
man of rape, knowing full well you are likely to end up stoned or beaten to within an inch of your life.

Yasser. Your religion is a backward doctrine.

Tell me again. Why does the religion of peace and conciliation refuse entry to Mecca for all but
Muslims?

LIE? Me? You started with a huge tirade about the 'lawlessness' 'child abusers' etc etc etc in our
society, That wasnt the subject matter. It must loom large in your life. Your opinion of us is
not that great.

But anyway. As usual, you are glossing over reality. IS a womans word worth as much as a mans
in the Islamic world? yes or no?

http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/732

For anyone reading the above scandalous "helpline'....

In Islam, a woman must have FOUR male witnesses (of good standing)to her rape before she can rightfully
accuse a male of the crime. Now i dont know about anyone else, but If i WAS a rapist Id be damned sure I
wasnt committing rape in front of four upstanding members of society. The article goes on to say how many
rapes are committed in the USA every day etc. Shocking statistics. But there is now way of knowing just how
many rapes are committed in these backward Sharia Countries. If you were a woman, would YOU accuse a
man of rape, knowing full well you are likely to end up stoned or beaten to within an inch of your life.

Yasser. Your religion is a backward doctrine.

Tell me again. Why does the religion of peace and conciliation refuse entry to Mecca for all but
Muslims?[/quote]

LOL - "Your opinion of us is not that great." Us? Us? Who's us??? Can you not stand alone man?? Are you trying to alienate me from the rest of the message board, by turning this into an us versus them thing? You a re truly stupid - twice I've explained, twice you've NOT understood. Let each man answer for himself, do not claim to speak on behalf of "us". Do you even know what "tirade" means???

You have an agenda, I can see it and I'm sure many others can as well. Of all the points raised you answer none and just keep coming back with new issues.

Now very, very slowly for you.....in Islam the punishment for many crimes is very, very harsh...you still with me?....so the burden of proof (a very big word, i know, but keep concentrating)...is on the accuser. So Islam believes in prevention rather than cure, and so has very strict rules about mixing between the sexes (because generally men, especially young men, fancy women and would like to shag as many as possible if they had the chance).
The woman ALSO has to take SOME responsibility for her own safety, if she decides to go to Mike Tyson's bedroom late at night then she should realise he's only probably interested in one thing, if it's a serious thing she should take her brother or whoever with her and meet in a public space and and then they can court and eventually marry and love one another and live happily ever after....you dig?
Now if a man accuses someone of stealing, should we just chop of the hand of the alleged thief????? No we need witnesses!!! If a women accuses a man of being a thief she ALSO needs witnesses.......if a man accuses another man of raping him....guess what? Yes that right we need witnesses!!!!!

So ANYONE - man or woman - accusing anyone of anything needs witness - you chose to highlight the highly emotive issue of female rape because you have an agenda, innit? Now do you UNDERSTAND?


There are so many things that need explaining but its hard on a MB and I don't have time to draw pictures for you but for the rest of you I hope you do not believe a WORD that this man utters on Islam, he has twisted, lied and given half truths in so many previous posts on Islam - so beware of him.

I'm now going do something more useful with my time and have a massive dump......by the way what about the Saudis, do you tell them your true feeling? I guess your EDL friends will be disappointed in you earning money over there, eh?

LOL - "Your opinion of us is not that great." Us? Us? Who's us??? Can you not stand alone man?? Are you trying to alienate me from the rest of the message board, by turning this into an us versus them thing? You a re truly stupid - twice I've explained, twice you've NOT understood. Let each man answer for himself, do not claim to speak on behalf of "us". Do you even know what "tirade" means???

You have an agenda, I can see it and I'm sure many others can as well. Of all the points raised you answer none and just keep coming back with new issues.

Now very, very slowly for you.....in Islam the punishment for many crimes is very, very harsh...you still with me?....so the burden of proof (a very big word, i know, but keep concentrating)...is on the accuser. So Islam believes in prevention rather than cure, and so has very strict rules about mixing between the sexes (because generally men, especially young men, fancy women and would like to shag as many as possible if they had the chance).
The woman ALSO has to take SOME responsibility for her own safety, if she decides to go to Mike Tyson's bedroom late at night then she should realise he's only probably interested in one thing, if it's a serious thing she should take her brother or whoever with her and meet in a public space and and then they can court and eventually marry and love one another and live happily ever after....you dig?
Now if a man accuses someone of stealing, should we just chop of the hand of the alleged thief????? No we need witnesses!!! If a women accuses a man of being a thief she ALSO needs witnesses.......if a man accuses another man of raping him....guess what? Yes that right we need witnesses!!!!!

So ANYONE - man or woman - accusing anyone of anything needs witness - you chose to highlight the highly emotive issue of female rape because you have an agenda, innit? Now do you UNDERSTAND?


There are so many things that need explaining but its hard on a MB and I don't have time to draw pictures for you but for the rest of you I hope you do not believe a WORD that this man utters on Islam, he has twisted, lied and given half truths in so many previous posts on Islam - so beware of him.

I'm now going do something more useful with my time and have a massive dump......by the way what about the Saudis, do you tell them your true feeling? I guess your EDL friends will be disappointed in you earning money over there, eh?

ALL religion is there to corrupt and control you. See past the bullshit people.