" Missing the point - it isn't just a colour. "

Just want a little rant.
So many people who are not opposed to all this are missing the point.
They say "its just a colour, so what" or "we have changed our badge before, why not again".
But that is not the point!

They are ignoring the fact that someone who hasn't long come into the club is steamrolling over 100+ years of history and tradition.
The fact that we would essentially be whoring ourselves out - anything in exchange for money.
And finally, what worries me the most, the fact that we don't know where it will end. If we are prepared to lose our history and tradition for money, why not our name, or our location? Do we really want even that slightest chance that we would become essentially a malaysian franchise even if we get to the premiership or even champions league?

Well said.

StT.

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

This will only be the start...I'm an Fc united supporter who turned his back on giving my money to the glazers at mufc.these foreign owners don't care about you one bit, it's money they see..history and loyal supporters are irrelivent .will always be united but now fully behind Fc for what it mean.
If it goes ahead do what we did and start a supporters ownership club

Just stick to your guns and make your views know....true football fans know what your club means and will fully understand no matter rivalries

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

that makes sense

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

that makes sense

Only to a plastic.

Just want a little rant.
So many people who are not opposed to all this are missing the point.
They say "its just a colour, so what" or "we have changed our badge before, why not again".
But that is not the point!

They are ignoring the fact that someone who hasn't long come into the club is steamrolling over 100+ years of history and tradition.
The fact that we would essentially be whoring ourselves out - anything in exchange for money.
And finally, what worries me the most, the fact that we don't know where it will end. If we are prepared to lose our history and tradition for money, why not our name, or our location? Do we really want even that slightest chance that we would become essentially a malaysian franchise even if we get to the premiership or even champions league?

I would counter by saying your missing a HUGE point, Cardiff City FC is a business and as such needs to pay its way in a very cut throat industry. I don't see changing our colours as 'whoring ourselves out' rather I see it as making the most of an extraordinary oppotunity which could put us fianancially miles ahead of every other football club.

As for history, if we don't take this oppotunity then we go bust and we will have as much history as all other football clubs that have dodged their financial liabilities and reinvented themselves as a new companies e.g. Swansea City 1993 (or whatever).

Personally I think a club loses far more 'identity' when they take the spinless administration/reinvention route than a club which is willing to pay its way and not rip anyone off by utilising every possible oppotunity.

Of course this might not be enough to satisfy you. If you wish to boycott shirts, season tickets etc then go ahead, but in the meantime the less bloddy minded amongst us will embrace this golden gift and look forward to brilliant future.

This will only be the start...I'm an Fc united supporter who turned his back on giving my money to the glazers at mufc.these foreign owners don't care about you one bit, it's money they see..history and loyal supporters are irrelivent .will always be united but now fully behind Fc for what it mean.
If it goes ahead do what we did and start a supporters ownership club

Just stick to your guns and make your views know....true football fans know what your club means and will fully understand no matter rivalries

I actually have great admiration for the United fans who broke away and formed FC United. However, there is a huge difference between Manchester United and Cardiff City's owners.

The Glaziers took a successful debt free club and saddled it with £500m+ worth of debt whilst also taking ten's of millions of pounds out of the club for personal use.

Cardiff City will have £30m+ worth of debt wiped by this takeover, plus a potential further investment of £50m+

By cracking the Malaysian and Chinese markets the sky's the limit for this club financially. So I appreciate your advice but the time for any break away is not now.

This will only be the start...I'm an Fc united supporter who turned his back on giving my money to the glazers at mufc.these foreign owners don't care about you one bit, it's money they see..history and loyal supporters are irrelivent .will always be united but now fully behind Fc for what it mean.
If it goes ahead do what we did and start a supporters ownership club

Just stick to your guns and make your views know....true football fans know what your club means and will fully understand no matter rivalries

I actually have great admiration for the United fans who broke away and formed FC United. However, there is a huge difference between Manchester United and Cardiff City's owners.

The Glaziers took a successful debt free club and saddled it with £500m+ worth of debt whilst also taking ten's of millions of pounds out of the club for personal use.

Cardiff City will have £30m+ worth of debt wiped by this takeover, plus a potential further investment of £50m+

By cracking the Malaysian and Chinese markets the sky's the limit for this club financially. So I appreciate your advice but the time for any break away is not now.

Not so blue now then Tony?

This will only be the start...I'm an Fc united supporter who turned his back on giving my money to the glazers at mufc.these foreign owners don't care about you one bit, it's money they see..history and loyal supporters are irrelivent .will always be united but now fully behind Fc for what it mean.
If it goes ahead do what we did and start a supporters ownership club

Just stick to your guns and make your views know....true football fans know what your club means and will fully understand no matter rivalries

I actually have great admiration for the United fans who broke away and formed FC United. However, there is a huge difference between Manchester United and Cardiff City's owners.

The Glaziers took a successful debt free club and saddled it with £500m+ worth of debt whilst also taking ten's of millions of pounds out of the club for personal use.

Cardiff City will have £30m+ worth of debt wiped by this takeover, plus a potential further investment of £50m+

By cracking the Malaysian and Chinese markets the sky's the limit for this club financially. So I appreciate your advice but the time for any break away is not now.

Not so blue now then Tony?

Good point

You turning up on Saturday Tony ?

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

Fine. So we change our colour. We change our badge. We change our nickname.
What then?
Why not change the club name when we're at it. Since nothing else about the history of the club matters, there is no reason not to.
The same for the location. Why not move elsewhere? After all, it doesn't matter WHERE the club is, just how successful it is and how much money can be brought in.

See what I am trying to say?
In terms of the identity of the club, it is ALL important. You change several parts of it at once by such extremes, then it becomes easier to change the rest.

I would counter by saying your missing a HUGE point, Cardiff City FC is a business and as such needs to pay its way in a very cut throat industry. I don't see changing our colours as 'whoring ourselves out' rather I see it as making the most of an extraordinary oppotunity which could put us fianancially miles ahead of every other football club.

As for history, if we don't take this oppotunity then we go bust and we will have as much history as all other football clubs that have dodged their financial liabilities and reinvented themselves as a new companies e.g. Swansea City 1993 (or whatever).

Personally I think a club loses far more 'identity' when they take the spinless administration/reinvention route than a club which is willing to pay its way and not rip anyone off by utilising every possible oppotunity.

Of course this might not be enough to satisfy you. If you wish to boycott shirts, season tickets etc then go ahead, but in the meantime the less bloddy minded amongst us will embrace this golden gift and look forward to brilliant future.

As I have said above.
Also, again you miss something. Yes football clubs are businesses. But they are not JUST businesses.
They are things that we support. That we stick by through thick and thin.
They are not the same as other businesses, and so cannot be changed and rebranded like different businesses.

Look what has happened with other clubs. Some have been totally rebranded with all evidence of their former selves erased. With their colours and emblems changed to promote the people who own the club. Others have been moved miles away from where they should be based. And you know why those were allowed to happen? Because people like you thinking a football club is like any other business. Do you want to be supporting Malaysia Welsh Dragons FC? Cos I certainly don't.

You turning up on Saturday Tony ?

The meeting seems to be for those who want to stand against the change so I'm not sure I would be welcome, although i would like to go.

Like everyone else I would prefer that we carried on playing in Blue along with the current badge.

However, I am open minded enough to understand that times change and those who survive are the ones who adapt the best. I believe we should let Tan have his colour change and Dragon badge in exchange for the investment that will turn us into a top 6 Premiership and European club. He can then do his marketing thing in Malaysia and China whilst we continue to benefit.

Finally there is one point that all of us are missing, club owners don't stay forever and one day he will be gone and we then go back to playing Blue.

Simples

However, I am open minded enough to understand that times change and those who survive are the ones who adapt the best. I believe we should let Tan have his colour change and Dragon badge in exchange for the investment that will turn us into a top 6 Premiership and European club. He can then do his marketing thing in Malaysia and China whilst we continue to benefit.

Firstly, there is no guarantee that we will get that investment.
Secondly, as I said, that pretty much means we are saying nothing is important to us apart from success and money. I don't think that is the case, and think some things are more important.
Which leads onto my last point - where next? Would you be so happy to go along with a future plan to change the name of the club if that brought in more money / success?

Finally there is one point that all of us are missing, club owners don't stay forever and one day he will be gone and we then go back to playing Blue.

You don't actually believe that do you?
Once it happens, it is done. That is it. There is no going back. Especially if we allow them to turn the stadium red too. Unless we turn it around beforehand, or quite soon after it happens.

Gotta laugh at some of you... So I'm a plastic because I don't want to see my club go under.

That's what will happen if Tan walks......

Don't see many billionaires prepared to step in and save the day ......


Honestly guys I'd like it to be perfect and rosey for us but it fkn ain't, lifes a c**t and kicks you when your down, our situation could be a hell of a lot worse than what it currently is.

But enjoy your protests and campaigns to get rid of the man who is paying all our bills and keeping us operating on a daily basis.

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

Fine. So we change our colour. We change our badge. We change our nickname.
What then?
Why not change the club name when we're at it. Since nothing else about the history of the club matters, there is no reason not to.
The same for the location. Why not move elsewhere? After all, it doesn't matter WHERE the club is, just how successful it is and how much money can be brought in.

See what I am trying to say?
In terms of the identity of the club, it is ALL important. You change several parts of it at once by such extremes, then it becomes easier to change the rest.

I would counter by saying your missing a HUGE point, Cardiff City FC is a business and as such needs to pay its way in a very cut throat industry. I don't see changing our colours as 'whoring ourselves out' rather I see it as making the most of an extraordinary oppotunity which could put us fianancially miles ahead of every other football club.

As for history, if we don't take this oppotunity then we go bust and we will have as much history as all other football clubs that have dodged their financial liabilities and reinvented themselves as a new companies e.g. Swansea City 1993 (or whatever).

Personally I think a club loses far more 'identity' when they take the spinless administration/reinvention route than a club which is willing to pay its way and not rip anyone off by utilising every possible oppotunity.

Of course this might not be enough to satisfy you. If you wish to boycott shirts, season tickets etc then go ahead, but in the meantime the less bloddy minded amongst us will embrace this golden gift and look forward to brilliant future.

As I have said above.
Also, again you miss something. Yes football clubs are businesses. But they are not JUST businesses.
They are things that we support. That we stick by through thick and thin.
They are not the same as other businesses, and so cannot be changed and rebranded like different businesses.

Look what has happened with other clubs. Some have been totally rebranded with all evidence of their former selves erased. With their colours and emblems changed to promote the people who own the club. Others have been moved miles away from where they should be based. And you know why those were allowed to happen? Because people like you thinking a football club is like any other business. Do you want to be supporting Malaysia Welsh Dragons FC? Cos I certainly don't.

TBH that is one of those replies which are done for replies sake, rather than actually addressing anything.

You might think that a Football Club is a different business to every other business but I can assure you the winding up courts don't. I'm not sure which clubs you are on about in relation to rebranding but last time I looked MK Dons were doing alright as were AFC Wimbledon.

However, that's not what is on the table the proposals are changing our home colour and the badge, not the name.

In exchange we get our debts wiped plus funded (through marketing) further substancial investment. At a time when the financial fair play rules come into force this oppotunity will have us flying out of the blocks and put us years ahead of other clubs.

What we as fans need to do is drop the bloody mindedness and see this for the magificent oppotunity it is.

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

Fine. So we change our colour. We change our badge. We change our nickname.
What then?
Why not change the club name when we're at it. Since nothing else about the history of the club matters, there is no reason not to.
The same for the location. Why not move elsewhere? After all, it doesn't matter WHERE the club is, just how successful it is and how much money can be brought in.

See what I am trying to say?
In terms of the identity of the club, it is ALL important. You change several parts of it at once by such extremes, then it becomes easier to change the rest.

I would counter by saying your missing a HUGE point, Cardiff City FC is a business and as such needs to pay its way in a very cut throat industry. I don't see changing our colours as 'whoring ourselves out' rather I see it as making the most of an extraordinary oppotunity which could put us fianancially miles ahead of every other football club.

As for history, if we don't take this oppotunity then we go bust and we will have as much history as all other football clubs that have dodged their financial liabilities and reinvented themselves as a new companies e.g. Swansea City 1993 (or whatever).

Personally I think a club loses far more 'identity' when they take the spinless administration/reinvention route than a club which is willing to pay its way and not rip anyone off by utilising every possible oppotunity.

Of course this might not be enough to satisfy you. If you wish to boycott shirts, season tickets etc then go ahead, but in the meantime the less bloddy minded amongst us will embrace this golden gift and look forward to brilliant future.

As I have said above.
Also, again you miss something. Yes football clubs are businesses. But they are not JUST businesses.
They are things that we support. That we stick by through thick and thin.
They are not the same as other businesses, and so cannot be changed and rebranded like different businesses.

Look what has happened with other clubs. Some have been totally rebranded with all evidence of their former selves erased. With their colours and emblems changed to promote the people who own the club. Others have been moved miles away from where they should be based. And you know why those were allowed to happen? Because people like you thinking a football club is like any other business. Do you want to be supporting Malaysia Welsh Dragons FC? Cos I certainly don't.

TBH that is one of those replies which are done for replies sake, rather than actually addressing anything.

You might think that a Football Club is a different business to every other business but I can assure you the winding up courts don't. I'm not sure which clubs you are on about in relation to rebranding but last time I looked MK Dons were doing alright as were AFC Wimbledon.

However, that's not what is on the table the proposals are changing our home colour and the badge, not the name.

In exchange we get our debts wiped plus funded (through marketing) further substancial investment. At a time when the financial fair play rules come into force this oppotunity will have us flying out of the blocks and put us years ahead of other clubs.

What we as fans need to do is drop the bloody mindedness and see this for the magificent oppotunity it is.

I AGREE ENTIRELY

However, I am open minded enough to understand that times change and those who survive are the ones who adapt the best. I believe we should let Tan have his colour change and Dragon badge in exchange for the investment that will turn us into a top 6 Premiership and European club. He can then do his marketing thing in Malaysia and China whilst we continue to benefit.

Firstly, there is no guarantee that we will get that investment.
Secondly, as I said, that pretty much means we are saying nothing is important to us apart from success and money. I don't think that is the case, and think some things are more important.
Which leads onto my last point - where next? Would you be so happy to go along with a future plan to change the name of the club if that brought in more money / success?

Finally there is one point that all of us are missing, club owners don't stay forever and one day he will be gone and we then go back to playing Blue.

You don't actually believe that do you?
Once it happens, it is done. That is it. There is no going back. Especially if we allow them to turn the stadium red too. Unless we turn it around beforehand, or quite soon after it happens.

Yes I want to see Cardiff City successful I fail to see what can be more important than that? If you think I'm wrong then you must have some very warped logic.

I would say that the investment is nailed on as Tan firstly has to buy the club (wiping the debt/buying shares) and then he wants a successful club to market in Malaysia/China. Saying that the investment might not come is a very lazy argument.

And finally yes I do believe one day Tan will leave the club, he is over 60 now so give it 15 years and he will be pretty much history.

So again I ask, where do you draw the line?
If changing the colours, the badge and the nickname is fine by you in order for us to be successful, what about a name change? If renaming ourselves Malaysia Welsh Dragons FC meant we got even more investment, and so an even greater chance of success, would you be fine with that too? What about a move to a different town or city? Your mantra seems to be whatever increases the chances of success is a good thing. But surely there must be a line somewhere?

Sorry for the double post.

Of course I want Cardiff City FC to be successful. But on our own terms. As Cardiff City FC, The Bluebirds. And as I have tried to say, some things are more important. Us remaining as Cardiff City FC, us continuing to play in Cardiff and in my opinion us continuing to play in blue and be known as the bluebirds, with our badge reflecting that. Those things are more important to me than success, and if we need to throw those things away in order to get success, then what is the point?

In terms of the courts - I did not say they see football clubs differently. However, the football clubs "customers", us, do. We don't see Cardiff City FC like we see Coca Cola, or Asda, or KFC, or whatever. It is OUR club (not literally obviously, but football fans have an attachment to their club unlike any other business-customer relationship).

And I didn't ask if you thought if VT would at some point leave. Of course he will. What I mean is that once he has left, we will continue to play in red. Him leaving on some random date in the future would not suddenly mean we play in blue and we get our badge and nickname back.

So again I ask, where do you draw the line?
If changing the colours, the badge and the nickname is fine by you in order for us to be successful, what about a name change? If renaming ourselves Malaysia Welsh Dragons FC meant we got even more investment, and so an even greater chance of success, would you be fine with that too? What about a move to a different town or city? Your mantra seems to be whatever increases the chances of success is a good thing. But surely there must be a line somewhere?

The name would be a red line I have no problem with saying that. The Malaysians are not daft they realise that if they are going to market a English come Welsh team in the Far East they need the club to have an English name. Calling us Malaysia Welsh Dragons would be pointless as it would limit the marketing to Malaysia alone, when the whole of the Far East is there for the taking with our current name.

My attitude is based on what is on the table now. Changing the colour of the home kit to red and using a Dragon as the badge.

Making up or assuming anything else is not helpful as that is not the deal which is on offer.

Sorry for the double post.

Of course I want Cardiff City FC to be successful. But on our own terms. As Cardiff City FC, The Bluebirds. And as I have tried to say, some things are more important. Us remaining as Cardiff City FC, us continuing to play in Cardiff and in my opinion us continuing to play in blue and be known as the bluebirds, with our badge reflecting that. Those things are more important to me than success, and if we need to throw those things away in order to get success, then what is the point?

In terms of the courts - I did not say they see football clubs differently. However, the football clubs "customers", us, do. We don't see Cardiff City FC like we see Coca Cola, or Asda, or KFC, or whatever. It is OUR club (not literally obviously, but football fans have an attachment to their club unlike any other business-customer relationship).

And I didn't ask if you thought if VT would at some point leave. Of course he will. What I mean is that once he has left, we will continue to play in red. Him leaving on some random date in the future would not suddenly mean we play in blue and we get our badge and nickname back.

I'm not arguing that there is a special relationship between the fans and a club, but unfortunately unless we are prepared to buy season tickets costing at least £3,000 a season (all 18,000 of us) then that special relationship is not going to pay the bills.

So we have to find other ways of raising cash and if our future is secured by playing in red and wearing a Dragon, I can live with that.

As said above changing the name would be a step too far but that is not on the table and frankly I think the Malaysians know it would be counter-productive to do so.

As for the day when Tan leaves I will point to when Sam Hammam went, the first thing that was changed was the playing badge, so why would it be any different when Tan goes?

The name would be a red line I have no problem with saying that.

So for you, it is just the club name that is "sacred". Fair enough. But for some of us, the whole club identity is. That club identity includes playing play and being known as the bluebirds.

The Malaysians are not daft

Well it seems to be as if they did not fully realise how much a reaction these plans would have from the fans.

My attitude is based on what is on the table now. Changing the colour of the home kit to red and using a Dragon as the badge.

So out of curiosity, why is the club name any different to that? It is all part of the club identity.

Making up or assuming anything else is not helpful as that is not the deal which is on offer.

But look down the line. If our owners are willing to change so much of our clubs identity now, then who knows what follows? Annis has already said there was no guarantee that the club name won't be meddled with. And we have seen similar things happen in leagues around the world, including in Britain.

Tony, I am stunned by your opinion.

Are they not black mailing us ?

Are they not dictating to us ?

Are they not messing with Our Colours/Badge/Nick name and could even later change our name ?

They dont care one bit about Cardiff City and that is a fact, VT doesnt even like football.
In fact we are just a toy/game to him.

Annis black mail/dictating are strong words you could also discribe the Malaysian stance as their 'terms' for an investment which will secure our future.

We do-not know if they want to change our name in the future and certainly that is not on the table now. The club name is a red line (no pun intended) because if they change the name then we are no longer Cardiff City fans any more.

However, we have sponsorship on our shirts, in our stadium well just about every where really so why not utilise the shirt colour? After all red is the colour of Wales and we are the Capital of Wales. We already have to great big frigging Dragons in our stadium behind the Canton and Family Stands, so why not have it as a badge?

We will be rewarded with a secure future if we do, so why don't we get behind this and get on with becoming one of the biggest clubs in the UK?

The name would be a red line I have no problem with saying that.

So for you, it is just the club name that is "sacred". Fair enough. But for some of us, the whole club identity is. That club identity includes playing play and being known as the bluebirds.

The Malaysians are not daft

Well it seems to be as if they did not fully realise how much a reaction these plans would have from the fans.

My attitude is based on what is on the table now. Changing the colour of the home kit to red and using a Dragon as the badge.

So out of curiosity, why is the club name any different to that? It is all part of the club identity.

Making up or assuming anything else is not helpful as that is not the deal which is on offer.

But look down the line. If our owners are willing to change so much of our clubs identity now, then who knows what follows? Annis has already said there was no guarantee that the club name won't be meddled with. And we have seen similar things happen in leagues around the world, including in Britain.

TBH WelshBluebird I have already answered most of the points you have rehashed. I repeat making assumptions (which you continue to do) is not helpful and totally destroys your argument.

I have to add though that inferring that the Malaysians are 'daft' is a bit rich considering he is a $ billionaire

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

Im in the same mined as you! No one can forget our history ,its there every time we step out on the field of play.
But if we dont get money coming in we will never get to the prem, and we could end up like Portsmouth. Football has changed over the years and we have to change with it or stand aside. Cardiff City has always been blue and my heart is blue, and has been right back from the late 50s when I was a very young boy. BUT ! ask me would I rather wear RED and keep Cardiff Alive or wear Blue and see Cardiff Struggle like we have done for years, and then finaly go under I know what I would do. I would wear the Red , But I would still be Blue inside, and Cardiff City would still keep there history alive every time they play. But What happens to our history if Cardiff go under ? They will talk about it in clubs and pubs for years , till finaly everyone forgets Cardiff even had a team.

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

Im in the same mined as you! No one can forget our history ,its there every time we step out on the field of play.
But if we dont get money coming in we will never get to the prem, and we could end up like Portsmouth. Football has changed over the years and we have to change with it or stand aside. Cardiff City has always been blue and my heart is blue, and has been right back from the late 50s when I was a very young boy. BUT ! ask me would I rather wear RED and keep Cardiff Alive or wear Blue and see Cardiff Struggle like we have done for years, and then finaly go under I know what I would do. I would wear the Red , But I would still be Blue inside, and Cardiff City would still keep there history alive every time they play. But What happens to our history if Cardiff go under ? They will talk about it in clubs and pubs for years , till finaly everyone forgets Cardiff even had a team.

I agree with what you say here entirely.

Our history will still be intact!

If we were to be liquidated what would our history be then....


f**k all.

I'm not happy with the idea of being red, however I'd rather it be red than f**k all!!

Im in the same mined as you! No one can forget our history ,its there every time we step out on the field of play.
But if we dont get money coming in we will never get to the prem, and we could end up like Portsmouth. Football has changed over the years and we have to change with it or stand aside. Cardiff City has always been blue and my heart is blue, and has been right back from the late 50s when I was a very young boy. BUT ! ask me would I rather wear RED and keep Cardiff Alive or wear Blue and see Cardiff Struggle like we have done for years, and then finaly go under I know what I would do. I would wear the Red , But I would still be Blue inside, and Cardiff City would still keep there history alive every time they play. But What happens to our history if Cardiff go under ? They will talk about it in clubs and pubs for years , till finaly everyone forgets Cardiff even had a team.

Great post that.

I would wear red to keep the club alive but inside I would be blue.

TBH WelshBluebird I have already answered most of the points you have rehashed. I repeat making assumptions (which you continue to do) is not helpful and totally destroys your argument.

I have to add though that inferring that the Malaysians are 'daft' is a bit rich considering he is a $ billionaire

So you are allowed to randomly put a line in the sand at where you feel would be going too far, yet I can't?
You feel every but the name is fine to be changed. Fair enough, that is your opinion.
But a lot of us disagree and think changing a large amount of our club identity is too far.

I did not imply they are daft. But I do think they should have seen the backlash against the plans coming, and it is a bit of a joke how it is all come about (leaked via a message board and then explained to some fans in a hastily arranged meeting, still with the club not officially saying anything at all to the rest of us). And I don't see what him being very successful has to do with it - everyone makes mistakes at some point.

Again sorry for the double post.

You suggest that me making assumptions about what may happen in the future is not helpful. Why? It is a genuine concern of many of us who oppose these changes. If our owners are so willing to throw away so much of our clubs identity, then I see no reason why they would not be willing to throw away more of it (such as our club name). While my comment about Malaysia Welsh Dragons FC was obviously sarcastic in nature, I don't see why a name change is so seemingly out of your imagination when (as I have said), so much of our identity is already being thrown away. Yes it may not be on the cards right now, but if we allow these changes to go ahead, then it may be - and then it will be too late.

If we could get a guarantee from VT that he will not try to change the name of our club in exchange for more money, then I think a lot of people will at least partly accept the current changes. But so far - we have no had that, and indeed have been told that such a guarantee could not be given.